Puppetmaster Demand Thread

[Kristal]

Actually the only things that really concerns me is Manuever duration and recast time. Everything else I stated has simply been on behalf of other concerns named by other Puppetmasters. The reason I'd like to bring attention to manuever recast timer is because after being a proud owner of Kenkonken, I can spam manuevers but it almost seems useless simply because I only have a 30 second window in which all three manuevers stay on. It's becomes so tedious spamming wind manuever 50 bajillion times on Ranger Pet and I think it could easily be fixed. If they can't extend the duration of manuevers, they can lower the recast time. If they made manuevers 3 second delay inbetween, we would instead have a 51 second window with three manuevers up and could quickly communicate with our pets if we need to switch to different manuevers. The 10 second recast delay was a handicap so that new puppetmasters wouldn't overload themselves quickly, I think it's time we take this handicap off... PUPs will learn how to work with lower recast timer on manuevers despite more frequent overlods if they over do it. We currently can't use our pet to our full potentially because we're spending all of our battle time just throwing up manuevers and it's a bit of a headache...

It's 40 seconds for 3 maneuvers, since the first starts at 0, not 10.

Splitting maneuvers into their own recast would probably be the easiest and most effective. You could set up 3 maneuvers in 2 seconds, as long as they are different ones. Stacking 3 same ones would still take 20 seconds.

[Annalise]

It's 40 seconds for 3 maneuvers, since the first starts at 0, not 10.

Splitting maneuvers into their own recast would probably be the easiest and most effective. You could set up 3 maneuvers in 2 seconds, as long as they are different ones. Stacking 3 same ones would still take 20 seconds.

With the new testing of how the heat sink works, this would be pretty remarkable. Especially for Sharpshot and Spiritreaver. You could quickly water -> ice or wind, then ice or wind, then ice or wind. The water will basically near always prevent an overload even if you are spamming maneuvers.

In fact for anyone who is having burden problems, I suggest you A) attach the heat sink if you don't have it already to ANY frame you are using, and B) learn how it works.

On topic with the OP's stuff, the only thing that I really care about is longer maneuver durations. I don't care how they decide to do it (e.g. based on level, increasing job traits, based on the animator, just overall increase, etc.) just that it is done.

[Kristal]

With the new testing of how the heat sink works, this would be pretty remarkable. Especially for Sharpshot and Spiritreaver. You could quickly water -> ice or wind, then ice or wind, then ice or wind. The water will basically near always prevent an overload even if you are spamming maneuvers.

You can do that already. For example on Spiritreaver, you could Dark > Water > Ice (as soon as Absorb-INT begins) > Ice > Ice (while nuke is casting). The first 3 maneuvers take 20 seconds, but with my suggestion it would only be 2 seconds, but the last two still take another 20 seconds either way.

[Annalise]

You can do that already. For example on Spiritreaver, you could Dark > Water > Ice (as soon as Absorb-INT begins) > Ice > Ice (while nuke is casting). The first 3 maneuvers take 20 seconds, but with my suggestion it would only be 2 seconds, but the last two still take another 20 seconds either way.

I was talking in terms of your suggestion, not with how it is currently. So currently it cannot be done because there is the ten second delay between the water and wind/ice. I know you can throw water in the mix like that because I throw one in once in awhile on Sharpshot and never overload spamming three wind. (Wind, Wind, Wind, wears -> Water, Wind, Wind, Wind, etc.)

I was saying with your suggestion it would be even better because you would have less time with [Water, Wind, Wind] and more time with [Wind, Wind, Wind] while still getting the benefit of heat sink.

[Halldir]

With the new testing of how the heat sink works, this would be pretty remarkable.

In fact for anyone who is having burden problems, I suggest you A) attach the heat sink if you don't have it already to ANY frame you are using, and B) learn how it works.

Way to completely miss the OP.

Shinron is tossing the idea that there should be a way to set maneuvers as using them breaks the natural flow of fighting and therefore reduces the amount DPS.

If it wasn't for the long animation and delay after or a way to set maneuvers quick i.e separating timers or add a JA/attachment that creates a extended duration maneuvers.

I could see an JA/Attachment like "Regulator/ion" that could induce master/automation slow for the tradeoff of extended maneuvers. That would balance the increased DPS from master and the devs happy for not overpowering a job.

I, myself like the 3 timers for Maneuvers. Add my overload gear, bang out 3 maneuvers, deploy, gear swap back to DD gear etc and go to it. Rinse repeat.

Overloading would be MY problem to control. And I like the post about 3 of the same would still take the same amount of time.


That would make it so that pup could possibly be involved in more end game activities.

Halldir from Odin

[Annalise]

Way to completely miss the OP.

Shinron is tossing the idea that there should be a way to set maneuvers as using them breaks the natural flow of fighting and therefore reduces the amount DPS.

If it wasn't for the long animation and delay after or a way to set maneuvers quick i.e separating timers or add a JA/attachment that creates a extended duration maneuvers.

I could see an JA/Attachment like "Regulator/ion" that could induce master/automation slow for the tradeoff of extended maneuvers. That would balance the increased DPS from master and the devs happy for not overpowering a job.

