Real PvP can we have it PLEASE S.E

[Rohelius]

You say it like AoE sleepga >All.... Poison pots anyone? lol rdm-pld-blu are good strong 1v1 but in team battles good strategy beats anything, this is after all Final Fantasy.

[saevel]

You say it like AoE sleepga >All.... Poison pots anyone? lol rdm-pld-blu are good strong 1v1 but in team battles good strategy beats anything, this is after all Final Fantasy.

I understand your thinking that sleepga is used to sleep people, it's not.

Sleepga is used because not only does it wipe shadows, but it also cause's the sleep status effect. Even with a DoT on it will take one game tick to wake up, meaning that for approx 3s your standing there slept. This gives the RDM time to apply silence / paralyze to block reapplication of utsusemi and to force you to go onto the defense. After you wake up the RDM's next move will be Sleep 1, followed by bind or grav. Then it turns into a slow drawn out kiting match where the RDM is keeping you debuffed (silence / para / slow / poison II) and leeching your HP away with Drain / Aspir. Eventually you will die, it's only a matter of time. Sab Poison II is 20hp/tick, followed by Bio II for 5~6 and three of the ele debuffs for 5~6 each. That much -HP/tick is going to kill even the Aegis PLD tank from earlier, the one that sat there and had a HF VS MNK beat on him for five min while disengaged.

RDM/BLM is the cheapest pvp combo in the game, the RDM job itself was so bad that SE had to make nearly every NM created in the last few years immune to all their abilities.

When your talking "team work" you can spout out about strategy all you want. Ultimately it'll be three vs three, meaning no matter how you stack one team to kill a single RDM, the RDM/BLM's team will have two more people. Imagine that monstrously annoying debuff from above, but coupled with a BLU running up and killing you in under 10s while keeping you stunned.

BLU looks like,
A.Claws (remove shadows)
Head Butt
Disseverment (high damage, 18hp/tick poison)
CA, Efflux Q.Continum
Sudden Lunge
A.Spikes

And if for some reason your ~still~ alive at this point, finish with Quadra Strike and possibly a Goblin Rush.

Heck RDM/BLM + BLU x 2, the BLU's zerg down two other team members, the RDM kites the last until the BLU's are finished. No matter how you shuffle it around, RDM BLU and PLD are so incredibly powerful vs squishy things (read: players) that they'll always win.

Wait .. you think it's unfair that the BLU destroyed your WHM before bothering with the MNK or SAM on your team? You think it's not right that the RDM kept your two heavy hitters enfeebled into oblivion while the BLU's worked over your healer, then moved onto each of them in turn. That is how PvP goes, the weakest members will always be picked off first.

[Urteil]

I understand your thinking that sleepga is used to sleep people, it's not.

Sleepga is used because not only does it wipe shadows, but it also cause's the sleep status effect. Even with a DoT on it will take one game tick to wake up, meaning that for approx 3s your standing there slept. This gives the RDM time to apply silence / paralyze to block reapplication of utsusemi and to force you to go onto the defense. After you wake up the RDM's next move will be Sleep 1, followed by bind or grav. Then it turns into a slow drawn out kiting match where the RDM is keeping you debuffed (silence / para / slow / poison II) and leeching your HP away with Drain / Aspir. Eventually you will die, it's only a matter of time. Sab Poison II is 20hp/tick, followed by Bio II for 5~6 and three of the ele debuffs for 5~6 each. That much -HP/tick is going to kill even the Aegis PLD tank from earlier, the one that sat there and had a HF VS MNK beat on him for five min while disengaged.

RDM/BLM is the cheapest pvp combo in the game, the RDM job itself was so bad that SE had to make nearly every NM created in the last few years immune to all their abilities.

When your talking "team work" you can spout out about strategy all you want. Ultimately it'll be three vs three, meaning no matter how you stack one team to kill a single RDM, the RDM/BLM's team will have two more people. Imagine that monstrously annoying debuff from above, but coupled with a BLU running up and killing you in under 10s while keeping you stunned.

BLU looks like,
A.Claws (remove shadows)
Head Butt
Disseverment (high damage, 18hp/tick poison)
CA, Efflux Q.Continum
Sudden Lunge
A.Spikes

And if for some reason your ~still~ alive at this point, finish with Quadra Strike and possibly a Goblin Rush.

Heck RDM/BLM + BLU x 2, the BLU's zerg down two other team members, the RDM kites the last until the BLU's are finished. No matter how you shuffle it around, RDM BLU and PLD are so incredibly powerful vs squishy things (read: players) that they'll always win.

Wait .. you think it's unfair that the BLU destroyed your WHM before bothering with the MNK or SAM on your team? You think it's not right that the RDM kept your two heavy hitters enfeebled into oblivion while the BLU's worked over your healer, then moved onto each of them in turn. That is how PvP goes, the weakest members will always be picked off first.

I care about 1v1 because a person who can stand against all is much better on a team than someone who can hardly stand on their own two feet. Teams are often used to hide your shortcomings and take place in victories that weren't really yours.

That being said, I am very good on a team, and I enjoy team Ballista. However quite frankly most of you including the guy I quote have no idea what you are talking about.


