WHATS NEW SALE PRICE FOR BLINKERS?

[Demon6324236]

Well, if you want to know the honest truth, the majority of what I used to do on this game was help people when/if I could, at that time, I was paying for it. I was also paying for my friends account, now he pays for us both, so really I'm paying nothing, however I am much more selfish now that I don't pay, rather than when I did. This has little relevance in my opinion, but my point was that if people are getting something out of doing something else they are more likely to do it. If I go ask my LS to help me make an Ukon, but tell them I want all of the +2s from it as well, what do they come for? Just to help out? Not likely, at the same time, offer them +2s & they come if they need it, but if they don't then oh well. Everyone needs gil, great incentive, worked well, the point was that it gave a reason to help people, even if that was not your end goal because you really wanted money, and it was just a side effect.

When it comes down to "abusing" blinkers btw, this is partly how I classify it. If you intentionally went out of your way to get gil via blinkers, you abused it, by this I mean going out to cruor farm with 5 mules for hours. However if you do VW, merit in a xp party, do seals, do Emps, or anything else I didn't list that rewards cruor, then I don't think you abused it, you simply used it for something rather than letting it sit there & goto waste. My example above of people doing things for money & simply helping people out as the cherry on top is abusing it in a way, your goal is the cruor & gil, not the person being helped. If your helping to help & you get something in return then awesome, you got something too, but I don't think of you as abusing it.

I think the idea should be to have fun whatever your doin in the game. Making money should not be a boring drag that we muddle through because we want a piece of virtual gear or money that has no real value. I goto work & get to be bored there, when I come home I know I made real money, real money pays real bills, this is real life, so even though its boring, its important. I can not say the same for gil, I shouldnt have to be bored working to make money in a game, so I can get some fake money to pay for fake items in my games so I can go do some potentially fun things after I just bored myself for a few hours. I find many money making things boring in this game which is where this problem branches from for me, and unless it changes I plan to stay poor for some time.

Who is supposed to pay you? SE? Because that's what's been going on until now.

But that's how it should be, you should not be paid by SE for every action you do.

SE is not supposed to pay us, we pay them with real money, why should we have to bore ourselves in a game after giving them our real money, just so we can get some fake money to buy some items in a game we are supposed to be playing for fun? Easy answer, we shouldn't, a game by definition is an amusement or pastime according to my dictionary, so why should this "game" be something that forces its players to be bored in order to make progress.

[Trisscar]

and i bet all the items in eve cost you more than you spent in your entire ffxi lifetime. Don't compare 2 completely different games like that because it just makes you look dumb and desperate.

No. You know what does make people look stupid though? Talking about something you don't know the first thing about.

The ships don't start getting expensive until Battleships, the most expensive of which (outside of T2) is about 200 million. I've seen people pay more an that on Kraken Club alone, and basic gear ranges from five thousand to two million creds apiece. Meaning a fully geared CNC Battleship costs less than a single club.

What's up with that? That is a huge disparity in a game in which it's far more difficult to make significant amounts of Gil.

But you're right, I shouldn't be comparing two radically different games. So I'll compare FFxi with itself.

Killing Behemoth drops Gil every time you kill it, about fifteen thousand if I recall right. You can make more than that farming Lady Bug wings... Yeah, you read that right. You get paid more per hour killing lady bugs than you do killing a legendary monster. You mind telling me in what universe that makes any kind of sense?

But I suppose in your mind that neither person 'earned that Gil'?

So let's examine the activities of the people you claim 'earned that Gil', shall we?

1.) Buy material off of Auction House.

2.) Synth.

3.) Maybe get lucky and get HQ.

4.) Over charge for HQ.

5.) ???

6.) Profit!

...

Yeah, I can really see how they 'earned it'.

[Arcon]

When it comes down to "abusing" blinkers btw, this is partly how I classify it. If you intentionally went out of your way to get gil via blinkers, you abused it, by this I mean going out to cruor farm with 5 mules for hours. However if you do VW, merit in a xp party, do seals, do Emps, or anything else I didn't list that rewards cruor, then I don't think you abused it, you simply used it for something rather than letting it sit there & goto waste. My example above of people doing things for money & simply helping people out as the cherry on top is abusing it in a way, your goal is the cruor & gil, not the person being helped. If your helping to help & you get something in return then awesome, you got something too, but I don't think of you as abusing it.

Fully agree. I also never said VW should not be rewarding. I said doing it with cruor was the wrong way, because cruor themselves should not be that expensive. If they made VW drop gil instead of cruor now, I'd be perfectly ok with it.

