Suggestion: Break the game, SE

[Zinato]

I said "breaking the game" as Aquilla wants to say, which is just a nice way of saying, "Let me godmode," turns people away from MMOs. I have no problem with drop rates being increased. None. Never been against that. What I am against is wanting Abyssea type buffs all the time, outside of Abyssea, while you're just strolling along the dunes.

I think I'm seeing two different conversations in this thread. I chose this quote because it sorta addresses both. I'm all for "breaking the game" but to be exact more like "breaking the game mold". The idea that I would like to see is new styles of combat, things that would prevent zerging, battles that are scripted, new types of events rather then gather 18 people beat up boss monster. (or in dynamis/limbus case pray you don't get links and wipe while proceeding to said boss monster.)

I'd also like to see players get larger stats from gear, buffs etc. (also, possibly progression of gear and example would be if dynamis gear made getting limbus gear easier, which in turn made nyzul easier to complete for even better gear.) Now to clarify, this doesn't require "godmode", godmode would be if players had an overwhelming advantage, to the contrary what I would prefer are stronger monsters to match. Larger more climatic battles where DMG in the 1000s is bouncing around, in reality player vs monster variables remain, however everything is on a grander scale. However, as can be guessed something of this magnitude would completely change the way we all play, as well as all previous content either outright outdated or needing overhauls to compensate. Thus, "breaking the game". That's my preference anyway.

Oh, and on the note of drop rates, yeah drop rate increase would be nice, and hopefully more content to go with it. (Rather than the current 1/300 should keep players busy while we spend a year making something new.) Sorry, its sometimes hard to tell who is posting about godmode vs not godmode and overhaul vs not overhaul.

[Shipp]

I don't think players are trying to be nasty or snide telling you to play on the test server. Its almost what your looking for. Ill state this now so I don't get accused of being in the " bring back 2005" or w/e you call them crowd. I'm all for adjusting drop rates, tweaking jobs, lowering huge Aoe to non targets from high tier NM's, and other positive changes.

On the other hand, what did you expect at 99? Did you think it was going to be like FFX where you can take characters fully around the grid, get their ultimate weapon, give them some form of auto-haste, and have an unstoppable killing machine that hits for 99,999 and is only hindered by the more gimmicky mobs in the arena?

If you and other players are that concerned about being unstoppable and seeing huge red numbers, you should advocate for a MMM maze/rune combo that grants a perma-brew effect while in said maze and caps your non-gear haste %. Make it all huge monsters that hit for crap and have huge hp pools. Auto-cap magic crit. rate. Make armor that only works in these "broken" mazes with stats like Str+100,Dex+100 Eva+100, crit. rate +50,Subtle blow +50, haste +25.999%( or hell uncap gear haste in there), on one slot . I know you continue to say you don't want godmode , but outside of Aby or other areas designed for that, what you propose would basically be. There is nothing wrong with this type of play in a controlled environment (like Aby). Or ask SE to rescale everything so you see big numbers if that's what you like (ie. 5k ws becomes 50k, same effect on target as 5k tho).

I 100% agree with this, and would have no objection to this type of godmoding, so long as it's limited like Abyssea is.

[Shipp]

Aquilla thinks that SE needs to break the game because pussyfooting pisses people off without making anyone happy. I've never heard anyone tell me 'Wow, I'm really happy that heavy metals only drop off VW and I won't finish my Empy weapon this year. Altana knows that if I did, I'd up an' quit the game right off.' or 'Wow, I'm so glad Arise is going to be super-rare. If this was something we could buy off a npc, I'd up and quit. Five minute weakness is sacred'.

Aquilla's also been playing the game since before CoP came out. Aquilla thinks talking in third person's pretty effing weird, so that ends now. Faffy *was* a joke at lv. 75. Faffy was killed by 6-man parties at lv75. Even if that particular NM with its spike flail and breathiness was somewhat unique, killing it every day for months would make even the biggest idiots in vana'diel experts.

