Suggestion: Break the game, SE

[Camiie]

Any good shell has one of these already. And people who are abusd by LS leaders should question the research they did before choosing to join that shell.

It doesn't always work that way, dear. A previously good shell can go south for any number of reasons.

[Mahoro]

It doesn't always work that way, dear. A previously good shell can go south for any number of reasons.

We are talking in vague hypotheticals, but a shell abusing its members typically means there was a flaw in the rules used to set up the shell.

[Zeratoangel]

You know, this is the exact same mindset of WoW players. Look how many subs dropped after Cata turned the game into easy-mode. Also, BC was a challenging expansion which most players actually did NOT raid, only the elites. I don't know where you're coming up with your info, but you're sorely mistaken and misrepresenting the facts. Blizzard has even stated that Cata's raids were easier because only a small portion of the playerbase had been raiding from Vanilla through WoTLK.

You are trying to bring a Cata-style revamp into XI, and Cata is the entire reason why I came back to XI. It's trash in terms of endgame. If you want easy events where you get the best gear, go play any other MMO, don't try to turn one of the last MMOs into that.

LMAO you got that ALL WRONG. Cata did the complete opposite of easy mode, the only thing easy in Cata was leveling. Cata's raids were INTENSE when they were released and the heroic modes still are. The difficulty INCREASE in Cata is what drove alot of people away.

Most players didnt raid in BC?? I guess all those Kara/Gruul/Mag/SSC/TK pugs didnt exist. You MUST be referring to the last raid of the expansion, The Sunwell, because all the raids aside from Black Temple and the Sunwell were quite easy even for casuals.

And again, Cata raids were easier? I'm pretty sure you're talking about WotLK. Wrath had the highest amount of raiders at any point of WoW's life. Mainly because, it was so easy to just gear up and jump in and on normal mode it was a complete faceroll. Cata had roadblocks just in heroic dungeons not even counting normal raids...try again.

Most of the people on these forums despise WoW and have no idea what you're talking about, but I do. I'm usually not a person that picks apart posts but this just disturbed me with the amount of misinformation in it. PLEASE get YOUR FACTS straight.

(Disclaimer: I'm not attacking you, I'm just attacking your "information". So don't take offense and attempt to use personal attacks like so many others do.)

[Zeratoangel]

Erm, if you're gonna mention WoW, at least get the facts right. The majority of the subcriptioin dip was because Cataclysm made dungeons and raid content much harder at the entry level than they were back in Wrath of the Lich King. This in effect meant tanks and healers became super picky over who they wanted to run with, which made pugging really difficult. Combine that with the fact that PvP was an utter mess for 2/3 of the expansion and there's your answer. It wasn't until gearing and content as a whole was made more accessible that people started coming back (AKA 3.3 between the Hour of Twilight dungeons, Fall of deathwing AND raid finder).

In short, when the expansion launched they went back to a design model where people were basically bashing their head against a wall in trying to kill things in dungeons and it pissed a lot of people off. It diluted the tank and healer pool because you had less people wanting to take up those roles due to how much more difficult content was, and PvP was a mess because of several class changes for most of the expansion. You can tell it was bad when Blizzard chose to cut an entire tier of content just to wrap up Cataclysm as soon as possible and move on to whatever is next.

You beat me to it, it seems lmao. You were just a bit gentler than I was :3

[Psxpert2011]

There's a lot of poo-flinging that goes on around here. However, there's also a ton of great suggestions that often go unanswered.

I'll grant that, over the years, most people change tastes. There's no going back, and no amount of rose-colored nostalgia is going to recreate an experience. I'm not asking to go back to the days of 2k/hr dunes parties.

I'm saying that the game needs to be broken.

FFXI has gone threadbare. Yeah, people play for friends -- but it's getting to be a lonely journey as the populace inevitably shrinks.

Yes, One idea I have is: Every full moon, let everyone receive +50 on every stats, 20% movement speed and 20% haste to their normal actions! That's because the freaks come out and aggro! The MPK patch is lifted and Goblin Smithy has a taste for Whms! :P

I have more creative juices than that:
Let's go crazy! When the moon is RED, it's PVP night everywhere, where there's no musical tracks, primarily the ballista zones... Forget that- make it every zone!

SE, your recent additions and updates keep proving to your players that you don't know where the game's true potential lies.