I think the idea should be to have fun whatever your doin in the game. Making money should not be a boring drag that we muddle through because we want a piece of virtual gear or money that has no real value. I goto work & get to be bored there, when I come home I know I made real money, real money pays real bills, this is real life, so even though its boring, its important. I can not say the same for gil, I shouldnt have to be bored working to make money in a game, so I can get some fake money to pay for fake items in my games so I can go do some potentially fun things after I just bored myself for a few hours. I find many money making things boring in this game which is where this problem branches from for me, and unless it changes I plan to stay poor for some time.

This is not how an economy can be sustained, it's completely impossible. I know it's what you want, it's what many people want, but that doesn't change the fact that it's impossible. Making money can not be easy, quick and fun, if it was no player-based economy could possibly work, because it would inhibit supply, because people would just try to obtain items with money instead of playing the game. Lots of cashflow, little supply, big demand means inflation, and that would widen the gap between the poor and the rich even more. And even if you don't want to believe it, while Blinkers were in effect you were poor, regardless of how easy you think money came to you. Because whatever you make, others will make thousand times more, and when supply gets low it's them who'll be able to afford items, because they can outbid you. You weren't making money with cruor, you were losing it.

SE is not supposed to pay us, we pay them with real money, why should we have to bore ourselves in a game after giving them our real money, just so we can get some fake money to buy some items in a game we are supposed to be playing for fun? Easy answer, we shouldn't, a game by definition is an amusement or pastime according to my dictionary, so why should this "game" be something that forces its players to be bored in order to make progress.

Was your dictionary written by the Nintendo Wii development team? Certainly sounds like it. It's not what makes a game, and it's by no means what defines a game, and it's even less what I play for. I find joy in achievement, not amusement, and that is what has defined FFXI for a decade, which is why it's reasonable to assume that I'm not the only one feeling that way. In fact, I'm pretty sure it applies to you as well, otherwise you wouldn't have stuck around this long.

[Trisscar]

Arcon if you were working at a job doing something that you absolutely enjoy doing would you work for free?

Of course you wouldn't, because money is a necessity for day-to-day life.

Now in the game we play the part of professional adventurers. It is our job to go out, explore, slay monsters, gather materials for crafters, and on. And yet you want to restrict getting paid to actually go out and do our jobs... Because?

Also, like I said before, making significant amounts of money in most other MMO is not an issue (hell, it isn't half as difficult in FFxiv). Their economies don't seem to be in any trouble. Why should that be any different here?

Why should it be an hard to achieve achievement To make just enough money for decent gear?

Last I checked this isn't a financial simulation, making Gil is not the chief goal of the game. This it shouldn't be like pulling teeth.

[Arcon]

Arcon if you were working at a job doing something that you absolutely enjoy doing would you work for free?

And do you complain about life because making money is not fun? Are you one of those people who write politicians they should get more money for no reason other than that you could use it and thinks it's unfair that they don't have any?

Also, people who enjoy their jobs are the exception, just like people who enjoy making money ingame. I enjoy Salvage a lot, but I would never argue that making money is fun already, because I know it doesn't extend to everyone.

Now in the game we play the part of professional adventurers. It is our job to go out, explore, slay monsters, gather materials for crafters, and on. And yet you want to restrict getting paid to actually go out and do our jobs... Because?

Because the NPCs aren't paying us. They can't run out of money. We create money out of nothing. That is what's fucking with the economy.

And we already get rewarded for every single event there is, it's just not always money. Cruor is good for other things as well, in case you didn't notice.

Also, like I said before, making significant amounts of money in most other MMO is not an issue (hell, it isn't half as difficult in FFxiv). Their economies don't seem to be in any trouble. Why should it be an achievement just to make Gil to get decent gear?

I don't know anything about their economies, so I can't comment. But like I said before, if things are even slightly different, the situations don't compare and the same rules can't be applied. Also, I'm not sure you know anything about their economies either, judging by your previous comments on that topic.

Last I check this isn't a financial simulation, making Gil is not the chief goal of the game.

Precisely. So why do you focus so much on it? It's the chief goal to do events, not to make gil to buy the crap you can get there.

[Doombringer]

also... kraken clubs don't explode. so... there's that.

not to mention that a battleship is not as high on the eve price scale as a kraken club here. titans cost about 90 billion to make, and most people can't make them. so they're easily 120 billion on the open market. (it's not like crafting here where every player is a self contained factory. you need access to facilities in eve, and the largest facilities can only be set up in remote player owned space. so basically: for just the privelage of assembling a titan, you need to conquer and hold a small swath of space. not to mention the overhead on the facility itself)

granted most players don't own titans, but most players don't own kraken clubs either. i own several battleships and who the fuck am i? nobody, that's who.


but more on topic, this is gonna suck short term but it'll probably even out eventually. the market will adjust to people not being able to generate large amounts of easy gil, so things will hopefully get cheaper over time. (i say hopefully because i dunno how much gil is actually removed from the system every day via stuff like taxes, airship rides, chocobo rentals, buying stuff from npc's, so on etc. it may be that we'll just see prices go up slower)

just wish i'd turned in my cruor before this all went down. guess it's time to make it rain brews or something...

