WHATS NEW SALE PRICE FOR BLINKERS?

[svengalis]

No matter the reason, the point was it gave a reason for people to help eachother, which was good imo. I see far to many greedy people in this game who do whatever benefits them, and as soon as it comes to helping out others they just walk away, thats the attitude I have a problem with that cruor admittedly did help a bit.

Why is someone greedy just because when they log on they want to progress their character? Isn't that why we all log on and continue to log on because we want to progress our characters? If all you are doing is helping eventually you will stop logging on. Lets remember this is a pay to play mmo.

[Trisscar]

Arcon if you were working at a job doing something that you absolutely enjoy doing would you work for free?

Of course you wouldn't, because money is a necessity for day-to-day life.

Now in the game we play the part of professional adventurers. It is our job to go out, explore, slay monsters, gather materials for crafters, and on. And yet you want to restrict getting paid to actually go out and do our jobs... Because?

Also, like I said before, making significant amounts of money in most other MMO is not an issue (hell, it isn't half as difficult in FFxiv). Their economies don't seem to be in any trouble. Why should that be any different here?

Why should it be an hard to achieve achievement To make just enough money for decent gear?

Last I checked this isn't a financial simulation, making Gil is not the chief goal of the game. This it shouldn't be like pulling teeth.

[Arcon]

Arcon if you were working at a job doing something that you absolutely enjoy doing would you work for free?

And do you complain about life because making money is not fun? Are you one of those people who write politicians they should get more money for no reason other than that you could use it and thinks it's unfair that they don't have any?

Also, people who enjoy their jobs are the exception, just like people who enjoy making money ingame. I enjoy Salvage a lot, but I would never argue that making money is fun already, because I know it doesn't extend to everyone.

Now in the game we play the part of professional adventurers. It is our job to go out, explore, slay monsters, gather materials for crafters, and on. And yet you want to restrict getting paid to actually go out and do our jobs... Because?

Because the NPCs aren't paying us. They can't run out of money. We create money out of nothing. That is what's fucking with the economy.

And we already get rewarded for every single event there is, it's just not always money. Cruor is good for other things as well, in case you didn't notice.

Also, like I said before, making significant amounts of money in most other MMO is not an issue (hell, it isn't half as difficult in FFxiv). Their economies don't seem to be in any trouble. Why should it be an achievement just to make Gil to get decent gear?

I don't know anything about their economies, so I can't comment. But like I said before, if things are even slightly different, the situations don't compare and the same rules can't be applied. Also, I'm not sure you know anything about their economies either, judging by your previous comments on that topic.

Last I check this isn't a financial simulation, making Gil is not the chief goal of the game.

Precisely. So why do you focus so much on it? It's the chief goal to do events, not to make gil to buy the crap you can get there.

[Trisscar]

And do you complain about life because making money is not fun? Are you one of those people who write politicians they should get more money for no reason other than that you could use it and thinks it's unfair that they don't have any?

No, I work two jobs. The difference between real life and FFxi? I'm garanteed to get paid for working. In FFxi it's a crap shot.

Also, people who enjoy their jobs are the exception, just like people who enjoy making money ingame. I enjoy Salvage a lot, but I would never argue that making money is fun already, because I know it doesn't extend to everyone.

I'm not arguing that making money should be made fun, I'm arguing that making money should be possible to do.

Because the NPCs aren't paying us. They can't run out of money. We create money out of nothing. That is what's fucking with the economy.

Are we even playing the same game? The economy has been very stable in FFxi for a while now, somewhat inflated prices none withstanding. But I know your game. When prices come crashing down, and they will, you'll be here complaining yet again about the prices.

You want to be able to have low prices when you buy and high prices when you sell. Well I'm sorry, but you can't have it both ways.

I don't know anything about their economies, so I can't comment. But like I said before, if things are even slightly different, the situations don't compare and the same rules can't be applied. Also, I'm not sure you know anything about their economies either, judging by your previous comments on that topic.

Yeah, sure. What ever you say.

[Arcon]

No, I work two jobs. The difference between real life and FFxi? I'm garanteed to get paid for working. In FFxi it's a crap shot.

I'm not arguing that making money should be made fun, I'm arguing that making money should be possible to do.

It's not a crapshoot, making money in FFXI is guaranteed if you put effort in. Yes, it's a matter of luck if you make 2.5M in a Dynamis run, with no competition and lucky procs/drops, or only 1.5M with much competition and shitty procs, but either way you make decent money, and unlike cruor it does not hurt the economy.

Are we even playing the same game? The economy has been very stable in FFxi for a while now, somewhat inflated prices none withstanding.

Yes withstanding, very much withstanding, inflated prices is almost the definition of an unstable economy.

But I know your game. When prices come crashing down, and they will, you'll be here complaining yet again about the prices.

You know very little, as you've repeatedly demonstrated. I don't even need money at all in this game, I'm very happy where I am now. My complaint is that an inflation would suck for everyone around me, especially new players, which my LS is full of.

You want to be able to have low prices when you buy and high prices when you sell. Well I'm sorry, but you can't have it both ways.

Oh, I can. That's precisely how I got rich at 75. Buy and resale. I made tens of millions in a few months just bazaaring overnight. It works extremely well. And it's still not at all related to what's going on here. I can make money in a dozen ways if I wanted to (as can you), with or without cruor. All this change did was remove a way to passively make money, and that's what disturbs many people, which, in turn, I find pretty disturbing, because I find it hard to believe that anyone thought that was an acceptable state of the game. I honestly don't see how people can be that short-sighted.

