"THe Development Team Does Not Currently Have Plans Too..."

[FrankReynolds]

Except fun is subjective, so your argument is invalid cuz it's your opinion about what's fun for you.

So yes, change the requirement isn't fun for me, nor anyone not having the same POV as you.

Personally, I don't find "doing the content" in FFXI fun at all. No matter what you do, delve2, einherjar, higher lv BC, all you ever do is engage TP WS repeat. There aren't much variation toward how you control your character.

Further more, there are no real difficulty exist in this game.....I don't have an issue playing my character and let it function properly, but whether you can clear the content or not completely depend on who you play with.......so far I've yet to experience any SoA content that's very, very hard with right pt setup/ppl.

IMO, fun in FFXI came from spending a long time work toward a goal and finally finish the goal. I don't have fun doing easy content for 3hr, spam TP and WS repeatly for so-so reward. I have more fun doing easy content for months and years, spam TP and WS repeatly for the best weapon in this game. It doesn't matter if I'm fighting Ein mobs or Yorcia NM, all I ever do is engage click TP macro click WS macro, I see no difference in them.

IMO fun doesn't just came from the reward, but also the time and effort you've spent on that reward, they came together. If SE deliver 20 mythics and 2 ergon to my inbox, I sure wouldn't feel as happy as building one myself.

I have fun spending months and years toward a goal and get them, and I believe it's human nature to feel that way in game or irl.

If your opinion toward fun is "gimme stuff and that's fun" then I have nothing to say, it's your opinion toward fun but not mine, and I wouldn't change my opinion toward fun as well.

That being said, at least I've respected your definition of fun. It seems that all you ever do in this forum is downplay anyone's opinion that's different from yours by labeling them into something else and make your subjective opinion legit, in reality it's not.

I'm sure that you realize by now that I am in no way asking for SE to just give me stuff. The fact that you keep bringing up that argument is getting a little old. As for me thinking that my opinion is better than yours, well.. That's like just your opinion man...

You basically just broke the whole game down into complete meaninglessness as far as actually playing goes. If the only form of fun or achievement that you can conceive of is waiting in line for a really long time to obtain an item, I might suggest the DMV as an endless source of enjoyment for you.

[Afania]

You basically just broke the whole game down into complete meaninglessness as far as actually playing goes.

Not really, the whole point of MMO is to create a virtual world, and most ppl tend to seek accomplishment in a world, fact.

The only accomplishment you can have in this virtual world is getting items and parse higher....what other accomplishment you can have in FFXI? Nothing.

Thus it's only logical to have fun via getting accomplishment in FFXI. Technically, I find trying different pt setup and strategy to beat a content is fun as well, but with all that cookie cutter setup and strategy being used everywhere(and if you don't use cookie cutter setup the entire server would /blist you), it's hard to have fun from that aspect.

[FrankReynolds]

Not really, the whole point of MMO is to create a virtual world, and most ppl tend to seek accomplishment in a world, fact.

Accomplishment doesn't necessarily mean gear. Go to youtube and see literally thousands of videos of people soloing monsters that they don't need drops from, just to see if they can pull it off. A lot of times the gear is a means to an end, not the goal.

In your case the goal seems to be being the cool kid with the mythic, so it would hurt your feelings if all the other kids had one.

For me the goal is to do better at everything I do. I don't really care if everyone has one as long as I can perform better at my job.

The only accomplishment you can have in this virtual world is getting items and parse higher....what other accomplishment you can have in FFXI? Nothing.

I soloed some AAs. I felt pretty accomplished. I mean I don't have a special item to prove it to everyone who checks me in Port Jeuno, but then I don't really feel like I need plaque that says "Winner" to prove I'm good. It was a waste of merit points in respect to material rewards. I could have gotten far more items by just going with a group. But, Just winning is all the achievement I needed. They didn't need to give me an exclusive item that no one else could have to convince me to do it. I did it because it was fun and challenging. Go take a poke around youtube. A lot of people do that sort of thing for fun. You should try garnering some recognition through clever game play instead of trophies. It feels a lot better to be recognized for how you play than to be recognized for how much exclusive crap you hoard.

[Afania]

Accomplishment doesn't necessarily mean gear. Go to youtube and see literally thousands of videos of people soloing monsters that they don't need drops from, just to see if they can pull it off. A lot of times the gear is a means to an end, not the goal.

In your case the goal seems to be being the cool kid with the mythic, so it would hurt your feelings if all the other kids had one.

For me the goal is to do better at everything I do. I don't really care if everyone has one as long as I can perform better at my job.

Again you're twisting my motivation and play the "you just wanna be special" card again, and put your irrelevant subjective POV toward me in an argument. I guess that's the only skill you're better at AFAIK, if that is even a skill lol.

Also your logic is contradicting yourself.

In FFXI you can't "do better at something" than others because battle system is so simplistic, most of your performance are completely based on gear sets, macro/tools and luck. If A SAM uses same gear set as B SAM, and same tools or both use default macro, the gap between their output is usually less than 3%~5%. Your performance is limited by in game mechanics and values on gears mostly.

