On Red Mage melee...

[Varchesis]

Even if they did buff our enspells I don't see them buffing them that much, and even then it really wouldn't matter. With dual wield we can probably average 60-70 damage per attack round. That's not terrible, yet inside abyssea that damage averages under 10% of a good Red Mage's damage. Simply put enspells don't scale in abyssea like everything else does which means unless we get some enspells that scale don't expect them to really contribute that much inside abyssea, because for them to actually do a meaningful amount inside abyssea they would pretty much break the game outside abyssea.

(You should really put 2 merits into Dia III, an alliance wide +17.5% (minimum) attack boost is pretty big especially for a Rdm's damage)

I disagree but, the concept of game-breaking is some sort of fear we all have. Abyssea is game-breaking cause it makes you not want to do any content outside of it. So, the point seems moot.

The game is broken. Who needs a RDM now anyway?

If RDMs want to melee more (which is the focus of this thread) then RDM melee needs to compete with other melees to deserve a spot. Why would that break the game?
There would be just one less SAM DRK BLU RNG WAR in the party...
Merits and enfeebles are not the answer I am sorry. Like I said just forget thinking about building gear for melee or SE ever giving you gear for melee because RDMs constantly show that they will take magic gear over melee gear anyway.

BSTs complained and got more of what they want. RDMs won't complain cause we have some notion of chivalry or fencing or Altana knows what... and the result is RDMs will be haste-healing-refresh slaves forever. Heck, even refresh is mostly moot in Abyssea. So Haste and backup heal 'cause you can't main heal against NMs like a WHM. Wait.. don't Haste cause we need to proc and ppl are already doing too much damage...
God, why am I the only one who sees RDM dieing slowly?

Want to see RDM melee one day? Ask for a real enhancement:
Crank up the En- spells like the old days!!

[Supersun]

There would be just one less SAM DRK BLU RNG WAR in the party...

A well geared Rdm already competes (if not beats) all but one or two of those.
I mean when you give examples for DDs why would you list 3 of the worst DDs in the game atm.

You have to realize, there's not just one way to improve Rdm DD. It's perfectly possible to improve it and STILL keep it in the style of the job.

(and are you really complaining about Red Mage's damage when you haven't build a Red Mage DD set O.o)

[Varchesis]

I'll take En- III with 30~60+ per hit over Dia IV any dang day!! And that's being conservative. Improving RDM melee means hitting harder and/or faster. For RDM that means Enhancing Magic or... enhancing sword/dagger DMG. Not enfeebling magic.

Here are the opposing scenarios:

RDM: "Hey guys, I have Dia IV. We can hit much harder now!"
PT Leader: "Nah, but we can do without Dia IV. RDM hits for crap. We need a DD."
RDM: /cry

=VERSUS=

RDM: "Hey guys, I have En- III. I can hit much harder now!"
PT Leader: "Sweet. That'll work. RDM hits about as hard as other DDs now and can support the party, too."
RDM: "Great! Let me gear up."


Greater En- spell damage. Can I have it?

[Supersun]

Dia IV is a bad example considering it's really not that hard to cap attack. Saying that an enfeeble can't work is just not looking at a wide enough scope. For example if we got an enfeeble that caused the monster to take double damage from everything well...Red Mage would likely be the most wanted job. Now obviously that example would be over the top a bit, but enfeebling doesn't necessarily have to mean a defensive effect and it doesn't JUST have to mean defense down. There are weaknesses to enfeebles as well though, mainly that trash monsters die too fast. If a monster dies in 3 seconds that's hardly MP efficient to try and keep an enfeeble on every monster though at the same time you can debate if the increased killing speed at that point is really worth it.

Likewise, Enspells only affect the TP phase which Red Mage has generally NEVER had problems with. Red Mage throughout the history of FFXI has generally been one of the best DoT jobs. It's always been the Weapons Skills that blow us out of the water and it's been those Weapon Skills that always created the huge gap between Red Mage and other DDs (that and leg selection D. Now with abyssea things have become slightly inverted now. Our Weapon Skills are actually decent but now our TP damage isn't so hot due to our enspells not scaling as well and the fact that we generally are forced to use a lvl 75 dagger in the main hand.

I'm all for T3 Enspells what their effect will be will depend a lot on where the content of FFXI is going imo. If we are going to keep atma then sure, create some broken enspells, but if they ever want to leave abyssea at some point either they will have to balance them so that they are insignificant inside abyssea or that they will have to scale with atma in someway (besides elemental affinity).

[Protey]

Our Weapon Skills are actually decent but now our TP damage isn't so hot due to our enspells not scaling as well and the fact that we generally are forced to use a lvl 75 dagger in the main hand.

Could use one of the two swords that give Chant du Cygne, or could use Twilight Knife.