New weapons with higher base damage then relics

[Afania]

let see. i help over 7+ people with relic, before the dynamis update. you know the time when it was over 40+ members in your pt farming there. done 1 emp for me 50% solo/duo, help 4+ for g/f. duoing. and help 1 on Mythic. yes the whole thing and iam not doing that anymore>.>

Wow that's a pretty bad comparsion. Spent 600 hours of your time helping a friend building their REM, is different from spending 600 hours building YOUR REM. I don't even know if you really spend 600 hour or not....you can only spend 60hr helping friends and come telling everyone "I helped 10 REM", but let's assume you spent 600hr helping friends.

The time you spend on helping your friend building their REM, it's spent on THEM, to do your friend a favor. If SE make their REM shit, the time you spend on them, the favor you did still exist. If you helped a friend getting an item, you planned to invest your time on your friend(not REM) to begin with, thus whether REM is good or bad makes 0 difference. You helped your friend to do them a favor, now that their weapons are shit, do you think they'd suddenly pretend your never help them?

You spent time on your friends, knowing the result and outcome before you spend your time, and you made your choice based on the result and outcome. You may be helping friend because they've helped you, or you expected them to help you. Basically doing them a favor. Or maybe you just help them because you feel happy to help friends and see them happy, in that case you still get what you expected to get.

Ppl spending 150M 200M 600M on REM, they did not know the result and outcome before they spend their time. They thought it's gonna be the best for years or even until server shut down, based on how SE deal with REM back in the past. Suddenly SE changed the policy and all the REM owners were tricked. That's the real issue and the main difference. I bet 90% of REM owners won't spend 150M 200M 600M on REM if they knew SoA weapons would destory it.

If you spend 600hr of time on a friend, and he promised to help you 600hr after you're done(and for some reason you believed it), then he depop and pretend not knowing you after he got his help, call me if you don't feel being cheated and angry about it.

[Peepiopi]

fun fact.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/relic
Something that has survived the passage of time, especially an object or custom whose original culture has disappeared.
an artifact surviving from the past.
something kept as a remembrance or treasured for its past associations; keepsake.
old items from another time.

no comment...

Lol. So much truth.. A.K.A "Trophies". There is nothing wrong with trophies.

Where's the incentive when gear's going to be replaced every few months? That's not how this game has been working for eleven years, why fix something that's not broken? There are no long term goals anymore, the majority of older events are now pointless to do - so you do Delve to get Delve gear and weapons, to do what? More Delve? Or just stand around looking pretty until the next update hits and you need to go through all that again?

Perhaps that the lack of change over the last 11 years is what has made FFXI fall so far behind other popular MMOs. The new Director is trying to make more effort to improve the the game with quality of life changes, emphasize fresh game content, while making older content more accessible but not required for progression. If you don't like the direction the game is going, then quit! It's very simple.

I promise you that any GOOD game director will pursue new subscribership rather than focus on catering to a stubborn few. Figuratively assuming that new players "probably would" feel the same way as you if only they dredged through the snow uphill both ways just like you did just makes you seem stubborn and set in your ways.

Also. There is PLENTY of stuff to do in this game. If you feel that you have already done everything there is to do in the game, and you do not have any interest in waiting for upcoming patches, then perhaps it really is time for you to take a break indefinitely.

[Afania]

You're overestimating the number of people who you think that would quit the game over something like this, and you're underestimating the profit value of making end game and story content more accessible to a greater number of people. I'd venture to say that any one who quits over something as silly as this will easily be replaced, even if it's an older game. Believe it or not, there are still plenty of people just starting the game. My LS has a recruited a bunch of them.

My LS recruited a bunch of new/returning player too, for years. And I've seen them come and go after playing for a few weeks/months without 2nd thought for years too, the reason why they leave, is never because they don't own a REM(why would not owning an REM bother you if you don't even hit lv 99). Do you honestly think that's good profit to please those ppl, by sacrificing players that would play for years and log in everyday just to build a REM?

The "S**tstorm" is all in your head, and in the heads of a very small vocal crowd here. Most of the players I've encountered in the game are still having fun, and don't care about RMEs being a little weaker than Delve weapons.