Faf/Nidhogg was not done on a regular basis prior to ToAU as a 6 man group. I did the endgame circuit, was in the first NA/EU LS to down Dynamis Lord, one of the first NAs in sea, etc. I know what went on, and I'm sorry, but the zone typically had more than 100 people in it at spawn times. COULD it have been 6-manned back then? Probably, but it wasn't done since it was heavily camped, would have taken forever, and linkshells brought as many people as they could to claim. If you pulled them from behind, you got a spike flail which wiped everyone. Maybe you never fought HQ kings, I don't know, but it was common practice to bring a lot of people in case Nid popped.

Low drop rates are not a challenge. SE needs to understand this. I'm sorry that we gotta disagree on this taru, because I like summoners a lot, but they aren't. Perhaps taru needs to train Shiva to fetch him coffees in the morning. It'd make him a whole lot more personable and less likely to run off to the forums tryin' to argue for the sake of arguing.

Yes, we need to disagree when I just wrote prior to your post:

That doesn't mean I'm 100% happy with everything. That doesn't mean I don't think drop rates should be increased. That doesn't mean I don't think certain fights should be tweaked. It means that allowing us to godmode around Vana'diel is not the answer.

This is why I might be coming across as rude to you. Nearly every post of mine you have responded to, you haven't even read. It gets a tiny bit irritating when you keep making crap up, claiming we need the game broken, claiming a lot of people agree with you, claiming you disagree with me, and then turn around and parrot the exact same thing you are supposedly disagreeing with me about. I'm sorry, I might come across as an ass, but you're coming across as an airhead.

Also, I could change my job to BLM, RDM, WHM, BLU, SCH, etc. Take your pick, just picked SMN because it is the job that I have as my avatar picture on other forums.

Waiting for a NM to spawn for 3 hours also isn't a challenge -- but thankfully SE hasn't decided to go back to that particular mode of 'hard'.

Never said it was, and I'm glad we're not waiting 3 hours on windows anymore.

I also never said I want godmode. If you think getting stats+50 on end-game gear is godmode, you've been whipped pretty darn hard by SE.

If you don't think 50 stats makes a difference, you shouldn't even be complaining about endgame, because it's quite obvious you have no clue about the game.

I came to this realization fairly recently, actually. See, I zone into Aby, get all the wonderful aby buffs, and I can go around the zone killing regular mobs relatively quickly, tanking NMs for my friends, and man, it was fun. I zone out of aby, and lv99 is the same as lv75 -- I don't feel any more powerful. I don't do any more damage. Aby proved that SE's old gear progression was downright silly. Get cheap lv74 int+4 rings on blm -- save up for snow rings -- no difference. int+2 is a pointless increase. Aby proved that all those HQ items which went for millions of gils while giving an extra acc+1 or acc+2 were stupid. People who insisted on stopping leveling at 60 to get that hauby or that SH or that elemental torque were also, by extension, pretty damn silly. People who leveled in full AF to cap did just as well.

Incorrect, especially on the INT for BLM. INT directly affects damage. The formula is not hard to find. There is a soft cap where diminishing returns start after so much INT is obtained, but you're not going to reach that outside of Aby buffs.

And no, people in full AF did not do the same amount of damage and whatnot as people who wore what endgame shells dictated. Again, you're coming across as an airhead when these formulas have been around for years and are no mystery to the majority of players. Kind of making me doubt your claim that you played prior to CoP, but then that was already iffy with your hypothetical passed off as reality involving 6-manning Fafnir.

Now I'm supposed to pretend that str+8 and haste+4% are 'these stats are nuts'? Seriously? That little quote in itself proves how far out of touch SE is with any notion of 'fun'.

They make a difference.

I've also said a lot of times, and constipatetaru up there has ignored, that I do want lost content be made relevant and fun. There is nothing fun about most of the content currently in the game. Nobody wants to do content for 0 reward. That's been proven over and over again. People would, probably, do all sorts of stuff if they could get something decent out of it.

