NEO Nyzul 2.0

[Demon6324236]

Once again, if this event required skill, they would make the drops luck based like they used to be. Then we would be bitching our skill isn't giving us reward (VW). NO NO NO red mage CANNOT melee even close to as efficient as a heavy DD or a dnc nin thf mnk pup blu. They're an enfeebling master. That's what they're designed to do. So stop saying it can. I had a melee rdm, it didn't work. What do you seriously want them to do to this event? How the hell would they make it "skill based"? How would they make it "skill" based without making it extremely easy for the current setups of sch x2 4 heavy DD? YOu want them to make it so you can go in with 6 bst and clear content no problem and get the best gear in the game, using said "skill" of pressing 4 buttons. Or 6 red mages "meleeing" fodder mobs. So much skill right. Give me good suggestions and the dev team good suggestions on how not to break the event and make it too easy on 2 SCH 4 heavy DD setups while making it managable for other random job setups to do the event and I will be satisfied.

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I am not saying necessarily my RDM should be able to do NNI (Don't get me wrong, I would like it to be able to, meleeing I tend to out damage most other LDDs and some HDDs and none of my other jobs beat it in damage) I'm saying something other than just 4HDDs & 2SCH should be able to. The fact they made it so limited is just flat out stupid, your excluding what is basically 75% of jobs from participation, I know everyone has the ease of getting anything they want to 99 in 1~5 days, but that doesn't make it right that everyone is be limited to 5 choices they might not even like or enjoy just to get some gear for a different job.

Lets look at that again...

I am not saying necessarily my RDM should be able to do NNI

Get your head out of your ass for 10 seconds and read my post and you might actually understand something! I said, many times, I do not expect RDM to do NNI, I understand it can't, you want to know 1 main reason above all else? Its not enfeebling master, your full of shit, yes, it has A+ Enfeebling and Enfeebling merits, thats as far as it goes, if anything its Enhancing magic before enfeebling, Temper, Gain spells, Phalanx, Refresh these can help melee massively and are RDM only, Enfeebling is shared between WHM & BLM all the same except merits, meaning it has very little "mastery" when everything else shares it. But more importantly, a RDM cannot hope to melee without buffs. High enhancing magic near or past 500 are needed, also it can only fight for about 15~20 minutes before these buffs wear and it must reapply. NNI is a 30minute event of which you will not last with RDM buffs. Thus RDM is ineffective in this event due to time constraints and rebuffing being necessary.

Your ideas on melee RDM show how misguided you are in regards to it in general, no, enspells do not do the majority of your damage and you should not be doing en-shaving, you should have an Emp (or relic) with the weapon skills that do good damage, then you should use Gain-DEX for the accuracy from DEX about 25 off the spell alone. Accuracy is nice in RDM melee gear if you have the correct gear rather than stupid gear, and you can get alot of DEX as well, meaning you will hit, this was an old problem of melee RDM. CDC with a good WS setup can do very well, outside abyssea I have hit as high as 2.3k on DC mobs which I say is fairly damn good for how little people think of melee RDM. I fight & DD in VW because people know I can DD on RDM.

When you understand what a RDM does melee, you come back to me, I understand my flaws and strengths, I know why I can or cannot do NNI, I don't need you to tell me that when you also apparently don't know the job, few people do now days, they think RDM is SCH, no, SCH is the master of using light & dark magic in 1 job, RDM is a SCH, but with less magic focus, and the power to melee as well. You look at most RDMs, they don't know SCH exists,they think RDM is the only job with both White & Black magic. In other words, stop telling me how to play my job when you don't understand it yourself!


As for skill, yes, skill should matter, did I say "I R Uber pro you R all fail tards no skill fails" no, I said it should be skill based, when a developer pushes itself into the hole SE has where everything must be luck based its sad. At this point Embrava & Perfect Defense ruin the game, you know why? All events must anticipate the eventual use of either of these 2 super powers, and as such must allow for difficulty with either of them, in this case, Embrava, because its timed. I have no fear new Odin2.0 will be cake with the AV zerg setup. 12DDs 1COR 1SCH 1BRD 3SMN, tada, should probably win without effort I think, if your to slow you will die due to fail setup, if your fast enough event is to simple. If its multiple mobs and timed, then you need Embrava because it speeds up kills to unreal speed and gives you enough regen to cover minor damage, thats why Embrava will be the way to go for Limbus, Nyzul, Salvage, all of those events. The problem is without them the event is virtually impossible because if you count for a super power to be used, then without said super power, you are mortal and very vulnerable to the deadly foe before you that was designed to be killed with these super powers.

EDIT------------------------------------------------------------

In other words, SE has made it so where skill is hard to incorporate into this game by giving us 2 jobs with incredible abilitys to turn the other players into gods or demi-gods. This means they must balance all events around this idea, as shown by the final limit break, it would have been ok, the fight could have been fun, but with Embrava and PD it was much to simple, you see with a normal party, PLD tank, 3 DDs, healer, and support, it would have been nice. This however never happened, you see, through the use of both Embrava & PD players were able to find a few ways around this, most popular being the MNK zerg. 5MNKs and 1SMN will zerg the final limit break easy, the MNKs are unable to die, and with HF do enough damage they will take the Taru down with little effort.

