Are Summoners getting jipped ?

[Economizer]

If the recast is short enough, then we can be invincible, other than a few very hard hitting NMs, we'll be able to basically solo everything else. I honestly think giving Garuda self-healing was probably something that Tanaka always regretted and would have pulled it from us if he can.

I'm saying that we really dont need a JA or being able to 'Cure' our pet at all since we can just resummon.

Resummoning a pet is cheaper in terms of MP then casting cures, and cures are balanced with enmity (and there could be additional enmity for healing an avatar if it was neccisary).

[Dreamin]

Oh I understood your intent. However, re-summoning is not always an option and is really at this point a overused excuse. Bst can re-summon a jug pet if timer is up and pup can re-summon their auto with timers too (they get two in fact even if one calls it out in a weakened state). Going on this thread of thought, that smn being able to instantly re-summon is the key reason we shouldn't be able to cure our pets: then when a bst jug/charm dies or a auto dies then their recast cool-down should start at that very moment before they can re-summon them. This would preserve smn's instant recast.

Se wants us to "stand back and watch the show" then giving us the ability to keep our avatars alive would be the start of it I imagine.

Edit: oh and to add Dawn mulsum is not smn exclusive. The a fore mentioned jobs can also use the mulsum to cure their pet as well: bst, pup, and even drg.

k, then I'm lost as to what the intend is. Being able to cure our avatar doesnt' really get us anything and for the most part, resummoning will have a much lower cost associate with curing (in terms of MP). I failed to see under what 'useful' circumstances where resummoning isn't an option. Even in the case that you're up front melee'ing with your avatar, you should know when your avatar is going to die and can run out of range to resummon. Not enough distance, cast a spirit and then run out even more, etc. etc. If you are solo farming, then you should have 'room' to run the distance, if you're in any party situation then there's absolutely no reason that you should be on the TOP of the hate list after your avatar die (barring your melee'ing somehow put you at the top - different discussion on hate issue). I've solo'ed/duo'ed many of the Abyssea NMs, solo farm gold chests, etc. etc. Only time I ever got into trouble is when Chione 2hr when I ran in to BP.

[Dreamin]

Resummoning a pet is cheaper in terms of MP then casting cures, and cures are balanced with enmity (and there could be additional enmity for healing an avatar if it was neccisary).

Agreed 100%, the only thing you lose when resummoning is the TP build up of the avatar. Which is only useful for magical BP anyway.

[Dallas]

You also lose enmity. If the avatar is tanking, healing is good.

[Malamasala]

You also lose enmity. If the avatar is tanking, healing is good.

Can't press like enough times.

[Tannlore]

k, then I'm lost as to what the intend is. Being able to cure our avatar doesnt' really get us anything and for the most part, resummoning will have a much lower cost associate with curing (in terms of MP). I failed to see under what 'useful' circumstances where resummoning isn't an option. Even in the case that you're up front melee'ing with your avatar, you should know when your avatar is going to die and can run out of range to resummon. Not enough distance, cast a spirit and then run out even more, etc. etc. If you are solo farming, then you should have 'room' to run the distance, if you're in any party situation then there's absolutely no reason that you should be on the TOP of the hate list after your avatar die (barring your melee'ing somehow put you at the top - different discussion on hate issue). I've solo'ed/duo'ed many of the Abyssea NMs, solo farm gold chests, etc. etc. Only time I ever got into trouble is when Chione 2hr when I ran in to BP.

I think most people already said it: Avatar Hate.

But I can go into more things:

-Avatar Hate: already stated but a spirit sometimes will not take a mob off you if you have issued too many pacts or swung your staff a lot. Ever buff near a mob while doing kiting? Yeah.. takes a few hits to get it off you when you resummon too. And that's with avatar enmity+ gear. There's a reason BST get snarl.

- Keeping your avatar's TP.

- You don't always have the best spot to resummon (magic aggro mobs for instance. Resummon around them and see what happens)

- Swinging around an Emp staff has very much put me at the top of my pt hate list after my avatar dies quite a few times not to mention curing and doing other things.. yeah I do cure and such also. (makes me laugh so hard when this happens. LOLsmn tank!)


As for the cost of curing an avatar? So what? We have so much perp- gear and the ability to get mp back this shouldn't even be a problem.