And like I've said several times, and you have ignored, several of us don't have this obsessive yearning for the game to change ON THE LEVEL that you want it to. It's a game, if you aren't having fun, quit after you voice your opinion. I didn't obsessively whine about WoW when I quit. I canceled, came back to XI, and have been having a blast ever since. Not all of us have as many issues as you do with the game. Some of us actually enjoy the game, which you are finding NO joy in, as your post states. Imagine that, different tastes.

Crafting has also been a joke for most of this game's lifespan -- it's 'low-drop rate' difficult, not 'hard', because it'll take you a stupid amount of a rare ingredient to level up at higher levels, and when you get that coveted lv100 you got nothing. Not even a T-shirt that says 'I leveled clothcraft to 100'.

Guess what, it's not required either. Yes, I agree that crafting should be changed somewhat, but that's mostly to do with the fact that a lot of crafts are pretty much useless at this point for making any respectable income. At least compared to the choco blinker trade.

Yeah, the game needs breaking, not tweaking. It's not anger that sinks a game - it's apathy. It's the feeling, upon seeing the latest update, that nothing in there excites you. Nothing in there makes you go 'oh, wow, I want to go play that.' or 'wow, I want that piece of gear.'

And not all of us feel the way you do. That is the thing you don't seem to understand. You want all of us who are somewhat satisfied with the game to bend to you and people who feel the same as you. You don't know where the majority is. You don't know whether the majority of people are sick of the game or whether they are content. You're trying to sit here high and mighty pretending you know why people are quitting, when you're overlooking the most obvious fact that the game is dated and is quite quaint in this MMO market. If you want a next-gen style MMO where you are over-powered and never have to play with another person, you go right ahead and sub up to any other current MMO. Some of us still like the dying breed of old-school style MMOs where grouping is still the main method to get things done, but with tweaks (yes tweaks, not game-breaking changes) so we can get stuff done in a timely manner, but still keep the old-school style fights, grouping, and basically experience.

Seasonal content has also been a joke for a very long time. Every once in a blue moon they come up with a new furnishing. That part is cool. However, to date, I have never heard anyone tell me 'Wow, I'm so glad Mumor is back this year. I love to cheer a pretend-celebrity on.'

I've never cared about seasonal content since about the second year I played XI. Before then, it was more of a compulsion that I felt I HAD to do it. Now I just don't care, and barely ever did it in WoW, either.

Over the years, I've seen lots of people go. I've seen people leave because a new MMO came out. I've seen a taru leave after three years of clothcraft lv 99. I've seen people leave because they've spent a week's worth of playtime trying to get an xp party on their lv65 drk. I've seen people leave because they couldn't beat ma'at.

Guess what, since I came back in January, I have seen 6 people return who are loving it. Anecdotal evidence. You're chock full.

I've also seen people leave because they just up and got bored. They didn't tell me 'I'm so powerful now. I kill everything.' They usually didn't say anything.

Yeah, I left WoW for that same reason, except I did say, "I feel overpowered and there is no challenge, raids are faceroll, instances are faceroll, and it is boring."

So what do we, as players, say? 'Crafting is supposed to be 'hard'. You can't expect to finish it in a month. Go spam ENMs for Galateia/farm money.' 'Make your own parties! Be nice to people! Get the best gear you can and you'll level up eventually!.' and 'Ma'at is supposed to be hard. Farm money! Get more potions! Update your gear!'.

What? I soloed Maat on both RDM and SMN yesterday in the span of 10 minutes. Total. You're a 99 and you're saying Maat is hard? One pred claw for 1k and about 10 seconds of melee wiped him out on SMN. Two thunder IVs and a blizzard IV wiped him out on RDM. Maybe I just misread that or something, but if you're having problems with Maat at 99, perhaps you should look into how stats affect your character since you think +50 is just not much difference at all.

'Go quit the game then and play WoW.'

Honestly, WoW sounds like the perfect game for you. Not because it's a bad game, or that stuff is crappy there. Just that exactly what you're asking for can be found in WoW. Inflated numbers, doing 100k+ DPS, shinies with +500 stats, etc.