That's not a very accurate observation, it's biased. From what I've seen, there are different reaction toward this issue, and it's probably something like this:

1. I don't care, I can't get an REM, I don't have one, and I'm happy that I don't need one anyways.

Those ppl are majority, I agree. But they're either gonna keep playing even if REM still relevant, or feel streessed that after 2 months they realized only 4 song BRD or Oatixur MNK gets delve boss + NM run pt invite. And if they don't do delve boss+NM run, they're farming 5~7k plasm a run when boss+NM pt farming 80k plasm a run.

The gap still exist, and it always exist. Stop pretending killing REM save the world.

2. I don't care, because I shit out a Mythic in 2 weeks and I make gil 20x faster than avg.

Those ppl either are extremely elite/hardcore(thus even lower population than REM owner that needs 3 months to 3 years to get one), or fishbot/buys gil.

3. I own a REM, and I'm pissed. But I'm still playing, because it's getting an update later. But I'll be careful before I invest time on hard to obtain gears. I feel unmotivated to do any new content, what's the point to do it, if everytime I get an item and it's garbage after 3 months?

This is the real majority middle class players that would pay money more than group 1 ppl. They used to own multiple account, and do events when they can, and try hard to have good performance. Now that they feel unmotivated, even if they still pay and play, doesn't mean they'll be as involved as it used to be. They'll just become another batch of come and go players after getting face slapped.

4. I'm not happy and I quit.


If you ask me, I'd say group 3 and 4 add together> group 2, and there are 100 ways to please group 1 players without killing REM.

[nyheen]

ya um btw i do have my own? and i never ask or care about getting help. i done it because i was bored and wanted something to do? not everyone does the, "i helped you so now you need to help me back" i got my fun out of it.

there people still butthurt about windows 98 being outclass by windows 7.
vcr outclass by blu ray.
my 400$ ps1 being outclass by a ps3.
now delve weapons/AH taking over, get with the times grandpa!

[Afania]

Perhaps that the lack of change over the last 11 years is what has made FFXI fall so far behind other popular MMOs. The new Director is trying to make more effort to improve the the game with quality of life changes, emphasize fresh game content, while making older content more accessible but not required for progression. If you don't like the direction the game is going, then quit! It's very simple.

I promise you that any GOOD game director will pursue new subscribership rather than focus on catering to a stubborn few. Figuratively assuming that new players "probably would" feel the same way as you if only they dredged through the snow uphill both ways just like you did just makes you seem stubborn and set in your ways.

Lol, you have no idea about MMO industry and how it works. A GOOD game director keep sub as large as possible, instead of killing it.

One fact about MMO, unless FFXI gets a relaunch, something like FFXI 2.0, with brand new graphic, marketing, game mechanics, new UI and everything, you're not gonna get new players. Killing REM and make all gears shit every 3 months will never get new players. New players doesn't even give a shit how endgame gear works in a 11 year old MMO. They're going to play new MMOs on the market, not a 11 year old MMO.

[Tamoa]

Perhaps that the lack of change over the last 11 years is what has made FFXI fall so far behind other popular MMOs. The new Director is trying to make more effort to improve the the game with quality of life changes, emphasize fresh game content, while making older content more accessible but not required for progression. If you don't like the direction the game is going, then quit! It's very simple.

I promise you that any GOOD game director will pursue new subscribership rather than focus on catering to a stubborn few. Figuratively assuming that new players "probably would" feel the same way as you if only they dredged through the snow uphill both ways just like you did just makes you seem stubborn and set in your ways.

Please enlighten me to which other MMOs are out there, that have been going for 11 years, with a comparable number of players who're actually willing to PAY to be able to play.

"If you don't like it, then quit." - Don't you see that while the reason people are quitting, doesn't affect you personally, the fact that people are quitting WILL eventually affect you. Less players = less people to do things with. Less subscriptions = less money for SE = less work put into FFXI. That shouldn't be so hard to grasp, I reckon.

I'll guarantee you that more people will quit over SoA than there will be new players joining because of SoA.

By the way you never answered the question I added in my previous post.