Yeah, people, in general, will always whine. Aby broke the game, and it was fun. A blm could go oneshot a mob. A monk could go /war and solo VTs without stopping. Just about any job, no matter how well or poorly geared, could go in and get something done. It was fun.

To put it simply: exciting announcement right now is not a spiky red body piece with a tiny bit of str/dex and crit hit+. Multiply those stats by ten, and it'd be exciting.

Exciting won't be a raise spell that reduces my weakness time by 2 minutes, that will be 'extremely difficult to obtain'. Exciting would be making raise instacast, giving whms full-life.

Flying chocobos would be exciting. Adding the ability to call your personal chocobo in every outdoor area in the game, past/northlands included, would be exciting.

Minor upgrades/sidegrades/downgrades aren't exciting. They aren't upsetting. They're completely apathy-inducing. Break the game, SE. I realize that players of games don't make the best developers, but the players overall seem to be saying that they do not want any more piddly half-steps in a meandering way.

You've got a decent bit of nostalgia left. Unfortunately, that currency is wearing thin. One by one, your players will leave, unless you shake the game up, unless you make it alive again.

that is all.

I don't think the DEV team are really enjoying their job along side FFxi anymore... I think they lost their fire. There's probably people there who never played/ enjoyed any FF game or played it just enough and said "meh"...



I'm probably sure if they work with potential fans that grew up with the game, a lot more sense will come out in future updates.

[Shipp]

Erm, if you're gonna mention WoW, at least get the facts right. The majority of the subcriptioin dip was because Cataclysm made dungeons and raid content much harder at the entry level than they were back in Wrath of the Lich King. This in effect meant tanks and healers became super picky over who they wanted to run with, which made pugging really difficult. Combine that with the fact that PvP was an utter mess for 2/3 of the expansion and there's your answer. It wasn't until gearing and content as a whole was made more accessible that people started coming back (AKA 3.3 between the Hour of Twilight dungeons, Fall of deathwing AND raid finder).

In short, when the expansion launched they went back to a design model where people were basically bashing their head against a wall in trying to kill things in dungeons and it pissed a lot of people off. It diluted the tank and healer pool because you had less people wanting to take up those roles due to how much more difficult content was, and PvP was a mess because of several class changes for most of the expansion. You can tell it was bad when Blizzard chose to cut an entire tier of content just to wrap up Cataclysm as soon as possible and move on to whatever is next.

Oh wait, which quarter was it that WoW started gaining subs back? Oh right, it hasn't. PvP has always been a mess in WoW, that's nothing new. In Vanilla people complained about Rogues. In BC people complained about Locks. In WoTLK, it was DKs and Pallies. In Cata, it has been mages.

Dungeons have been easy long prior to 3.3 HoT dungeons. Even the Zul dungeons were faceroll easy by last summer. Instances weren't more difficult, you just couldn't AoE everything down without CC from the beginning of the expansion. WoTLK was the exact same way when it was launched, but people sat in ICC gear for nearly a year before new content, so they got used to just AoE gunning instances.

It also needs to make the content to match. Low drop rates are not challenge, and never have been. Faffy was never a challenge to kill - in fact, it was a joke, doable with six people who knew which end of the pointy weapon went into the mob.

Let me guess, you started in ToAU?

I was more annoyed at the person I quoted suggesting that tuning things down and making stuff accessible drives people away, when both this game and WoW have proven the exact opposite.

I didn't say tweaking drop rates or making things more accessible turns people away. I said "breaking the game" as Aquilla wants to say, which is just a nice way of saying, "Let me godmode," turns people away from MMOs. I have no problem with drop rates being increased. None. Never been against that. What I am against is wanting Abyssea type buffs all the time, outside of Abyssea, while you're just strolling along the dunes.

[Shipp]

LMAO you got that ALL WRONG. Cata did the complete opposite of easy mode, the only thing easy in Cata was leveling. Cata's raids were INTENSE when they were released and the heroic modes still are. The difficulty INCREASE in Cata is what drove alot of people away.

Most players didnt raid in BC?? I guess all those Kara/Gruul/Mag/SSC/TK pugs didnt exist. You MUST be referring to the last raid of the expansion, The Sunwell, because all the raids aside from Black Temple and the Sunwell were quite easy even for casuals.