And then, it gets awful lonely. How many people are still clinging onto the game only 'because of friends?'. What then? If this game isn't fun to play -- and I don't seem to be the only one who thinks that it isn't -- is the answer to go tweaking, or to put some actual innovation into the damn game? Something other than 'Hay guys, I took these HNMs that you used to fight and tossed them all into this new zone. Also, you get nothing new as a reward. Enjoy.'

Of course you're not the only one holding that opinion. I'm not the only one who thinks WoW got crazy stupid back in Nov/Dec, but I don't insinuate that the majority of people hold that same opinion. That is the problem, you are insinuating that, and you have 0% evidence for that aside from a couple people on this forum (which has the reputation of being filled with whiners and doomsday spouters) agreeing with you. Big shock there.

I think FF series has potential. A whole lot of potential. Despite SE trying to smother. I think that it'll take very little to make this game shine again. Unfortunately, it has to come from a place of courage -- not a place of 'gawd, if we make them too strong, they'll kill everything and quit!'

Now, I'm told 'Go play on the test server and godmode.' Jeez. Joking aside, it's a bit sad that people are told that. It is obvious that players want to be made more powerful, that the game needs to be more fun, faster, more engaging. If that wasn't the case, you wouldn't have this undercurrent of 'Go play on the test server.' and 'All you need is perma-Embrava.'

I feel powerful enough, so please stop trying to talk for everyone. I also take care in trying to keep my gear up to par, at the very least, something you don't seem to like doing since you think people in AF armor perform the same as someone in decked out gear with more stats. Perhaps that is your problem.

[Aquilla]

I think I'm seeing two different conversations in this thread. I chose this quote because it sorta addresses both. I'm all for "breaking the game" but to be exact more like "breaking the game mold"

Zinato nailed it! Thank you!

That's exactly what I am saying. And if people think this game is fine the way it is, that's okay too. They're allowed to make threads and posts and overlong responses. I don't think anyone in this thread was nasty or snide o.o; I'm a bit shocked that people would get that emotional about it, tbh.

Hey, to each his own. SE is still making games and making this game. I think that they can do a lot better than they are doing.

[FrankReynolds]

(which has the reputation of being filled with whiners and doomsday spouters) agreeing with you. Big shock there.

Really? your better than the whole forum now?

I also take care in trying to keep my gear up to par, at the very least, something you don't seem to like doing since you think people in AF armor perform the same as someone in decked out gear with more stats. Perhaps that is your problem.

I'm just going to pick this one out of several other obvious misconceptions that you drew from his / her post.

They were pointing out that pimping out your gear between level ??? and 75 is fairly pointless because even if you rock the worst gear, you will still reach 75 just as fast as pimped out guy. They were not trying to say that AF is good enough.

This conversation is really off topic, and you are arguing points that weren't even made.

[Anapingofness]

Really? your better than the whole forum now?




I'm just going to pick this one out of several other obvious misconceptions that you drew from his / her post.

They were pointing out that pimping out your gear between level ??? and 75 is fairly pointless because even if you rock the worst gear, you will still reach 75 just as fast as pimped out guy. They were not trying to say that AF is good enough.

This conversation is really off topic, and you are arguing points that weren't even made.

Very well put Frank and Zinato.

To Shipp: Buddy, I need you to read. Rather, skill up your reading comprehension or something.

Firstly, if you think that +50 of a stat is "godmode" I don't know what games you've been playing but it sure as hell isn't WoW and itsn't FFXI because in neither game is +50 of a stat a condition of "godmode".

Secondly, it is absolutely ridiculous that my stats have only received very marginal increases from lvl 75 to 99. (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻) !!

Which leads me to my third point. Str+8 and Haste+4% is *not* amazing for a end game piece for lvl 99. Endgame gear at 75 gave more stats than that and that's not saying much. Str+8/Haste+4% at lvl 99 should make you go (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻) !

