On Red Mage melee...

[Supersun]

Sword Spells

Seems...not necessary. I mean it costs what the normal spell costs +50 TP? Why not just cast normal spell instead.
It also does seem to step on Blue Mages toes as they do tend to specialize in Spike spells. Sure, our damage is magical and theirs is physical, but I'd almost just prefer they buffed Blus magical side if it's not strong enough.

[AyinDygra]

Seems...not necessary. I mean it costs what the normal spell costs +50 TP? Why not just cast normal spell instead.

I guess I should have included more of my reasoning in the notes:

This also grants RDMs access to spells they normally don't have (Ancient Magic, and new enfeebles) given the additional requirement of costing TP as well as MP, so they're not just new spells added to the normal spell list -- this requires the RDM to be on the dangerous front lines to get access to their "full" spell list. RDM can still be useful on the back lines, but this encourages front line participation. (Since this topic is about how to improve RDM melee, I haven't addressed the mage side very much at all, aside from my first idea post with new spells, but I doubt SE would normally just give RDM access to Ancient Magic, etc)

Secondly, as to why not just cast the normal spell instead? They have their own separate recast timers so the same spell can be cast almost instantly, as long as the RDM has TP. (something similar to dual casting or simultaneous casting that has been suggested in the past and was rejected by SE as being "impossible.")

And in reply to the BLU thing... I think BLU stepped on RDM's toes first. >.> ) It's not like there isn't already Black Mage, White Mage, and Scholar casting magic the same as Red Mage... and Dark Knight and Blue Mage casting magic accompanied by their melee... The theme of BLU's spells are completely different from normal mages anyway.

Red Mage has mixed both the Red Mage and Magic Knight of past FF games, similar to FF1's Red Mage, being able to melee respectably, and cast low levels of White and Black Magic for utility. The dual-school casting aspect of the job has really been given to Scholar, while Red Mage has taken on a majority of the aspects of the "Magic Knight" from past FF games. They focus on spell casting on their swords as their unique thing, and the en-spells were a good start. This is the real meat of the job, in my opinion... and it's been lacking due to their magical prowess and the role they have taken on in FFXI society with a lack of WHM's, and the need for refresh in this game's combat system... both pulling RDM away from their focus.

Edit: One more reason to use the Sword Spell: Instant cast of the spell, for the cost of TP. This combines the casting time with the old recast, to make a really long recast timer for the spells instead. This alone would make the sword spells useful for front line casting while meleeing.

[Supersun]

I wasn't referring to the aesthetical factor of stepping on blue mages toes. Sure there are other jobs that are on the front lines casting magic. I was more referring how this essentially mimics the role Blue plays on a more technical level. That being, jobs on the front like casting spells for spike damage.

I certainly believe there's room on the front lines for another type of mage/melee hybrid, but in a sense your idea is more or less mimicking Blue Mage because if you remove the damage types between the 2, magical and physical, it's essentially the exact same thing. Jobs doing spike damage with their spells and only gaining access to all their spells if they are in range...except ours cost TP

I'm not saying there's a way this couldn't work, but as it stands right now that idea just sounds like Blue Mage -1.

I mean there's a variety of different ways to assist on the front lines. We don't need something that is so similar to blue.
(that and the simpler and easier the idea the better chance it has of being added. The dev team can't spend ALL their time on Rdm :P)

[Duelle]

Ayn's idea reminds me of an idea I once had.

Job Abilities
Spellblade (1 minute cooldown): Allows the Red Mage to infuse their weapon with one elemental magic spell, allowing it to take effect instantly. Magic cast through Spellblade counts as if it had been normally casted, thus allowing it to act as a magic burst if used after a skillchain. Requires Sword or Dagger equipped in the main hand slot.

Job Traits
Magic Fencer: Grants TP bonus to spells cast through Spellblade.