Skill will exist when we can get rid of super powers being super powers and it becomes balanced again. SE talks about balance alot but they apparently were foolish enough to over look the effects of Embrava & PD as unbalanced, as such it has made the game incredibly hard to balance, I however have faith in SE, they do not seem like a stupid company, they have made games I have loved for years this included. Even if they have made RDM hard to maneuver around its faults, even if they have pushed the game into a luck reliant system due to 2 job abilitys/spells implemented into the game for 2 jobs, I would hope they can somehow fix this.

[Fupafighter]

Point is, red mage isn't even close to as effective as a well geared blu using CDC. Second, you didn't say anything about how to help the event become better. YOu just keep throwing out "it shouldn't be luck based'. They aren't going to listen to that. You actually have to give suggestions. Also 2.3k is kind of blah for weaponskill damage. An average DAMAGE DEALER does 2.5k on a weak weaponskill. That is why I feel red mage shouldn't melee. Seriously, just cave in and level another job and try to have fun playing it, or avoid the content. Or like I said earlier, find a way to not break the event and allow your "main" to go to the event and offer those suggestions to the dev team. Bickering about luck isn't going to do anything.

[Llana_Virren]

Fixed to reflect how i feel!.

Using BG as the focal point of the "everyone who wins is cheaters" - when the event first came out i do know alot of people who were winning JP or NA *they cheat JUST as much* , used flee tools , walked through walls to save alot of time. But alot of that stopped once the first group posted getting banned then you had the JP's GMing every person / group they saw enter NI. My groups so paranoid about that shit we make damn sure no ones flee botting or walking through shit because its unnecessary and the GM's are banning whole groups for even catching 1 person doing it.

Don't "fix" (ie. alter) a quote, it is misleading and rude. Just use your own post.

Also, no one is saying "everyone who wins is cheating." The issue is that only the cheaters have a worth-while shot at winning. Let's not lose perspective.

[Llana_Virren]

Or like I said earlier, find a way to not break the event. Bickering about luck isn't going to do anything.

Any event which requires Embrava x2 is broken, no matter how you look at it.
Any event which, after using Embrava x2, has a shit-rate chance of success, is beyond borked and should be fixed or removed entirely.

[Fupafighter]

Any event which requires Embrava x2 is broken, no matter how you look at it.
Any event which, after using Embrava x2, has a shit-rate chance of success, is beyond borked and should be fixed or removed entirely.

That means that fixing it so they don't need embrava would make it so the people with embrava would most likely clear 100% of the time. Thus they would basically have to remove embrava in general and nerf the monsters in order for the event to be doable by all variety of jobs. And thus they would have to either up the amount of "tokens" or w.e for a floor 100 from say 1-10 to balance it and make the gear extremely rare drops on floor 100. What do you suggest they do wiseguys? Since you all know how to make an MMO function.

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

In before lock.

[Llana_Virren]

That means that fixing it so they don't need embrava would make it so the people with embrava would most likely clear 100% of the time. Thus they would basically have to remove embrava in general and nerf the monsters in order for the event to be doable by all variety of jobs. And thus they would have to either up the amount of "tokens" or w.e for a floor 100 from say 1-10 to balance it and make the gear extremely rare drops on floor 100. What do you suggest they do wiseguys? Since you all know how to make an MMO function.

No... just no. The suggestions revolve around things such as:

1. Pause time after completing a floor objective. Does not apply to timers on spells/effects/etc, just the event.
*failing a condition such as "do not aggro/kill gears" will force time to continue to run.
*accomplishing a condition such as "do not aggro/kill gears" rewards bonus time.

2. Eliminate lobby time penalty.

3. Create conditions which can reward bonus time (like above) or via the activation of "additional" lamps (not order lamps or original jump lamp).

4. Grant a permanent movement speed bonus to characters while not actively engaged with a target.

5. Allow players to pre-set "jump to next floor" or "jump to random floor" and force an automatic warp upon objective completion.

Cheaters are going to cheat no matter what. Players will probably never not go Embrava x2. That's not the issue. The issue is that if you do not use cheats or use Embrava x2, you will almost certainly fail. Yes, it should be hard. But it should not be so heavily weighted on luck.

Put it this way. I'm going to use "estimated figures" for the sake of showing cause/effect. Do not assume these values to be inherently accurate themselves alone:

Currently, NI is 80% Luck/20% Skill.

Cheating tools save (primarily) time. Time is based mostly on the type of floor (luck-based), so Cheats change the figures to something like: 65% Luck / 15% skill / 20% Cheat tools

Cheat tools are not compensating for skill; they are compensating for the luck. Yes there is still a rediculous amount of luck factored in, but the ratio of Luck:Skill favors those who use cheats. We're talking about reducing the Luck factor, so that the difference between Cheat-tool runs, and non-cheat-tool runs, have a less significant impact than they do.