The fact that you'd sub BLM on RDM means that you're terrible, this is the problem with amateurs go around spouting opinions that cloud everyone else's judgement, irresponsible.

Your ideas around BLU revolve around physical spells which have short casting range and can easily be avoided by movement.

What kind of shit BLU doesn't use CC spells and expect someone to stand still near them, where are the magical blue spells. You didn't even mention Absolute Terror which is the REAL broken thing about BLU. The reason why the perception of "PvP isn't balanced" isn't because of the basic problems that come into every MMORPG, its because people like you come around and spout torrents of feces that people believe. Honestly there is pretty good balance, where many jobs considered to only "support" stand a hell of a chance against more "traditional" jobs and through proper gear choices you can take enfeebling power away from jobs that rely on it.

Get resistance gear, explore the options like CHR meva weapons vs enfeebling happy targets, or Eva swords for martial jobs, get outside of the box.


/SCH makes Sleepga worthless you really should be using break.

Are you living in 2007? And even then your strategy is pure penis.

What kind of piss WHM are you talking about? WHM can easily hit 50% pdt self haste buff against all debuffs and have decent WS with Flash Nova (unavoidable, magic damage they can rotate with flash.)

Bard is crazy with Duradabla with empyrean/mandau. They can hit 50% pdt, debuff you into oblivion and rotate dispels rendering buffs worthless, NEARLY IMMUNE TO SILENCE without gear, and on top of that they have access to AoE/ Single target light sleep and Dark sleep if they sub scholar. Oh and you can't interrupt their spells unless you time stun/whatever perfectly because of the bar finishes and they are un-stunned it fires anyway.

Bard can rotate 3 powerful songs to cater itself to any target

Transfer to Phoenix and if you can beat my Dark Knight I'll give you 41 100 Byne Bills, let's record it.
I bet you don't even have a Flawless ribbon or augmented Vunkerl Islet rings, and from what it sounds like you don't know the value of -DT gear.

Mana wall + -DT gear on a BLM? Get out of here.

You sir need to sit down, or transfer and fight me in about 25 minutes.
I'll bend you over 1v1., even a COR/SCH would just blow through this nonsense. Shit.

Bring: BLU/SCH RDM/BLM RDM/SCH PLD or whatever
And I hope you have a Tizona, Aegis + Excal/Burtgang or something fabulous.

[Jackaverted]

Sleepga is used because not only does it wipe shadows, but it also cause's the sleep status effect. Even with a DoT on it will take one game tick to wake up, meaning that for approx 3s your standing there slept. This gives the RDM time to apply silence / paralyze to block reapplication of utsusemi and to force you to go onto the defense. After you wake up the RDM's next move will be Sleep 1, followed by bind or grav.

If your intent is to wipe shadows, as a Red Mage you have Diaga which has a casting time of 1.5 seconds (half the sleepga casting time) for 12 MP and a very quick recast timer. Because of that, you shouldn't need to worry about landing Silence /immediately/, instead your first move should usually be Gravity. Even if you silence an opponent that relies on shadows, they can just flee away in attempt to waste the duration partially. With Gravity they cannot flee away, nor can they get close enough to you in order to start pressuring you into defensive action. This is also a wonderful time to implement Saboteur, as it enhances Gravity to the point of near-immobility. And if they get shadows up again, oh look Diaga is back up and now all shadow timers are down, allowing for enfeebling without needing to immediately silence. Addle+Slow combination sends recast timers straight to hell. Or, you can even Diaga > Break (since the DoT damage from Diaga does not cancel Break) and have enough time to land every enfeeble you wish.

Then it turns into a slow drawn out kiting match where the RDM is keeping you debuffed (silence / para / slow / poison II) and leeching your HP away with Drain / Aspir. Eventually you will die, it's only a matter of time. Sab Poison II is 20hp/tick, followed by Bio II for 5~6 and three of the ele debuffs for 5~6 each. That much -HP/tick is going to kill even the Aegis PLD tank from earlier, the one that sat there and had a HF VS MNK beat on him for five min while disengaged.

DoT kiting is also not a very reliable option for PvP. Even if you can successfully keep a target away from you for a while, resistance to Gravity/Bind would skyrocket too quickly to be able to maintain distance for fifteen minutes. There is really no "eventually," the longer the fights last, the weaker an enfeebler will become. To be honest someone could even allow a Red Mage to kite him at the beginning, just to build resistance to major enfeebles and be able to attack without being impeded.

Sab Poison II is 20hp/tick

What is this, I don't even.

[saevel]

If your intent is to wipe shadows, as a Red Mage you have Diaga which has a casting time of 1.5 seconds (half the sleepga casting time) for 12 MP and a very quick recast timer. Because of that, you shouldn't need to worry about landing Silence /immediately/, instead your first move should usually be Gravity. Even if you silence an opponent that relies on shadows, they can just flee away in attempt to waste the duration partially. With Gravity they cannot flee away, nor can they get close enough to you in order to start pressuring you into defensive action. This is also a wonderful time to implement Saboteur, as it enhances Gravity to the point of near-immobility. And if they get shadows up again, oh look Diaga is back up and now all shadow timers are down, allowing for enfeebling without needing to immediately silence. Addle+Slow combination sends recast timers straight to hell. Or, you can even Diaga > Break (since the DoT damage from Diaga does not cancel Break) and have enough time to land every enfeeble you wish.