Those stats in my opinion are better suited for lvl 30-40, not lvl 99.

P.S. Also, my e-penis is SO much bigger than your e-penis... but I didn't take five pages to say that.

[Duelle]

I said look at sub numbers since Blizzard made them easy

Unless I missed those reports, or you somehow work for Blizzard and know something on the inside, the last quarterly report they released with the info on subscription drops accounted to prior 3.3, AKA raid finder, the Hour of Twilight dungeons and The Fall of Deathwing. That's the one where they lost around 300K~ subs. As I said, dungeon tuning, changes to classes and PvP are to blame.

After Blizzard nerfed the hell out of Cata dungeons and raids, have you kept up with subs? They're still dropping.

A lot of people came back with 3.3. Problem is a good number also left when Old Republic launched. I'd know, as most of my guild left for TOR and still haven't returned (so much for the TORtanic meme).

Going to Aquilla's point for this thread, I think some emphasis should be placed on fixing/retuning/redesigning some of the older events and systems. Probably the thing I dislike most about the FFXI developers ("balance" notwithstanding) is that they don't sit down and say "boy did we screw that up. Let's try to do some redesigning/remaking/whatever sometime down the road". I don't mean just evoliths, but garrison, eco-warrior, expeditionary forces, chocobo raising (land transportation in general), pankration, conquest as a whole and so on. A lot of them are either badly designed, incomplete, cling to relevancy due to one or two items, or have to be turned into requirements for endgame events to not look like wastes of development time.

[Zumi]

Blizzard is trying to get people to come back to play their game are giving a free level 80 character along with an upgrade to cataclysm regardless of how many expansions they have on their account. Needless to say the current players weren't too happy and wanted their own free level 80 character.

[Shipp]

Really? your better than the whole forum now?

Never said I'm better than the whole forum, I'm just stating what seems to be the opinion from nearly every other forum. Maybe you only check this one, I don't know. I've read what I described on more than one other forum, and numerous times at that. OP even made a comment about the type of reputation this place has.

I'm just going to pick this one out of several other obvious misconceptions that you drew from his / her post.

They were pointing out that pimping out your gear between level ??? and 75 is fairly pointless because even if you rock the worst gear, you will still reach 75 just as fast as pimped out guy. They were not trying to say that AF is good enough.

This conversation is really off topic, and you are arguing points that weren't even made.

Except you wouldn't reach it just as fast, because you wouldn't have been invited as fast as someone who had pimped out gear. Also, I'm pretty sure this comment states AF was good enough to get to 75 in.

Get cheap lv74 int+4 rings on blm -- save up for snow rings -- no difference. int+2 is a pointless increase. Aby proved that all those HQ items which went for millions of gils while giving an extra acc+1 or acc+2 were stupid. People who insisted on stopping leveling at 60 to get that hauby or that SH or that elemental torque were also, by extension, pretty damn silly. People who leveled in full AF to cap did just as well.

People who pimped their gear were silly. People who got things like Scorp Harness were silly. People who wore Snow rings were silly. People who level in AF did just as well.

Except that's not the case, never has been, nor will it ever be.

[saevel]

Blizzard is trying to get people to come back to play their game are giving a free level 80 character along with an upgrade to cataclysm regardless of how many expansions they have on their account. Needless to say the current players weren't too happy and wanted their own free level 80 character.

The problem with many MMO's is that as they age so does their population and content level. A player joining FFXI right now has so much stuff they need to do before they can join the rest of the game that it's daunting and highly discouraging. They have over a years worth of work (Zilart / CoP / ToAU / Nation Quests / Dyna wins / Genkai / ect..) before their able to do what we do right now. WoW is no different, a new player would have to grind up their toon and do tons of quests and faction farming just to be somewhat acceptable for raid groups. Again that is very daunting to new players, or even older players returning and starting new. SE's idea is to make all old content easy to do and just let XP flow like a flood (Abyssea / GoV), WoW's was to give out a level 80 char to new players.