* The idea is designed to serve as burst, but meant to also evolve and change at higher levels, where Spellblade would become on-demand burst once Magic Fencer enters the picture instead of being solely used to land a quick MB if needed.
* Spellblade's accuracy is derived from melee accuracy.
* The elemental feedback idea could be tied to spellblade, if deemed appropriate and adjusted accordingly.
* Aside from having a 1-minute cooldown, the actual spell cast through this JA would be put on its own cooldown as well.
* It is also part of a much bigger set of changes.

[Seriha]

Anyone that thinks a BLU's magical side sucks now hasn't seen a good BLU. Water nukes are probably the most universally potent set with Corrosive Ooze, Regurgitation, and Acrid Stream as front-runners in proper builds. Meanwhile, you get things like a pimped out Charged Whisker allowing them solo AoE burn without facing diminishing damage like BLM's -agas. Thermal Pulse isn't bad as a fire nuke and Everyone's Grudge can be decent if you build toward that, too. I do agree their old magical spells blow and could use a looking over in both potency and MP costs, but that's a matter for the BLU board.

Either way, I just want to advise against clogging suggestions into simple En-effects. As is, the category is basically limited to one, otherwise we could benefit from Sambas or not run into conflicts with weapons with their own innate effects. Even with just six Enspells, we tend to stick to Enblizzard since most also have Ice merits to help with MACC. Suggesting a RDM just spell spam to cycle them between swings would be, in turn, quite silly since they could just cast the normal versions unless the En-whatevers are way, way better. Of course, you're not at all helping our casting burden or addressing how useless enfeebles tend to be on fodder mobs or detrimental to counter tanks who don't want their NMs slowed/para'd so they can kill more quickly.

Overall, multi-purpose debuffs would be good. Cutting down on our need to cycle would be another step. When we get the freedom of time, we're given a greater luxury to actually be versatile and not focused on one thing. And no, Double Cast will not help this no matter how many times someone inanely suggests it.

[Doombringer]

i'd like to see a spell that has slow para blind addle and a def/att down effect all rolled into one. make it lvl 99 rdm only.. call it.. "cripple" or something. if a mob is immune to any particular aspect of cripple, the other effects still land.

each individual effect would be at around the potency of the unmerited spells... so slow1, para1, blind1, dia2 and bio2. (not literally dia2 and bio2, i know they don't gel.. but that much def/att down, maybe no dot at all)

give it a quick cast/recast time, and you've just freed up a lot of time for the rdm to actually swing his weapon. instead of spending so much time enfeebling every mob, it's dead by the time the last spell lands, you just cripple it.

it's not op since it's all effects you can apply to the mob anyway, slightly weaker. (given that some effects use int to determine potency, and others mnd, and they are all by nature weaker than there merit equivalents) it just lets you do it in one fifth the time.

this could be a helpful utility spell for mid tier mobs, whereas when you move to tougher mobs or nm's an rdm may still choose to use the individual spells, optimized through gear.



it's not a DIRECT melee buff, but it frees us up to actually swing while still doing rdm things, and hopefully bringing back a bit of what has been lost to the job recently.

[Duelle]

i'd like to see a spell that has slow para blind addle and a def/att down effect all rolled into one. make it lvl 99 rdm only.. call it.. "cripple" or something. if a mob is immune to any particular aspect of cripple, the other effects still land.

That would go hand in hand with something else I once came up with.

Job Abilities
Readiness (3 minute cooldown): Allows the Red Mage to cast up to four enhancing magic spells on themselves at the same time. The Red Mage can set these four spells through the Readiness interface. Each spell is put on its own cooldown, and the casting time of Readiness is the average casting time of all four spells before Fast Cast is factored.

To me this is basically Refresh, Haste, Enspell and Phalanx in one shot. Granted, I originally thought of this as part of a melee stance that by nature has longer buff durations (and does away with composure as we know it), but the JA alone would fit what you seem to be looking for.