This is a MMORPG without action element, this isn't a skill based game. Idk how you can "perform better than everyone else" if you're wearing the same gear as them, unless you can hack into the game system and change your character stat, lol.

As far as the definition of gear goes, IMO it's the reward of your goal. Of course you're free to set a goal like soloing the monster, but that doesn't change my POV about fun/accomplishment and such. It only shows that you're trying to apply your subjective opinion on everyone else and downplay other's opinion if they're different.

I soloed some AAs. I felt pretty accomplished. I mean I don't have a special item to prove it to everyone who checks me in Port Jeuno, but then I don't really feel like I need plaque that says "Winner" to prove I'm good.

I'm gonna play the "you just wanna be special" card like you as well

You feel accomplished because majority of the player doesn't/can't do it, that's why you feel accomplished.

If a MNK can solo AA wearing lv 60 gears by ONLY engage TP WS, you probably won't feel as accomplished anymore

And what makes your char different from his? Gears.....and maybe the job you choose.

So your sense of "accomplishment" is completely based on.......gears, and being the cool kid in town

No matter how I see it, I don't see how your POV of fun is better than mine, it's fundamentally the same thing.

[FrankReynolds]

Again you're twisting my motivation and play the "you just wanna be special" card again, and put your irrelevant subjective POV toward me in an argument. I guess that's the only skill you're better at AFAIK, if that is even a skill lol.

Also your logic is contradicting yourself.

In FFXI you can't "do better at something" than others because battle system is so simplistic, most of your performance are completely based on gear sets, macro/tools and luck. If A SAM uses same gear set as B SAM, and same tools or both use default macro, the gap between their output is usually less than 3%~5%. Your performance is limited by in game mechanics and values on gears mostly.

This is a MMORPG without action element, this isn't a skill based game. Idk how you can "perform better than everyone else" if you're wearing the same gear as them, unless you can hack into the game system and change your character stat, lol.

As far as the definition of gear goes, IMO it's the reward of your goal. Of course you're free to set a goal like soloing the monster, but that doesn't change my POV about fun/accomplishment and such. It only shows that you're trying to apply your subjective opinion on everyone else and downplay other's opinion if they're different.

And yet, I'll bet if someone said that you were only good because of your mythic, you would be happy to tell them that it's actually all skill and how great you were even before you had a mythic.

I'm gonna play the "you just wanna be special" card like you as well

You feel accomplished because majority of the player doesn't/can't do it, that's why you feel accomplished.

If a MNK can solo AA wearing lv 60 gears by ONLY engage TP WS, you probably won't feel as accomplished anymore

Of course not. Then it wouldn't be difficult. You re confusing difficult with something that just takes a long time. There is a difference. Learn it.

TBH it didn't really occur to me that other people may or may not be able to do it. If I actually cared about that aspect, I'd be demanding that they add special items for people who solo it.

And what makes your char different from his? Gears.....and maybe the job you choose.

So your sense of "accomplishment" is completely based on.......gears, and being the cool kid in town

My character is different because I play it. People play differently and with varying degrees of skill. I know you want to pretend that the game is just so easy and everyone is equally skilled, but the internet is littered with stories of RME players being out parsed, out cured, out enfeebled etc. by players with NQ gear. You are just plain wrong. There are thousands of people out there who don't know nearly as much as you or I about how to play the game. I have beaten stuff with two song bards and thieves and then lost to the same content with 4 song bards and samurais.

I'm willing to bet that there are things that even you don't know about how the game works and I'm also willing to bet that you have screwed up and used the wrong WS, Spell or ability from time to time.

You are not perfect and neither am I or anyone else. Having gear does not mean you have beat the game. Stop pretending that gear is the only determining factor in win or lose. Gear makes things easier if you know how to use it. It doesn't automatically make you good.

No matter how I see it, I don't see how your POV of fun is better than mine, it's fundamentally the same thing.

My point of view benefits a larger number of people.

[Afania]

And yet, I'll bet if someone said that you were only good because of your mythic, you would be happy to tell them that it's actually all skill and how great you were even before you had a mythic.

No cuz I know it isn't real "skill" that make me good at a job, but the gear....not just mythic(it's only one gear out of many), but mostly because the quality and amount of gears I have.

Of course not. Then it wouldn't be difficult. You re confusing difficult with something that just takes a long time. There is a difference. Learn it.

TBH it didn't really occur to me that other people may or may not be able to do it. If I actually cared about that aspect, I'd be demanding that they add special items for people who solo it.

Your definition of difficulty doesn't matter in this argument.

I can say "TBH it didn't really occur to me that other ppl may or may not have mythic, I just want finish a long term goal" when you twist my motivation into something else as well.

It doesn't matter how you really think, the point is that you did something not everyone can/would, and you feel accomplished. I made a decision to grind something not everyone would choose to do, and I feel accomplished as well.

This is fundamentally the same thing, if you can twist my motivation into "wanna be a cool kid in town", so I can do that too.

My character is different because I play it. People play differently and with varying degrees of skill. I know you want to pretend that the game is just so easy and everyone is equally skilled, but the internet is littered with stories of RME players being out parsed, out cured, out enfeebled etc. by players with NQ gear. You are just plain wrong. There are thousands of people out there who don't know nearly as much as you or I about how to play the game. I have beaten stuff with two song bards and thieves and then lost to the same content with 4 song bards and samurais.