I, myself like the 3 timers for Maneuvers. Add my overload gear, bang out 3 maneuvers, deploy, gear swap back to DD gear etc and go to it. Rinse repeat.

Overloading would be MY problem to control. And I like the post about 3 of the same would still take the same amount of time.


That would make it so that pup could possibly be involved in more end game activities.

Halldir from Odin

Did you even read the OP? Did you see the nice bold Decrease in Burden Generated by Maneuvers (overload)?

Obviously that suggest (perhaps because of the alternator, or because people don't understand burden) that the OP or others are complaining about overload and that there is too much burden. I have an alternator and have yet to actually overload with it, while spamming ice and water maneuvers depending on frame. Why? Because I can effectively deal with burden.

I suggested using the heatsink because it makes burden decay faster.

Sorry for answering something that someone seems to be having a problem with?

[Shinron-PUP]

It's 40 seconds for 3 maneuvers, since the first starts at 0, not 10.

Splitting maneuvers into their own recast would probably be the easiest and most effective. You could set up 3 maneuvers in 2 seconds, as long as they are different ones. Stacking 3 same ones would still take 20 seconds.

Ok I must admit, I'm kind of a wishful thinker so what if they made manuevers 3 second recast and seperated the recast of all manuevers? I believe that would absolutely solve the problem of manuevers being a hindrance during battle because like Halldir said, if we could just throw up 3 manuevers quickly before battle then focus on fighting instead of having to add manuevers during battle, it would make playing puppetmaster a lot easier while also increasing dps. I don't think this would make Puppetmaster overpowered, it would just fix a issue that is long overdue for fixing. It would allow us to adapt to things during battle instantaneously
EX) A monster begins casting thundaga III? You can throw up at least 2 water manuevers before he gets the spell off to reduce damage then switch back to whatever manuevers you were using previously

EX) Your pet has up three fire manuevers but has 100TP and you need him to use armor shatterer (Wind Manuevers)... Well you can throw up 2 wind manuevers quickly instead of watching your pet use arcuballista and /facepalm afterwords

EX Your pet just erased all your wind manuevers you had up with replicator and you're trying to keep three up for barrage turbine? Well instead ot taking 20~30 seconds to get all three back up, it only takes 6~9 seconds.

There are clearly more battle advantages to having 3 second manuever recast than vs 10 seconds... and having a seperate recast for all manuevers would just make life even better.

Did you even read the OP? Did you see the nice bold Decrease in Burden Generated by Maneuvers (overload)?

Obviously that suggest (perhaps because of the alternator, or because people don't understand burden) that the OP or others are complaining about overload and that there is too much burden. I have an alternator and have yet to actually overload with it, while spamming ice and water maneuvers depending on frame. Why? Because I can effectively deal with burden.

I suggested using the heatsink because it makes burden decay faster.

Sorry for answering something that someone seems to be having a problem with?

Just to make things clear and to create a disclaimer, All of the bullet points I created in my previous post are nothing that I am necesarily concerned about and have absolutely no connection to my point I made about reducing recast/duration of manuevers. I only talked about them because they are problems that are Puppetmasters have mentioned throughout the forums that they would like to have fixed whether that was before or after fixes from updates. Clearly overload is not an issue because of cooldown, but it is still an existing factor that makes puppetmaster play at a lower level than we could. If it wasn't an existing problem, people would be using manuevers willy nilly whenever they wanted.

[Annalise]

Just to make things clear and to create a disclaimer, All of the bullet points I created in my previous post are nothing that I am necesarily concerned about and have absolutely no connection to my point I made about reducing recast/duration of manuevers. I only talked about them because they are problems that are Puppetmasters have mentioned throughout the forums that they would like to have fixed whether that was before or after fixes from updates. Clearly overload is not an issue because of cooldown, but it is still an existing factor that makes puppetmaster play at a lower level than we could. If it wasn't an existing problem, people would be using manuevers willy nilly whenever they wanted.

I knew it wasn't necessarily yours. That's why I said you or others.

[Shinron-PUP]

I knew it wasn't necessarily yours. That's why I said you or others.

Ops... That's my mistake then because I misread . I just see many people making comments on the bullet points I made that seem to be directly asking me why I would want these changes and I guess I get a little defensive hehe.

But with that said, a lot of the suggested ideas from other PUPs aren't always necessarily bad ones (and btw this isn't directed at you Annalise). Everyone is usually quick to hate something until it's implemented into the game, like the increase in level cap from 75 to 99 (I can't tell you how controversial that was until it actually happened). Even if they do something silly like adding pup to Asuran Fists (Oh ya they already did) or adding PUP to relic, its not like it will end the game or have a negative effect. Take what you get and make the best of it. If they give PUP Spharai (Monk Relic), well god damn it... It's time to /MNK and counterstance some shit. Lets not waste our time in the forums bickering at each other like what we have to say is stupid or not worth while. We wouldn't post it if we didn't truely believe it could help. Let the dev team be the deciders of what should and should not be implemented... We're just here to make suggestions so that we can get one step closer to getting PUP to where it really needs to be.