[Trisscar]

And do you complain about life because making money is not fun? Are you one of those people who write politicians they should get more money for no reason other than that you could use it and thinks it's unfair that they don't have any?

No, I work two jobs. The difference between real life and FFxi? I'm garanteed to get paid for working. In FFxi it's a crap shot.

Also, people who enjoy their jobs are the exception, just like people who enjoy making money ingame. I enjoy Salvage a lot, but I would never argue that making money is fun already, because I know it doesn't extend to everyone.

I'm not arguing that making money should be made fun, I'm arguing that making money should be possible to do.

Because the NPCs aren't paying us. They can't run out of money. We create money out of nothing. That is what's fucking with the economy.

Are we even playing the same game? The economy has been very stable in FFxi for a while now, somewhat inflated prices none withstanding. But I know your game. When prices come crashing down, and they will, you'll be here complaining yet again about the prices.

You want to be able to have low prices when you buy and high prices when you sell. Well I'm sorry, but you can't have it both ways.

I don't know anything about their economies, so I can't comment. But like I said before, if things are even slightly different, the situations don't compare and the same rules can't be applied. Also, I'm not sure you know anything about their economies either, judging by your previous comments on that topic.

Yeah, sure. What ever you say.

[Trisscar]

also... kraken clubs don't explode. so... there's that.

not to mention that a battleship is not as high on the eve price scale as a kraken club here. titans cost about 90 billion to make, and most people can't make them. so they're easily 120 billion on the open market. (it's not like crafting here where every player is a self contained factory. you need access to facilities in eve, and the largest facilities can only be set up in remote player owned space. so basically: for just the privelage of assembling a titan, you need to conquer and hold a small swath of space. not to mention the overhead on the facility itself)

granted most players don't own titans, but most players don't own kraken clubs either. i own several battleships and who the fuck am i? nobody, that's who.


but more on topic, this is gonna suck short term but it'll probably even out eventually. the market will adjust to people not being able to generate large amounts of easy gil, so things will hopefully get cheaper over time. (i say hopefully because i dunno how much gil is actually removed from the system every day via stuff like taxes, airship rides, chocobo rentals, buying stuff from npc's, so on etc. it may be that we'll just see prices go up slower)

just wish i'd turned in my cruor before this all went down. guess it's time to make it rain brews or something...

Capital ships in general and Titans in particular are not personal possessions, they're owned by the corporation. Kraken Clubs are personal possessions, so I compared it to other personal possessions.

To be more accurate about extreme personal wealth being spent on ships you'd have to compare it to Strategic Cruisers, the frames of which (last I checked) cost 50 billion by themselves, 10 billion for each module (another 50 billion, assuming you don't purchase all 15 modules unique to all four Strategic Cruisers which most don't), and probably another 10 billion if you gear it with officer and/or dead space equipment.

That's also putting aside creds for skill books and time spent training. It's outside the reach of your average pilot, but it's possible to get.

[JohnGotti]

This Arcon guy is a real funny dude, with his high and mighty morals you would never guess the linkshell he is in used to make and sell packetbots for the hnm days.

Good old Melons eh Arcon

[Arcon]

No, I work two jobs. The difference between real life and FFxi? I'm garanteed to get paid for working. In FFxi it's a crap shot.

I'm not arguing that making money should be made fun, I'm arguing that making money should be possible to do.

It's not a crapshoot, making money in FFXI is guaranteed if you put effort in. Yes, it's a matter of luck if you make 2.5M in a Dynamis run, with no competition and lucky procs/drops, or only 1.5M with much competition and shitty procs, but either way you make decent money, and unlike cruor it does not hurt the economy.

Are we even playing the same game? The economy has been very stable in FFxi for a while now, somewhat inflated prices none withstanding.

Yes withstanding, very much withstanding, inflated prices is almost the definition of an unstable economy.

But I know your game. When prices come crashing down, and they will, you'll be here complaining yet again about the prices.

You know very little, as you've repeatedly demonstrated. I don't even need money at all in this game, I'm very happy where I am now. My complaint is that an inflation would suck for everyone around me, especially new players, which my LS is full of.

You want to be able to have low prices when you buy and high prices when you sell. Well I'm sorry, but you can't have it both ways.

Oh, I can. That's precisely how I got rich at 75. Buy and resale. I made tens of millions in a few months just bazaaring overnight. It works extremely well. And it's still not at all related to what's going on here. I can make money in a dozen ways if I wanted to (as can you), with or without cruor. All this change did was remove a way to passively make money, and that's what disturbs many people, which, in turn, I find pretty disturbing, because I find it hard to believe that anyone thought that was an acceptable state of the game. I honestly don't see how people can be that short-sighted.