[dev1210] Why Not Merit Weaponskills ??

[Afania]

Analhelm is making the classic, unsupported "it's good design and a good idea because that's the way it is" argument and mixing it with a bunch of logical fallacies. Par for the course!

Alhanelem's argument isn't "unsupported arguement", it's just based on different design fundamental as yours. The point of defending for merit point system is to mimic how real life works, which is "a master scientist can't be a master baseball player". Without merit point system, current FFXI game system fail to simulate such facet of real life because it's much easier to obtain very good gear and skill to be good at multiple jobs, as long as you have time to invest.

You think Alhanelem's argument isn't logical because you don't give a damn about "real life/role playing aspect" in FFXI, while me and Alhanelem view "real life /role playing aspect" more important than anything else. It doesn't make his argument "unsupported".

If one day census shows that every_single_player do exactly same merit, then maybe "merit point is useless design" is a legit argument....once everyone makes the same choice there's no reason to give the player option to choose anymore. Until then players still make different choices, which is fact.

I don't need an arbitrary limit to force me to make decisions. I've decided on my own what classes are worth leveling and maxing out and they are different from the ones you've chosen. If other people have the time and resources to max out everything then that's no skin off my nose. It doesn't cheapen any of my own accomplishments. Why would it?

This only applies if every player has same amount of play time. Basically, a player that plays 24/7 can master way more jobs in FFXI than another player that plays less. Because of that, current system can't simulate rl properly. Irl everyone only has 24hr a day, no matter who you are you can't have more time than another person. Therefore you can't master more jobs/skills than another person that's equally smart because you don't have more time than him, that you must make a choice between wanting to be a scientist or an artist. In FFXI, An arbitrary limit is the only way to simulate such real life aspect.

Unless you want worse design such as weekly currency cap/gear cap like FFXIV, merit point system is the best we can get. If you have better idea to make a game with stronger role playing experience, make a suggestion. But "I'm unique because I say different things in /p" or "I'm unique because I invest my time on different jobs from others" doesn't count.

And no, "I can be what I want thus I can master 10 jobs instead of 1 because that's what I want" also doesn't count. Role playing isn't about total freedom, nor a race about who has more playtime.

Torclever is terrible, and GSD has nothing else available, and Scythe is pretty much a utility weapon at this point. As your job is a DD, how do you expect to perform your job as a DD to the fullest of your ability without having a solid DD WS? Is that just it, you don't expect to perform to the fullest of your ability, and you settle for mediocrity? Not trying to be insulting, but that's a really terrible example to give for the benefit of your argument.

Since "role playing element" should come first, then the right way to solve this issue is to buff existing/2nd best WS so they can catch up, and keep the role playing element in this game. Now you're saying merit point system/role playing element shouldn't exist because SE didn't do a good job balancing it, but it should be other way around.

Furthermore, I'd argue it actually is quite a crippling system. Lets take a hypothetical mage only character that decides to level a DD job, lets say Rng. Being mage only, they've stuck their merits into Mnd, Int, Club, Staff, defensive skills, and idk, sword or something for a Rdm, as well as 5/5ing the corresponding WSs. Cool beans. Now lets bring that Rng to a VD fight. They're missing 12 Str/Agi merits, 8 weapon merits, and a stronger WS (barring relic, ignore enmity for this example.) That may not sound like much, but that's giving them a lower fStr, lower accuracy, less WS damage, and less RAtt. Without removing merits from their mage jobs, they're stuck without these benefits. I'm not going to say this Rng is now crippled and incapable of doing said content. But should they really be hindered for their choices in merits? Is that really something you believe is fair?

This is actually not a very convincing example for ppl defending for merit point system For ppl like me and Alhanelem who value role playing element more than anything else, the above example is exactly what we wanted: a player who choose to be a pro mage with high MND/INT/club will be bad at archery.

This isn't a matter of "fair", it's not like this game is PVP game and if you deal less dmg than another RNG you get low ranking. This is life, a mage that's smart and spend entire life studying and get smarter (higher INT)shouldn't be strong enough to deal good dmg with a bow(lower STR). If you want the game to be perfectly "fair", then there's no point to play a RPG at all. Games like FTG or RTS are perfectly "fair" that character performance is separate by skill, not stat. Games like RPG should let players live another life in a game though.

On the other hand, there's almost 0 reason to be perfectly "fair" in FFXI. A RNG without 12 STR/AGI merit and do less dmg, won't be in that much of a disadvantage. He can still complete the content. There's no PVP/recommendation/ranking system in FFXI either. He may have harder time to complete the content that needs RNG but that's only because current content design doesn't benefit mage main(nukers such as BLM SCH isn't main DD) so he can't get advantage as a mage main, not because there's a flaw in merit point system.

Anyways, it seems that ppl who doesn't want merit point system can't grasp the idea of role playing element in a MMORPG, so there's no point to argue about this subject anymore IMO. You can argue that role playing doesn't work in MMO because of optimization mentality, this is actually a whole other subject.....even games with 1 single class has balance issue with talent tree, all the time. There's always "most efficient/popular choice" in any RPG, even if the choice is there. However, last time when I play a game that removed choice making completely(FFXIV, I'm looking at you) I have 0 fun in it even if it's completely "fair" when it comes to class performance. I'd rather play a game with merit point system/talent tree and not perfectly balanced, than another game that removes such aspect completely. You can't ask the dev to erase the role playing element from a MMORPG just because merit point is hard to balance.