[dev1049] New weapon skills

[Afania]

if you dont believe a merited WS won't become a baseline for all jobs, then you clearly won't ever get it. Maybe you still thinking exping is as hard as getting an empy? News flash it is easier to exp. i am curious at this point how you can be so adamant about limiting players to an amount of jobs...and there was a WHOLE LOT more wrong with ffxiv then some sort of distinction between each player lol not sure if that was a serious point or not. How you think these new Ws which are easily accessed and don't require a whole set of long quests, etc, to get will not be a baseline on DDing is beyond me. And these are not easily changed as mission/quest rewards, this takes a WHOLE lot longer to change from 1 WS to another as you will be making a bunch of trips to MH just to expend your merit points.

..Honestly it is like you are refusing to understand the points everyone has given you, out of curiosity do you even have or care about more then one job of yours?

I said ONE of the complaint, of course I know there's UI problem, content problem, but I didn't say the entire problem in FFXIV is only just job system.

In fact the way they're starting to redo job system in FFXIV proves that it doesn't really work. And which MMORPG you've played that every player has no identification? Having an identification is one the most important aspect in an MMORPG, since it's role-playing.

If you don't like merit system, then suggest SE to give players some sort of identification then? Instead of seeing every player grind 20 jobs to 99, cap all gears on them, and when you ask what job are you? You're everything, you lost it's uniqueness. You keep saying I don't get your point, but my main point is this game needs some sorts of stuff to distinguish between players since you can job change and cap gears. And skill/knowledge can't distinguish player enough either because this game isn't as complicated as rocket science/music/art and doesn't allow each player to develope unique play style when everything is done by math for optimal result. This is the point I made from the start, if you think new WS should be giving to everyone every job, fine. Come up with something else that can distinguish players and give identification then. But if not, then merit limit is the best way to go.

And to ans your Q, I have 7 jobs 75+, but yes I only care about 1, and I only lv one of them to 95 rest all stay lower than 95because I don't want to play them atm. Is that some sort of a crime? I don't enjoy playing other jobs, I lv them to 75, but I don't like it, is that such a big problem that you're not allowed to only enjoy playing one job? Personally I can use 4 merit WS, but I can only get 3, and I'm forced to give up one, do you see me QQ? Do I want all 4 WS? Yes, because playing job to fullest potential etc, but I'm happy with 3, because it's making choices, and making choices is what's fun, I sacrifice one aspect and gain another etc. I'd rather make choices, make one aspect better and one aspect worse, than capping everything I have.

[Afania]

I am on the side of obtaining these Weapon Skill naturally, I'm a collector and I love to collect shiny things. I was planning on leveling NIN and whichever other jobs to get the new abilities, but now I'm not encouraged to do so. I made a post a few pages back about leveling into the Weapon Skills like we normally do and have merits to augment them with different additional effects such as Criticals hits, or MP recovery, or some specific buff or debuff, or even a specific Aftermath effect. The potency/activation rate/duration of the augments would be increased with merits.

Actually that's a pretty good idea, but players want to cap everything gonna QQ again "WHY MY NEW WS FORCED TO BE GIMP THAT'S NOT FAIR I WANT TO PIMP EVERY JOB" again.

[brayen]

That is a crime in terms of the argument, you clearly don't care to have more then one job. That is why you will never understand the concept we are trying to lay out as you are in the position of not being affected by it unless others can get them all it would seem(this seems to be your point in either case). Not sure what you want from identification? Between job you are playing, race, and who you are (how you play) there is more then enough identification to go around. Add in major accomplishments from finishing a relic or something of that sort and you have tons of identification to go around.

Actually that's a pretty good idea, but players want to cap everything gonna QQ again "WHY MY NEW WS FORCED TO BE GIMP THAT'S NOT FAIR I WANT TO PIMP EVERY JOB" again.

and i am done talking to you after this, you clearly have it out against anyone even bothering to lvl another job so you clearly lack any insight to even discuss anything with. I hope you enjoy your one job, variety is clearly not your strong suit.

[Afania]

That is a crime in terms of the argument, you clearly don't care to have more then one job. That is why you will never understand the concept we are trying to lay out as you are in the position of not being affected by it unless others can get them all it would seem(this seems to be your point in either case). Not sure what you want from identification? Between job you are playing, race, and who you are (how you play) there is more then enough identification to go around. Add in major accomplishments from finishing a relic or something of that sort and you have tons of identification to go around.

Yes but I also pointed out that I can use more than 3 and won't QQ if I can't get them all even if I want them all. I am still affected by it, and unable to reach fullest potential because of it, but I think getting identification is more important atm, so I'm fine. I don't see how we're not on same start baseline about this arguement.

You said to distinguish player by jobs playing, but you can job change already, I don't see how job can distinguish players unless everyone's job develope differently(and they don't). How you play is already set in stones most of the time. The only way to make the difference is really just gears that takes very long time to obtain since most ppl wont have enough resources to get all 20. And That's really just Mythic/relic.

So you pretty much have to grind a relic/mythic to stand out? That doesn't sound very friendly to most players. Merit/storyline reward is really the only way that's average player friendly.

and i am done talking to you after this, you clearly have it out against anyone even bothering to lvl another job so you clearly lack any insight to even discuss anything with. I hope you enjoy your one job, variety is clearly not your strong suit.