And again, Cata raids were easier? I'm pretty sure you're talking about WotLK. Wrath had the highest amount of raiders at any point of WoW's life. Mainly because, it was so easy to just gear up and jump in and on normal mode it was a complete faceroll. Cata had roadblocks just in heroic dungeons not even counting normal raids...try again.

Most of the people on these forums despise WoW and have no idea what you're talking about, but I do. I'm usually not a person that picks apart posts but this just disturbed me with the amount of misinformation in it. PLEASE get YOUR FACTS straight.

(Disclaimer: I'm not attacking you, I'm just attacking your "information". So don't take offense and attempt to use personal attacks like so many others do.)

I never said Cata raids were easy at launch. I said look at sub numbers since Blizzard made them easy, and I'm sorry, but if you still have problems with any of Cata's raids at this point, I don't know what to say. Aquilla's whole argument is that breaking the game and making it easy (when she argues that stuff is already easy, baffling, I know) will bring in new subs, it'll revive the game, etc. After Blizzard nerfed the hell out of Cata dungeons and raids, have you kept up with subs? They're still dropping.

I've played WoW since '06, I don't hate the game, I just don't like what it has become. I have no reason to make up stuff about WoW. Currently, the game is face-roll easy. It has been since about summer. A lot of the raids were padded with artificial difficulty, much like AV in FFXI. He wasn't difficult, it's the, "Oh crap instant death everywhere for being unlucky," mechanics that inflated his difficulty. Blizzard tried the same type of thing in Cata, and I hated it there too. I agree that those mechanics are not challenging, just annoying, however Blizzard has severely dumbed down the game that requires a skill level lower than WoTLK did... yet subs still keep a'droppin'. Thus my point, "breaking the game" and allowing us to godmode is not the answer.

That doesn't mean I'm 100% happy with everything. That doesn't mean I don't think drop rates should be increased. That doesn't mean I don't think certain fights should be tweaked. It means that allowing us to godmode around Vana'diel is not the answer.

[Aquilla]

Aquilla thinks that SE needs to break the game because pussyfooting pisses people off without making anyone happy. I've never heard anyone tell me 'Wow, I'm really happy that heavy metals only drop off VW and I won't finish my Empy weapon this year. Altana knows that if I did, I'd up an' quit the game right off.' or 'Wow, I'm so glad Arise is going to be super-rare. If this was something we could buy off a npc, I'd up and quit. Five minute weakness is sacred'.

Aquilla's also been playing the game since before CoP came out. Aquilla thinks talking in third person's pretty effing weird, so that ends now. Faffy *was* a joke at lv. 75. Faffy was killed by 6-man parties at lv75. Even if that particular NM with its spike flail and breathiness was somewhat unique, killing it every day for months would make even the biggest idiots in vana'diel experts.

Low drop rates are not a challenge. SE needs to understand this. I'm sorry that we gotta disagree on this taru, because I like summoners a lot, but they aren't. Perhaps taru needs to train Shiva to fetch him coffees in the morning. It'd make him a whole lot more personable and less likely to run off to the forums tryin' to argue for the sake of arguing.

Waiting for a NM to spawn for 3 hours also isn't a challenge -- but thankfully SE hasn't decided to go back to that particular mode of 'hard'.

I also never said I want godmode. If you think getting stats+50 on end-game gear is godmode, you've been whipped pretty darn hard by SE.

I came to this realization fairly recently, actually. See, I zone into Aby, get all the wonderful aby buffs, and I can go around the zone killing regular mobs relatively quickly, tanking NMs for my friends, and man, it was fun. I zone out of aby, and lv99 is the same as lv75 -- I don't feel any more powerful. I don't do any more damage. Aby proved that SE's old gear progression was downright silly. Get cheap lv74 int+4 rings on blm -- save up for snow rings -- no difference. int+2 is a pointless increase. Aby proved that all those HQ items which went for millions of gils while giving an extra acc+1 or acc+2 were stupid. People who insisted on stopping leveling at 60 to get that hauby or that SH or that elemental torque were also, by extension, pretty damn silly. People who leveled in full AF to cap did just as well.

Now I'm supposed to pretend that str+8 and haste+4% are 'these stats are nuts'? Seriously? That little quote in itself proves how far out of touch SE is with any notion of 'fun'.