[Afania]

ya um btw i do have my own? and i never ask or care about getting help. i done it because i was bored and wanted something to do? not everyone does the, "i helped you so now you need to help me back" i got my fun out of it.

there people still butthurt about windows 98 being outclass by windows 7.
vcr outclass by blu ray.
my 400$ ps1 being outclass by a ps3.
now delve weapons/AH taking over, get with the times grandpa!

Or maybe you just help them because you feel happy to help friends and see them happy, in that case you still get what you expected to get.

I already said you may help just because you feel happy? You helped your friends for fun, expected to have fun, and you already got fun you were looking for. So why compare you help friend with ppl build REM?

Some ppl invest time on REM, not because it's fun to build REM. They build REM to use it, now they can't use it. Do you honestly think that's the same case as you?

If you invest your money on a company, then company bankrupted because producers made bad decisions and now you invest your money on nothing, aren't you feeling pissed?

Also, I invested money on PS1 to play PS1 game(and knowing PS2 and 3 gonna come out after 10 years), PS3 can't play PS1 game, just like how blue ray can't play VCR, they aren't even the same issue.

Invest money on PS1 for PS1 game, knowing PS1 would get replaced 5 years later, is different from invest money on a weapon because SE planned to make it relevant until server shut down. You knew PS1 would be dead, but you didn't know REM would. And PS3 isn't replacing PS2 and 1 anyways, new models can't read PS2 game if I remember correctly.

[Afania]

Please enlighten me to which other MMOs are out there, that have been going for 11 years, with a comparable number of players who're actually willing to PAY to be able to play.

"If you don't like it, then quit." - Don't you see that while the reason people are quitting, doesn't affect you personally, the fact that people are quitting WILL eventually affect you. Less players = less people to do things with. Less subscriptions = less money for SE = less work put into FFXI. That shouldn't be so hard to grasp, I reckon.

I'll guarantee you that more people will quit over SoA than there will be new players joining because of SoA.

By the way you never answered the question I added in my previous post.

Honestly I'm tired of seeing ppl saying "Game's better this way, because WoW's like that too, and WoW is No.1 MMO!"

Maybe those ppl should go work on a MMO, maybe they'll make a bunch of money selling their games!

Honestly, if making MMO is this easy, we won't see MMOs going F2P or shut down every year. Those ppl just wanted the game they want, without thinking about the consequences. Killing REM has way more negative impact on FFXI than REM owners getting face slapped. And you can already see why subs are dropping. I've got friends who still play, but just refuse to do any long term grind event because they don't want to get face slapped again. In XI if you don't have a long term grind goal, it's way too easy to quit when new games are out or rl gets busy.

[Demon6324236]

I love how people come here & say they like how the game is changing, to be like every single other MMO, rather than staying special and unique, the way people liked it for the last decade, and the reason we stayed all this time. Now that things are changing, people are leaving, will players who like other MMOs stay? Well lets see, there are only 5 new ones every year right? Almost all of them go free to play some months after because WoW is the only one that has worked on that system it seems, and yet, they want this game to be ruined as well. Thank you people for coming to this game and being happy with how its changing, rather than going to one of the other 15 games like this is becoming, so our unique game is crippled.

[Karbuncle]

Lol. So much truth.. A.K.A "Trophies". There is nothing wrong with trophies.

I have plenty of trophy items, Ascalon, Bano Del Sol, Rain Hat, Spelunker's Hat... All of them taking some level of difficulty to obtain due to their rarity, I got them full well knowing they were useless Trophy Items. There's a difference between obtaining the single most difficult item in the game to obtain by time or gil (R/M preupdate) and the Rather time/Gil consuming but obtainable items (REM after update) and a "Trophy Item". One is Obtained knowing its uselessness but rarity, the other is obtained with the idea it will remain best in slot as it has been for 11 years prior to this expansion.

Tamoa hit the nail on the head when she said you're so caught up in your own narrow vision you can't even begin to sorta comprehend the type of points we're trying to make here. In your head, Its fine cause you're not effected, right? I could likely dig up threads since SoA Started and find more than hundreds of "I Quit" responses/threads, or "I'm moving to FFXIV" threads/responses... and We all know Forum users don't make up the entire population, so while we can assume a large number of people are okay with this, we also have to assume a large number of folk are going to quit/did quit because of it as well.