Final thought: "What do you suggest?" Everyone keeps asking this, and we keep providing responses. Everyone saying that the system is "perfect" as is, have yet to say why, except that it reduces the amount of the gear on the server (e-peen stroking); not that it reduces the number of gimps who have access to it.... Coincidence?

[Fupafighter]

So what you just suggested basically makes it so any random group can clear occasionally, while 2 sch 4 DD clear it 100% of the time then.

[Demon6324236]

Point is, red mage isn't even close to as effective as a well geared blu using CDC. Second, you didn't say anything about how to help the event become better. YOu just keep throwing out "it shouldn't be luck based'. They aren't going to listen to that. You actually have to give suggestions. Also 2.3k is kind of blah for weaponskill damage. An average DAMAGE DEALER does 2.5k on a weak weaponskill. That is why I feel red mage shouldn't melee. Seriously, just cave in and level another job and try to have fun playing it, or avoid the content. Or like I said earlier, find a way to not break the event and allow your "main" to go to the event and offer those suggestions to the dev team. Bickering about luck isn't going to do anything.

Like I said, I don't think you understand RDM melee, many people do it badly, your example is one way to do it badly, I have played RDM as my main since I started this game and I know how to do it right. My RDM does more than almost any BLU I have seen wielding an Almace thank you, also as I said, 2.3k is good for a job most people shit on especially when its on DCs, normally the DC mobs seem to take little from my other jobs, then again this may be due to the fact I refuse to make another Emp other than Almace...

As for fixing content, Ill repost the edit I made to my post...

SE has made it so where skill is hard to incorporate into this game by giving us 2 jobs with incredible abilitys to turn the other players into gods or demi-gods. This means they must balance all events around this idea, as shown by the final limit break, it would have been ok, the fight could have been fun, but with Embrava and PD it was much to simple, you see with a normal party, PLD tank, 3 DDs, healer, and support, it would have been nice. This however never happened, you see, through the use of both Embrava & PD players were able to find a few ways around this, most popular being the MNK zerg. 5MNKs and 1SMN will zerg the final limit break easy, the MNKs are unable to die, and with HF do enough damage they will take the Taru down with little effort.

Skill will exist when we can get rid of super powers being super powers and it becomes balanced again. SE talks about balance alot but they apparently were foolish enough to over look the effects of Embrava & PD as unbalanced, as such it has made the game incredibly hard to balance, I however have faith in SE, they do not seem like a stupid company, they have made games I have loved for years this included. Even if they have made RDM hard to maneuver around its faults, even if they have pushed the game into a luck reliant system due to 2 job abilitys/spells implemented into the game for 2 jobs, I would hope they can somehow fix this.

Embrava is forced same with PD, the reason is because when they made these they made a job ability that allows for invincibility zergs by DDs, when it was just PLD, no one would be able to do this, its even only 30seconds not 90, and also does not avoid magic, so far as I know PD is 60~90 seconds, is about 95% -DT effecting magic as well, and overall is overpowered. Embrava gives you a massive amount of TP/Tick, breaks Haste, and gives you HP enough to live through a fight with almost any mob worth fighting that isn't a NM with its regen, not counting Regen V which is a total of about 150HP/tick for 2 spells.

These 2 things are what break it, Nyzul is broken by making you need Embrava, but thats because the event had to have Embrava planed, just like I'm hoping Odin has some way to break Perfect Defense away, same with Arch-Limbus NMs, if they don't then this update is pointless. The reason I feel this is wrong is because of Perfect Defense, they have it simple, most NMs like Absolute Virtue have good drops and also are easily PDZerg-able, the drops are high rates and worth the kill. I expect Limbus, to be Embrava for floors, and PDZergs for bosses, simple and easy, difference is Limbus you get TEs which mean you do have luck still, but it takes a back seat roll, TEs can drop, or might not, but you do not need to rely on them as heavily as you do for NNI where floor jumps, contents of floors, objectives of floors, and locations of objectives of floors, are all random...



To answer your question in a simple way, the only way to fix Nyzul is to break it, if they take out the requirement for Embrava, then they will make the content to easy for people abusing Embrava, however it will be fair to those without it or who mainly use non-Heavy DD jobs. If they keep it how it is, its fair to people using 4HDDs & Embrava, but everyone else gets screwed so bad they never make it past floor 50(exaggeration). Point is they backed themselves into a corner, either they do nothing, and piss alot of people off because they cant do it, or they do something, and piss alot of people off for making it easier for people without 4HDDs+2SCH to do it while anyone with 4HDDs+2SCH does it easy.

[Fupafighter]

Then dynamis is broken. Abyssea too. Oh and VW. They all have certain job setups that succeed far superior to other setups. It's called strategy. people have been doing it for years now. And the blu's that you parse against must really suck if they can't break 3k CDC with all the gear choices they have for that weaponskill and blu traits and such. My cousin's pld/dnc can break 2.7k CDC on decent challenge mobs. No excuse that a blu couldn't. And why do DD need to have an empy to be good? Sam drg drk don't need an empy to do well in nyzle isle btw. I use draco couse on sam. Drk can use ANY high damage great sword, and dragoon can do well with a TOM polearm. Saying you need to build an empy to do well on those jobs doesn't make sense.