[Trisscar]

It's not a crapshoot, making money in FFXI is guaranteed if you put effort in. Yes, it's a matter of luck if you make 2.5M in a Dynamis run, with no competition and lucky procs/drops, or only 1.5M with much competition and shitty procs, but either way you make decent money, and unlike cruor it does not hurt the economy.

All that money circulating through the economy, where do you think it ultimately comes from? If you guessed anything other than NPC, then you are wrong. Because entropy is inherent in a closed system when there is no outside energy being received. It's true for physics, it's true for economies.

Yes withstanding, very much withstanding, inflated prices is almost the definition of an unstable economy.

Yes, please keep on demonstrating your complete lack of understanding while I show you why you are wrong:

In an unstable economy you expect to see trends in sharp rise and fall in such things like the price of goods offered over a short period of time. That isn't what we've been seeing. Instead, after the initial inflation due to new influx of money in the system, prices stabilized and held steady.

Yeah, I'd call that unstable alright.



Look, I agree that making money shouldn't be the be all end all of the game. But it shouldn't be so difficult that you need do hours of old content solo just to make ends meet.

[Doombringer]

also... kraken clubs don't explode. so... there's that.

not to mention that a battleship is not as high on the eve price scale as a kraken club here. titans cost about 90 billion to make, and most people can't make them. so they're easily 120 billion on the open market. (it's not like crafting here where every player is a self contained factory. you need access to facilities in eve, and the largest facilities can only be set up in remote player owned space. so basically: for just the privelage of assembling a titan, you need to conquer and hold a small swath of space. not to mention the overhead on the facility itself)

granted most players don't own titans, but most players don't own kraken clubs either. i own several battleships and who the fuck am i? nobody, that's who.


but more on topic, this is gonna suck short term but it'll probably even out eventually. the market will adjust to people not being able to generate large amounts of easy gil, so things will hopefully get cheaper over time. (i say hopefully because i dunno how much gil is actually removed from the system every day via stuff like taxes, airship rides, chocobo rentals, buying stuff from npc's, so on etc. it may be that we'll just see prices go up slower)

just wish i'd turned in my cruor before this all went down. guess it's time to make it rain brews or something...

[Trisscar]

also... kraken clubs don't explode. so... there's that.

not to mention that a battleship is not as high on the eve price scale as a kraken club here. titans cost about 90 billion to make, and most people can't make them. so they're easily 120 billion on the open market. (it's not like crafting here where every player is a self contained factory. you need access to facilities in eve, and the largest facilities can only be set up in remote player owned space. so basically: for just the privelage of assembling a titan, you need to conquer and hold a small swath of space. not to mention the overhead on the facility itself)

granted most players don't own titans, but most players don't own kraken clubs either. i own several battleships and who the fuck am i? nobody, that's who.


but more on topic, this is gonna suck short term but it'll probably even out eventually. the market will adjust to people not being able to generate large amounts of easy gil, so things will hopefully get cheaper over time. (i say hopefully because i dunno how much gil is actually removed from the system every day via stuff like taxes, airship rides, chocobo rentals, buying stuff from npc's, so on etc. it may be that we'll just see prices go up slower)

just wish i'd turned in my cruor before this all went down. guess it's time to make it rain brews or something...

Capital ships in general and Titans in particular are not personal possessions, they're owned by the corporation. Kraken Clubs are personal possessions, so I compared it to other personal possessions.

To be more accurate about extreme personal wealth being spent on ships you'd have to compare it to Strategic Cruisers, the frames of which (last I checked) cost 50 billion by themselves, 10 billion for each module (another 50 billion, assuming you don't purchase all 15 modules unique to all four Strategic Cruisers which most don't), and probably another 10 billion if you gear it with officer and/or dead space equipment.

That's also putting aside creds for skill books and time spent training. It's outside the reach of your average pilot, but it's possible to get.

[Doombringer]

Capital ships in general and Titans in particular are not personal possessions, they're owned by the corporation. Kraken Clubs are personal possessions, so I compared it to other personal possessions.

To be more accurate about extreme personal wealth being spent on ships you'd have to compare it to Strategic Cruisers, the frames of which (last I checked) cost 50 billion for the frame, 10 billion for each module (another 50 billion), and probably another 10 billion if you gear it with officer and/or dead space equipment.

That's also putting aside creds for skill books and time spent training. It's outside the reach of your average pilot, but it's possible to get.

that reminds me, yah.. the numbers i quoted for titans are just the hull, no modules.

but it is also true that there are very few (if any) privately owned titans. so fair enough there.

but even with a T3 cruiser, you are an order of magnitude above anything HERE, with the added caveat that no matter how powerful the ship and the modules you fit to it, it's all technically "consumable" when somebody flies up and kills you.

basically eve HAS to shit isk, because it has FAR more isk sinks than we have gil sinks. (potentially every other pilot)

[Trisscar]

that reminds me, yah.. the numbers i quoted for titans are just the hull, no modules.

but it is also true that there are very few (if any) privately owned titans. so fair enough there.

but even with a T3 cruiser, you are an order of magnitude above anything HERE, with the added caveat that no matter how powerful the ship and the modules you fit to it, it's all technically "consumable" when somebody flies up and kills you.

basically eve HAS to shit isk, because it has FAR more isk sinks than we have gil sinks. (potentially every other pilot)

Fair enough. But the difference between Strategic Cruisers and just about any Gil sink? Strategic Cruisers are heads and shoulders above just about anything else flying out there (also a reason why they are generally a good investment, there isn't much out there that can threaten one). Compare that to just about any HQ where it's 15 million Gil or more compared to its NQ counterpart at 1 million.

What are you paying for, apart from an extra +2 here or there?