Thread: NEO Nyzul 2.0

Originally Posted by Fupafighter

I don't need to be rdm main to know how to play the job. I have friends that rock great sets on red mage. It's just a "lol" job atm. Plain and simple. It's basically a solo job now. You're basically saying I can't read gear sets and play on the test server. Just compare job weaponskill and tp sets and tell me how in the hell a red mage would come close to a blu.

While I think that you and Demon are both getting way off topic, I'll say this: You don't need to play a job to know how the basics around it work, however it has been consistently proven that in practice, those who switch to a job that they have little real experience in playing (especially in the case of mage jobs), frequently make "nooby" mistakes which, depending on the importance of the event, can mean the difference between success and failure.

However, I do think that if NI is adjusted (with some, if any of my suggestions, it would be possible for RDM or any other job to have a value in NI, the current design makes RDM (and other jobs) obsolete. This is beyond dispute. However, the difference between RDM and many other jobs is not in the damage dealt, but the survivability and endurance of the RDM over a contemporary melee (BLU, similar to RDM, can self-buff and self-heal, which is why I rarely place the two against one another as they are both "mages").... To repeat myself though: the current design makes RDM (and other jobs) obsolete.

That said, if "BLU melee" is the standard by which we measure melee effectiveness, I can point out quite a few DRKs, SAMs, DRGs, and WARs on my server, some of whom have Empies, which would fall short in that comparison. Similarly, I know of at least 3 RDMs who can out-parse BLUs. The conditions are not the same, and if you are comparing the "uberest RDM against the uberest BLU" you might have a case; however, there are many lolDRK, lolSAM, lolDRG, lolWAR, lolDD players who think they "don't need to be XXX main to know how to play the job" and get out-parsed by lolRDM, lolPUP, et al <.<

In summary: Nothing is ever absolute.

I'll settle the discussion. BLU and RDM both suck.

Originally Posted by Fupafighter

You honestly don't know the power of a well geared blu then 0.o. Comparing CDC blu to a CDC rdm is already putting that blu ahead. Then you don't even mention their ability to destroy with skillchain and their quick high damaging spells. All of which make blu a machine compared to rdm. Rdm can nuke, yes, but it is nowhere as effective as a blu. It's biased to say that rdm beats blu based on him being a rdm main. And yes, well geared jobs can beat gimp jobs, that's a fact. Also, I just checked him. Seems he is missing some important pieces in his builds if he wants to be an oober rdm. And why is he complaining about needing to level jobs for events if he has war sam drk AND sch 99. Maaaan gtfo.

I do know the power of a well-geared BLU; however I also know that not every WAR, BLU, DRK, SAM, etc out there, even those that are +2 on everything, know how to actually perform at their job, which is why "nothing is ever absolute."

There are BLUs out there that can be out-parsed by RDM, simply because they suck at BLU. I just want to make the point known to you that simply being a BLU, or WAR, or DRK, does not automatically make you good at that job or a better contributor to a NI run.

(I say "you" as a general term, I'm not saying you yourself fall into that category.)

Originally Posted by Fupafighter

I don't need to be rdm main to know how to play the job. I have friends that rock great sets on red mage. It's just a "lol" job atm. Plain and simple. It's basically a solo job now. You're basically saying I can't read gear sets and play on the test server. Just compare job weaponskill and tp sets and tell me how in the hell a red mage would come close to a blu.

Warning
Please excuse the following if you do not care about my favored optimum builds for RDM & BLU as I see it for TPing & CDCing as that is almost all it will pertain to. I understand this is partially a derailing of this thread and I hope it is understood I only do this to make a point...


Both Jobs Full Time

Main:Almace
Sub:Ephemeron

The reason for this is because they are the weapon in question, and the best TP sub-weapon.


Red Mage


TP Set


Ammo:White Tathlum
Head:Zelus Tiara
Neck:Houyi's Gorget
Earring1:Suppanomimi
Earring2:Brutal Earring
Body:Kudzu Aketon
Hands:Brego Gloves
Ring1:Rajas Ring
Ring2:Tyrant's Ring
Back:Atheling Mantle
Waist:Goading Belt
Legs:Calmecac Trousers
Feet:Ghadhab Nails


CDC Set


Ammo:Demonry Core
Head:Maat's Cap
Neck:Moepapa Medal
Earring1:Jupiter's Pearl
Earring2:Jupiter's Pearl
Body:Antares Harness
Hands:Alucinor Mitts
Ring1:Rajas Ring
Ring2:Thundersoul Ring
Back:Aife's Mantle
Waist:Light Belt
Legs:Tumbler Trunks
Feet:Lithe Boots