The "Vocal Minority" argument has never really held water i mean, that excuse sure worked fo Jay Wilson and Diablo 3 right? What happened to him? Oh, He was fired from the position. Point is just because you aren't effected doesn't mean that the reality is the population at times is dipping well into the triple digit range, something I've never seen in my 11years in this game. When you can /sea all and see 600~ people online, Somethings wrong, when before SoA i would still see 1k+.

Perhaps that the lack of change over the last 11 years is what has made FFXI fall so far behind other popular MMOs. The new Director is trying to make more effort to improve the the game with quality of life changes, emphasize fresh game content, while making older content more accessible but not required for progression.

What "Popular MMOs"? Srsly. Every MMO i've seen released in the last decade short of WoW has become a dead ghost town in less than a Month, any of them that were Pay to play quickly went FTP and now have at best a small hardcore crowd... Not dissimilar to FFXI. But its clear if people want WoW, they'd play WoW, which is why all these WoW-killer clones fail.

I promise you that any GOOD game director will pursue new subscribership rather than focus on catering to a stubborn few.

Normally, you could be right, But FFXI is an 11 year old game and Square Enix is about to launch a new MMO, do you honestly think they're going to try and bring people to FFXI rather than FFXIV? Sure they my want you on both as an ideal situation but i guaranf**kintee you they want people on FFXIV so they can repair their reputation on the flop... This director is trying to keep us entertained in the short term in hopes the majority jump to FFXIV, and the remaining incompetent population struggle to beat the content so they can slow down on pumping it out... Why do you think it was so hard to everyone but an elite few when they know the game has been low-man/casual for years now? promise you.

Figuratively assuming that new players "probably would" feel the same way as you if only they dredged through the snow uphill both ways just like you did just makes you seem stubborn and set in your ways.

Sure, lets get those new players excited to hit level 99 through leech burning or non-existant exp parties so they can do nothing but Delve over and over again in an ever dwindling population where their Delve armor is going to be replaced before they have time to fully level all their subjobs.... Cause I know I can barely contain my excitement for that. Meaningless easily replaced victories and only 1 event of real importance to do over and over and over and over!

I mean, thats so much better than them being able to look at armor/weapons, plan long term goals, look at well over 8 Different Endgame events of varying difficulty that can be done to obtain respectable and powerful armor than has longevity and meaning to it that isn't immediately replaced.

The point I'm trying to make is are you playing the devils advocate? Cause theres no way SOA made FFXI a better game, all it did was kill he need to do every other event in FFXI outside of Delve, when before Delve you at least had Skirmish, Reives, Salvage II, Nyzul II, Dynamis, Einherjar (1 and 2 for Abjuration!), Meeble Burrows Bat/Saur, Voidwatch, Legion, and some I can't recall... But the point is clear, Even with SOA pre-delve, the game was a better place.

Also. There is PLENTY of stuff to do in this game

Bull. Farking. sh*t. I named 10 events above that were all relevant endgame events that offered a variety of content difficulty and rewards. Can you name the 10 events that replaced them when Delve came out? I can't. I can give you a headstart though, Nyzul 2 is still useful for 1piece a set at best, Salvage II offers 1-2 pieces a set at best, but outside of those... its almost entirely dead. Some of the old events remain a shred of relevance due to 1 item, maybe, but thats not really long term goal, that "I'll devote 1 day to it and then move on to delve". Some Nakuul drops are good until you get their delve versions...

I'm all for new game design choices, thinking outside the box to improve the game, but alienating and sh*tting on the on long term constant and reliable upgrade for 11 years simply to bring in some item-level sh*t was not the way to do it. Sure release new and awesome weapons, maybe make them 1% better/worse, a point thats so small it wouldnt matter which you have, but the REM community makes up a decent portion of us, and while many will move on, many will not, and many will quit.

Do you not see this is bad for the population as a whole? Yes, FFXI will continue to live on for at least another year, but the population dropping no matter how slowly is not good, and adding chunks of quitting by crap like this isn't helping. This MMO does not advertise at all, and FFXIV is blown up everywhere. I'm telling you 99% of new players are just old returning players starting new. This game is getting almost no real new players, so your argument falls straight through all the cracks already in it.