I'll turn this around a bit now that I've given some reasons. Can you give me a reason where you WOULDN'T cure your avatar given the ability during combat? Where you would rather it die, hate transfer to you and you forced to run somewhere to resummon.

[Economizer]

I think most people already said it: Avatar Hate.

But I can go into more things:

I hope that people understand that my comment here,

Resummoning a pet is cheaper in terms of MP then casting cures, and cures are balanced with enmity (and there could be additional enmity for healing an avatar if it was neccisary).

was meant as a point that because you can resummon a pet for cheaper then curing it, it would be balanced to cure it, since you get enmity for curing a pet.

It would be really cool if all the cure potency gear that Summoner gets actually meant something, which would be easy to do if the Summoner (but only the Summoner) could heal their pet.

[Tannlore]

I think it would be cool to have to play around more with the enmity of your avatar for curing it. I'm all for us healing out pet. Other people though? Yeah no, I have to agree there.

[Dreamin]

I think most people already said it: Avatar Hate.

But I can go into more things:

-Avatar Hate: already stated but a spirit sometimes will not take a mob off you if you have issued too many pacts or swung your staff a lot. Ever buff near a mob while doing kiting? Yeah.. takes a few hits to get it off you when you resummon too. And that's with avatar enmity+ gear. There's a reason BST get snarl.

- Keeping your avatar's TP.

- You don't always have the best spot to resummon (magic aggro mobs for instance. Resummon around them and see what happens)

- Swinging around an Emp staff has very much put me at the top of my pt hate list after my avatar dies quite a few times not to mention curing and doing other things.. yeah I do cure and such also. (makes me laugh so hard when this happens. LOLsmn tank!)


As for the cost of curing an avatar? So what? We have so much perp- gear and the ability to get mp back this shouldn't even be a problem.

I'll turn this around a bit now that I've given some reasons. Can you give me a reason where you WOULDN'T cure your avatar given the ability during combat? Where you would rather it die, hate transfer to you and you forced to run somewhere to resummon.

- Hate - I agreed, you'll have hate. But combined this with your reply on being on the top of hate list because you're melee'ing when in party. My suggestion is to party with better DD/Tanks. Don't get me wrong, I dont have a problem with SMN melee'ing, especially given the nice MP return on the Emp weapon (gives you option to not /RDM or /SCH which are now the 2 most common subjob for most SMNs). If you're farming in low men group. Other than a few NMs, I cannot imagine anything worthwhile that would last long enough for hate to be any issue at all given that we're 99 now. [please dont go the route of exp/limit party because that's what I'm referring to as 'useful' events].

- Keeping TP - agreed you'll lose whatever amount of TP your avatar has.

- Resummoning spot - again, I fail to see any reason in any useful event where this is an issue. There's no aggro in VW nor WoE. If you're referring to old Content. I fail to see where you won't overpower any of these things now a day. Sea/Sky - sure there are magic aggro, but if you're somehow on the top of hate list (which means you're either solo'ing or your other DD/tanks really sux) then run further away to resummon. There are always gaps even in between magic aggro'ing mobs up in Sky where you can resummon.

- MP cost - no one going to agrue that MP are cheap and easy to come by now. But when compare with resummon vs healing cost, there's no way that healing cost will be lower then the resummon cost. It's about efficiency here.

Efficiency to me is why I say it's better to just resummon and let your avatar die. I failed to see any real useful situation where I would not have an aggro free area where I can resummon and be far enough from the NM given that I do not see where any useful situation where I would be on the top of the NM hate list other than the case where I'm just solo'ing the NM at all.

[Economizer]

- MP cost - no one going to agrue that MP are cheap and easy to come by now. But when compare with resummon vs healing cost, there's no way that healing cost will be lower then the resummon cost. It's about efficiency here.

That's what balances it though. It would be cheaper to not heal your avatar, and you would get even more enmity then normal just by healing it. But those are the risks for keeping it alive and avoiding the risk of resummoning.

You might not see the use, or might even be able to consistently resummon, but others would see benefit from this, and it would be interesting gameplay, even give a bit of a flavor reason why most Summoners sub a healer job these days, and be great synergy with the most common subjob of Summoners.