Blue Mage


TP Set


Ammo:White Tathlum
Head:Ocelomeh Headpiece +1
Neck:Houyi's Gorget
Earring1:Suppanomimi
Earring2:Brutal Earring
Body:Thaumas Coat
Hands:Enif Manopolas
Ring1:Tyrant's Ring
Ring2:Rajas Ring
Back:Atheling Mantle
Waist:Twilight Belt
Legs:Enkidu's Subligar
Feet:Gules Leggings +1


CDC Set


Ammo:Thunder Sachet
Head:Ocelomeh Headpiece +1
Neck:Moepapa Medal
Earring1:Jupiter's Pearl
Earring2:Jupiter's Pearl
Body:Toci's Harness
Hands:Athos's Gloves
Ring1:Rajas Ring
Ring2:Thundersoul Ring
Back:Aife's Mantle
Waist:Light Belt
Legs:Khepri Kecks
Feet:Thaumas Nails


Side By Side Stat Compare


TP Sets


Red Mage|Blue Mage


Defense+169|Defense+202
HP+15|HP+48
MP+15|MP+48
Haste+26%|Haste+25%
Attack+56|Attack+33
Accuracy+7|Accuracy+23
Evasion-5|Evasion+6
STR+20|STR+9
DEX+30|DEX+22
AGI+34|AGI+32
Store TP+25|Store TP+24
Subtle Blow+5|Subtle Blow+10
Double Attack+33%|Double Attack+13%
Triple Attack+2%|Triple Attack+3%
Quad Attack+0%|Quad Attack+3%
Regen+0|Regen+2
Damage Taken+2%|Damage taken+0%
Dual Wield+5%|Dual Wield+5%
Sword Skill+5|Sword Skill+5
Enmity+6|Enmity+5
Other misc. stats do not matter with this gear or this situation as neither job can use them.


CDC Sets

Red Mage|Blue Mage


Defense+148|Defense+220
HP+15|HP+0
MP+50|MP+0
Haste+7%|Haste+10%
Attack+18|Attack+34
Accuracy+16|Accuracy+18
Evasion+8|Evasion+6
STR+12|STR+36
DEX+92|DEX+88
VIT+4|VIT+4
AGI+48|AGI+68
INT+7|INT+7
MND+7|MND+16
CHR+12|CHR+7
Store TP+5|Store TP+5
Subtle Blow+5|Subtle Blow+13
Double Attack+20%|Double Attack+6%
Triple Attack+0%|Triple Attack+3%
Regen+0|Regen+1
Conserve TP+7|Conserve TP+7
Other misc. stats do not matter with this gear or this situation as neither job can use them.


Note:RDM sets are assuming the effects of 500 Enhancing Magic Temper & Gain-DEX are applied to the RDM resulting in +25 DEX & +20% Double Attack, no RDM should be meleeing without these on if using CDC and as such it is added!





Well I compared, they look fairly even to me, neither job seems to truly come out above the other with everything accounted for, if I missed any stats or such please let me know, I would be happy to fix it.

Originally Posted by Fupafighter

Seems he is missing some important pieces in his builds if he wants to be an oober rdm.

Might I point out that I have said many times I want more gear for my RDM? This means there is growth to be made and as such why should you expect to look at me and see all of the dream gear I have in many of the builds I have made? I make them to set myself goals to look forward to and to show friends what I think might be good if they did certain things with their jobs such as my DRK, SAM, SCH, WHM, BLM and now BLU builds I have.

And why is he complaining about needing to level jobs for events if he has war sam drk AND sch 99. Maaaan gtfo.

Leveled does not mean capped skills, with good gear (WAR, SAM and DRK are all in 4/5~5/5+1 with maybe 1~2 pieces +2, SCH is like a 2nd main sharing many of the same pieces of gear with my RDM and has full+2, making it very nice) Emp, Relic, experience, correct merits... If it were as simple as leveling a job and going in yes, those gimps you claim cant win, would win. Its not that simple apparently because you even said it yourself, so yes, I put work into my jobs before I use them. WAR was for red procs, DRK was because I liked the job before I got to 90 and found that I was a gimp for using a Scythe like I had all these years, and SAM because I needed it as a sub for both of the previous jobs, and I liked its TP control, causing me to level it further. I lost interest in these jobs because due to being to spread I was unable to accomplish much on my RDM, as such I ceased working on them nearly as much, along with my many other jobs, and have been focused on RDM.