On the topic of copying mechanics from BLU, let me just say that it is less about copying and more on playing off concepts that make our melee actually relevant to the rest of the things we can do. Directly relevant, at that (you can't have a magic fencer without mixing melee and magic together, and enspells are a step in that direction but not the entire thing). Also do keep in mind that BLU as it is came about because the devs refused to fix RDM at the time and were hoping the melee crowd would jump off RDM to play BLU instead.

[Doombringer]

That would go hand in hand with something else I once came up with.

Job Abilities
Readiness (3 minute cooldown): Allows the Red Mage to cast up to four enhancing magic spells on themselves at the same time. The Red Mage can set these four spells through the Readiness interface. Each spell is put on its own cooldown, and the casting time of Readiness is the average casting time of all four spells before Fast Cast is factored.

To me this is basically Refresh, Haste, Enspell and Phalanx in one shot. Granted, I originally thought of this as part of a melee stance that by nature has longer buff durations (and does away with composure as we know it), but the JA alone would fit what you seem to be looking for.

agreed, it's sorta the other side of the same coin, and would be equally helpful for the same reasons.

[Seriha]

Also do keep in mind that BLU as it is came about because the devs refused to fix RDM at the time and were hoping the melee crowd would jump off RDM to play BLU instead.

Until a dev comes out and says that, it's pretty much player assumption... and popular fodder for the anti-melee crowd. Rather, I see them designing BLU with some of RDM's shortcomings in mind, skirting the staff issue in part by tying physical spell accuracy to your main-hand, keeping their ranges relatively short so they're in melee range anyway, and basically making them quick casting and MP efficient so they can swing more. The general lack of party buffs didn't hurt that last one, either.

[Merton9999]

What of you combined the Spellblade concept with the ever-popular suggestion:

Runic
One minute cooldown
Absorbs the next elemental magic spell cast by the mob, or the Red Mage or another party member, provided the spell was cast on or by the opponent to which the Red mage is engaged, and provided the element of the spell matches the current enspell element in effect on the Red Mage. The MP cost of the spell is used in conjunction with the weapon's attack power (and possibly other modifiers) to enhance the enspell damage for the remaining duration of the enspell.

The goal with the damage calculation would be ideally to double the damage possible through just the straight nuke damage, as enmity free enspell DOT. To reach this, you'd have to gear for accuracy and haste, your weapon attack power would matter, and you'd need to minimize cycle spells.

I agree with Seriha that minimizing cycling is an ideal way to bring RDMs to the front, but with the current direction of multi-purpose jobs the idea has been to require a stance to be chosen so that you can't be great at multiple things at once. BLU can be a good main healer but not if they're a great DD. Same with SCH. Good players can toggle well, but that would be the challenge here too.

Or, you could go the route mentioned above of making the next successful hit a spike damage loaded with the damage of the absorbed spell, modified by TP and other factors so the ideal again is spell damage x1.5-2 depending on your gear and skills.

Or! Let's say the default behavior of Runic is to enhance the enspell damage per strike for no extra enmity. But you could get an additional JA a couple levels later, "Runic Seal" that allowed you to channel the remaining power of the absorbed spell into additional weapon skill damage. That way if you reached a point where you need to stop meleeing to cure, enhance, enfeeble, you could still make use of the rest of the nuking power and your TP and gain enmity by using a magic infused WS. Ideally this would do less damage than if you were able to melee out the rest of the absorbed spell duration.

One neat thing about this would be the potential for another member to offer more damage to Runic. For example, through higher tier nukes or AM from BLM, SCH, SMN. The RDM could of course use Runic when soloing to enhance their own enspell via Tier IV's.

I also like that this could be used as a pseudo stun, but only for a single element family of spells you'd have to plan for in advance. It also minimizes the use of Runic as both a stun and melee damage enhancer because chances are you won't be meleeing against a mob with an enspell matching the element they like to cast.

My favorite thing is it would be awesome to randomly steal another party member's spell for my own damage by throwing up Runic while they're casting