I've also said a lot of times, and constipatetaru up there has ignored, that I do want lost content be made relevant and fun. There is nothing fun about most of the content currently in the game. Nobody wants to do content for 0 reward. That's been proven over and over again. People would, probably, do all sorts of stuff if they could get something decent out of it.
Crafting has also been a joke for most of this game's lifespan -- it's 'low-drop rate' difficult, not 'hard', because it'll take you a stupid amount of a rare ingredient to level up at higher levels, and when you get that coveted lv100 you got nothing. Not even a T-shirt that says 'I leveled clothcraft to 100'.

Yeah, the game needs breaking, not tweaking. It's not anger that sinks a game - it's apathy. It's the feeling, upon seeing the latest update, that nothing in there excites you. Nothing in there makes you go 'oh, wow, I want to go play that.' or 'wow, I want that piece of gear.'

Seasonal content has also been a joke for a very long time. Every once in a blue moon they come up with a new furnishing. That part is cool. However, to date, I have never heard anyone tell me 'Wow, I'm so glad Mumor is back this year. I love to cheer a pretend-celebrity on.'

Over the years, I've seen lots of people go. I've seen people leave because a new MMO came out. I've seen a taru leave after three years of clothcraft lv 99. I've seen people leave because they've spent a week's worth of playtime trying to get an xp party on their lv65 drk. I've seen people leave because they couldn't beat ma'at.

I've also seen people leave because they just up and got bored. They didn't tell me 'I'm so powerful now. I kill everything.' They usually didn't say anything.

So what do we, as players, say? 'Crafting is supposed to be 'hard'. You can't expect to finish it in a month. Go spam ENMs for Galateia/farm money.' 'Make your own parties! Be nice to people! Get the best gear you can and you'll level up eventually!.' and 'Ma'at is supposed to be hard. Farm money! Get more potions! Update your gear!'.

'Go quit the game then and play WoW.'

And then, it gets awful lonely. How many people are still clinging onto the game only 'because of friends?'. What then? If this game isn't fun to play -- and I don't seem to be the only one who thinks that it isn't -- is the answer to go tweaking, or to put some actual innovation into the damn game? Something other than 'Hay guys, I took these HNMs that you used to fight and tossed them all into this new zone. Also, you get nothing new as a reward. Enjoy.'

I think FF series has potential. A whole lot of potential. Despite SE trying to smother. I think that it'll take very little to make this game shine again. Unfortunately, it has to come from a place of courage -- not a place of 'gawd, if we make them too strong, they'll kill everything and quit!'

Now, I'm told 'Go play on the test server and godmode.' Jeez. Joking aside, it's a bit sad that people are told that. It is obvious that players want to be made more powerful, that the game needs to be more fun, faster, more engaging. If that wasn't the case, you wouldn't have this undercurrent of 'Go play on the test server.' and 'All you need is perma-Embrava.'

[Aquilla]

Gobblin' goblins, I wrote a lot. Phew!

[llello]

I don't think players are trying to be nasty or snide telling you to play on the test server. Its almost what your looking for. Ill state this now so I don't get accused of being in the " bring back 2005" or w/e you call them crowd. I'm all for adjusting drop rates, tweaking jobs, lowering huge Aoe to non targets from high tier NM's, and other positive changes.

On the other hand, what did you expect at 99? Did you think it was going to be like FFX where you can take characters fully around the grid, get their ultimate weapon, give them some form of auto-haste, and have an unstoppable killing machine that hits for 99,999 and is only hindered by the more gimmicky mobs in the arena?

If you and other players are that concerned about being unstoppable and seeing huge red numbers, you should advocate for a MMM maze/rune combo that grants a perma-brew effect while in said maze and caps your non-gear haste %. Make it all huge monsters that hit for crap and have huge hp pools. Auto-cap magic crit. rate. Make armor that only works in these "broken" mazes with stats like Str+100,Dex+100 Eva+100, crit. rate +50,Subtle blow +50, haste +25.999%( or hell uncap gear haste in there), on one slot . I know you continue to say you don't want godmode , but outside of Aby or other areas designed for that, what you propose would basically be. There is nothing wrong with this type of play in a controlled environment (like Aby). Or ask SE to rescale everything so you see big numbers if that's what you like (ie. 5k ws becomes 50k, same effect on target as 5k tho).