DoT kiting is also not a very reliable option for PvP. Even if you can successfully keep a target away from you for a while, resistance to Gravity/Bind would skyrocket too quickly to be able to maintain distance for fifteen minutes. There is really no "eventually," the longer the fights last, the weaker an enfeebler will become. To be honest someone could even allow a Red Mage to kite him at the beginning, just to build resistance to major enfeebles and be able to attack without being impeded.



What is this, I don't even.

You don't have a clue on RDM for PvP. Have you ~ever~ fought a MNK or BLU before?

The gradual resistance is very slow. You'll get more then enough spells off to kill the target before resistance every becomes an issue. The whole point of those spells is to reduce the options available to the player and force them to spend their time on items and not combating you. You deliberately avoided addressing the real reason you use sleep, the stun effect. If the other player hasn't used a poison pot, that's just a bonus. You kill them with drain / aspir and DoT's over time, typically within 5 min but someone with a ton of items can last 10 min.

Poison II is 10hp/tick for 120 seconds, 40 ticks for 400 damage.

Sab doubles both the duration and DoT effect of Poison II. You get 20hp/tick at 240 seconds, 80 ticks for 1600 damage. Combined with drain spam it means your target eventually dies. This is for a one vs one contest where your just running them around. Which is ridiculously easy to do. In a team vs team fight, you would Sab Paralyze II onto the MNK, DNC, SAM or whomever on the other team relies on JA's the most.

[Urteil]

You don't have a clue on RDM for PvP. Have you ~ever~ fought a MNK or BLU before?

The gradual resistance is very slow. You'll get more then enough spells off to kill the target before resistance every becomes an issue. The whole point of those spells is to reduce the options available to the player and force them to spend their time on items and not combating you. You deliberately avoided addressing the real reason you use sleep, the stun effect. If the other player hasn't used a poison pot, that's just a bonus. You kill them with drain / aspir and DoT's over time, typically within 5 min but someone with a ton of items can last 10 min.

Poison II is 10hp/tick for 120 seconds, 40 ticks for 400 damage.

Sab doubles both the duration and DoT effect of Poison II. You get 20hp/tick at 240 seconds, 80 ticks for 1600 damage. Combined with drain spam it means your target eventually dies. This is for a one vs one contest where your just running them around. Which is ridiculously easy to do. In a team vs team fight, you would Sab Paralyze II onto the MNK, DNC, SAM or whomever on the other team relies on JA's the most.

/sch Sublimation wakes you like poison.
Its called resist gravity, erase and poisona.

You are terrible at PvP because you seem to not understand the power of resistance gear.
While you're draining/aspiring the other person does it too, the fact that you tote poison over silence is blows my mind, can you even tie your own shoes?

You don't have enough pride to not turn down a 61 100 byne bill offer to put your money where your mouth is? Make a mule, I"ll show it to you in a trade.


Is the person fighting the RDM standing still? You're an idiot, transfer over here so I can smack you around, this grows tiresome, I doubt anything bigger than the prospects I've just offered you has come your way.

O great PvP RDM master of the ages.

[CapriciousOne]

You don't have a clue on RDM for PvP. Have you ~ever~ fought a MNK or BLU before?

The gradual resistance is very slow. You'll get more then enough spells off to kill the target before resistance every becomes an issue. The whole point of those spells is to reduce the options available to the player and force them to spend their time on items and not combating you. You deliberately avoided addressing the real reason you use sleep, the stun effect. If the other player hasn't used a poison pot, that's just a bonus. You kill them with drain / aspir and DoT's over time, typically within 5 min but someone with a ton of items can last 10 min.

Poison II is 10hp/tick for 120 seconds, 40 ticks for 400 damage.

Sab doubles both the duration and DoT effect of Poison II. You get 20hp/tick at 240 seconds, 80 ticks for 1600 damage. Combined with drain spam it means your target eventually dies. This is for a one vs one contest where your just running them around. Which is ridiculously easy to do. In a team vs team fight, you would Sab Paralyze II onto the MNK, DNC, SAM or whomever on the other team relies on JA's the most.

One you seem to forget there are ranged weapons capable of stunning, paralyzing, and sleeping you to keep you from running around as well as drain hp/mp while you do as well.

Second, while Saboteur paralyze I/II is potent, if timed right by a competent dancer it can still be removed rather easily and quickly. In addition with /DNC almost any job can weight you down with Desperate Flourish if your running around is becoming annoying not to mention the ability to self skill chain for max damage very easily if they are equiped with a "TP Bonus+100" and ws at 100tp not to mention have the Jinx Discus with a curse effect to reduce your max HP for a bit if it procs.

If I'm correct rdm doesnt exactly have a direct way to get rid of that without subbing /whm or using items and even then are they even able to access that spell as /whm anyway? Dont get me wrong RDM is my mainstay and has many options but the worse thing you can do is overestimate your ability and underestimate your opponents.