I'm willing to bet that there are things that even you don't know about how the game works and I'm also willing to bet that you have screwed up and used the wrong WS, Spell or ability from time to time.

You are not perfect and neither am I or anyone else. Having gear does not mean you have beat the game. Stop pretending that gear is the only determining factor in win or lose. Gear makes things easier if you know how to use it. It doesn't automatically make you good.

What you're saying isn't "skill", what you're saying is experience and pt organization. Experience helps makes better decision but it's not equal to skill, pt organization helps bringing the team together If I give my character to someone else and tell them which button to click in X situation, they can perform nearly the same. FFXI simply doesn't require skill, at least not as much as games like SF4.

A lot of relic owners parse lower than others mostly* because of wrong gear sets in wrong situation, which is still about gears. A lot of NQ players claiming "I parse higher than RME owners" either running in very good gear sets in other slot or use tools for faster macro speed. You can try to outparse a ilv119 RME owner using proper gear sets in lv 75 gear, it's gonna be very hard unless that RME owner is downright terrible at clicking WS macro.

I also have to point out, many players sometimes outparse RME owners due to luck or having more experience in said content(so they know how to build better gear sets for that specific content), then they act as if they just play that much better than another RME owner after winning parse one or two times, then they brag on the internet over and over about that. That doesn't necessary make skill a bigger factor affecting the performance in this game.

Gear sets, macro click speed/tools, experience and luck is the only factor affecting your performance in this game, there's a limit on how much you can improve.

[FrankReynolds]

As for the rarity argument:

Rarity keeps people playing - handing out everything and making everything beyond easy drives people way a lot quicker because it's like getting a job starting as a janitor then becoming the CEO in 2 hours and then being fired an hour later only for the process to cycle with the next janitor that joins the company.

There's nothing..to truly work for when you're handed it. This is why Yoshida over on the XIV side admitted to designing that game with the knowledge of people will quit for up to 2 months after wearing out the content in a new patch because of how accessible it is and how easy it is to gear out with no rare items to obtain. You want some items to be rare in an MMO, it's not your single player game where rare items make no sense other than a forced grind.

I'm sure that nobody wants to read this entire thread at this point so I'll fill you in. No one asked for mythics to be handed out. We were talking about things like double ichor campaign days or removing the three person requirement from einherjar.

For some reason this afania person is okay with people spamming the events on multiple mules, but thinks the game would somehow be ruined if you could get the weapons even one day faster through double ichor campaigns and the like. I've been having some fun with it.

No cuz I know it isn't real "skill" that make me good at a job, but the gear....not just mythic(it's only one gear out of many), but mostly because the quality and amount of gears I have.

Look, I'm sure you aren't a bad player. In fact, I'm sure that you are quite good. But what you just said... I just...

Your definition of difficulty doesn't matter in this argument.

Okay... so is now the time when we just start posting gifs?

I can say "TBH it didn't really occur to me that other ppl may or may not have mythic, I just want finish a long term goal" when you twist my motivation into something else as well.

You could say that. You could say a lot of things that just plain aren't true. But you've already claimed to know how many people are making / own mythics and explained your motivation for making one in this thread so we would all know you were lying. You might as well say you ride a unicorn to your construction job on mars every day.

It doesn't matter how you really think, the point is that you did something not everyone can/would, and you feel accomplished. I made a decision to grind something not everyone would choose to do, and I feel accomplished as well.

This is fundamentally the same thing, if you can twist my motivation into "wanna be a cool kid in town", so I can do that too.

Mine took 30 minutes and I didn't get a mythic for it, but yeah. Basically the exact same thing.

So they should make mythics drop in AA fights? Is that what you're saying? /s

What you're saying isn't "skill", what you're saying is experience and pt organization. Experience helps makes better decision but it's not equal to skill, pt organization helps bringing the team together If I give my character to someone else and tell them which button to click in X situation, they can perform nearly the same. FFXI simply doesn't require skill, at least not as much as games like SF4.

skill noun
: the ability to do something that comes from training, experience, or practice

A lot of relic owners parse lower than others mostly* because of wrong gear sets in wrong situation, which is still about gears. A lot of NQ players claiming "I parse higher than RME owners" either running in very good gear sets in other slot or use tools for faster macro speed. You can try to outparse a ilv119 RME owner using proper gear sets in lv 75 gear, it's gonna be very hard unless that RME owner is downright terrible at clicking WS macro.

One might say that you need..... wait for it...... skill?

I also have to point out, many players sometimes outparse RME owners due to luck or having more experience in said content(so they know how to build better gear sets for that specific content), then they act as if they just play that much better than another RME owner after winning parse one or two times, then they brag on the internet over and over about that. That doesn't necessary make skill a bigger factor affecting the performance in this game.

See the above definition of skill.

Gear sets, macro click speed/tools, experience and luck is the only factor affecting your performance in this game, there's a limit on how much you can improve.

See the above definition of skill.