I'm not "against" other ppl with many jobs, I just don't think everyone should cap everything is that so hard to understand?

If you like 20 jobs, fine. If you want to pimp 20 jobs, fine. It's your monthly fee and you play however you want that's not my business. Have variety is good, but forcing other ppl to play jobs they don't like is not.

[brayen]

Yes but I also pointed out that I can use more than 3 and won't QQ if I can't get them all even if I want them all. I am still affected by it, and unable to reach fullest potential because of it, but I think getting identification is more important atm, so I'm fine. I don't see how we're not on same start baseline about this arguement.

You said to distinguish player by jobs playing, but you can job change already, I don't see how job can distinguish players unless everyone's job develope differently(and they don't). How you play is already set in stones most of the time. The only way to make the difference is really just gears that takes very long time to obtain since most ppl wont have enough resources to get all 20. And That's really just Mythic/relic.

So you pretty much have to grind a relic/mythic to stand out? That doesn't sound very friendly to most players. Merit/storyline reward is really the only way that's average player friendly.

and again you missed the point.

You said you have only 1 job at 95, so i am unsure what else i need to even say about your bias opinions on the subject after everything you have already said. I am not talking about 2 jobs at 95 i am talking about jobs you have lvled and well geared and you have taken time to adjust.

You do distinguish by jobs, to start with not every two people play the same or best at x job, if you are unable to understand this then i am unsure what to tell you. I cant heal the best which is why i have hardly done it, doesn't stop me from trying to attain gear for said job (cure magian staff for example) and get better at it. completing empy and such is just another thing i mentioned to distinguish, but you clearly saw fit to dismiss any of my other points on this godly "identification" you cling to.

I'm not "against" other ppl with many jobs, I just don't think everyone should cap everything is that so hard to understand?

If you like 20 jobs, fine. If you want to pimp 20 jobs, fine. It's your monthly fee and you play however you want that's not my business. Have variety is good, but forcing other ppl to play jobs they don't like is not.

How in the world are you forcing others to play jobs they dont like? you have blown me away i think i might of clicked the wrong forum language x.x

[Afania]

and again you missed the point.

You said you have only 1 job at 95, so i am unsure what else i need to even say about your bias opinions on the subject after everything you have already said. I am not talking about 2 jobs at 95 i am talking about jobs you have lvled and well geared and you have taken time to adjust.

You do distinguish by jobs, to start with not every two people play the same or best at x job, if you are unable to understand this then i am unsure what to tell you. I cant heal the best which is why i have hardly done it, doesn't stop me from trying to attain gear for said job (cure magian staff for example) and get better at it. completing empy and such is just another thing i mentioned to distinguish, but you clearly saw fit to dismiss any of my other points on this godly "identification" you cling to.
How in the world are you forcing others to play jobs they dont like? you have blown me away i think i might of clicked the wrong forum language x.x

I can say you're biased too because merit limit benefits ppl with 1~3 jobs more, but not ppl with 10~20 jobs. So ppl with 10~20 jobs thinks it's unfair, but that's baised. You're only QQ because you're not the one getting the benefit more.

On the other hand fast capping gear in Abyssea era benefits ppl with 10~20 jobs more and doesn't benefit ppl focus on 1~3 jobs, since ppl with 10~20 jobs already gain the benefit of capping gear on 20 jobs what's wrong with balancing it?

If player A with only WHM leveled, and player B has 20 job leveled but focus on DRG and SAM, player A's WHM should be better than player B's WHM. I have no problem if player B choose to focus on WHM and his WHM ended up as good as player A. But if player B choose to focus on DRG and SAM, and his WHM is still as good as player A, then there's a problem in this game.

I have NO PROBLEM with ppl lving 20 jobs, but ppl who has 20 jobs can only reach top on a few, have every job reach top just doesn't make sense in any way.

You're the one missing the point. The job you focus on should be your best, doesn't matter how many other job you leveled. But if you don't focus on that job and it's still as good as player focusing on that job(again, since you can cap gear in months you don't really need to focus on a job to reach on the top) then it's bad for a MMORPG.

[brayen]

if someone is focusing on x job over another given equal time then it shouldn't matter if player b had extra time to perfect another job as well. Your point is entirely skipping time given which is an important factor here. If one person only wants or has time to lvl one job they should NOT be limiting everyone else potential. That is so retarded i can't even express words. It is like saying "kid b cant play video games so everyone else has to play what he wants"

the fact that someone is being forced to ONLY have a few top jobs renders the rest utterly worthless therefore you are forcing people tp abandon other jobs, if you can't grasp that then you clearly just trying to get everyone else to play like you..which is 1-3 jobs at 95 the rest of your efforts(time given) be dam.

[Afania]

if someone is focusing on x job over another given equal time then it shouldn't matter if player b had extra time to perfect another job as well. Your point is entirely skipping time given which is an important factor here. If one person only wants or has time to lvl one job they should NOT be limiting everyone else potential. That is so retarded i can't even express words. It is like saying "kid b cant play video games so everyone else has to play what he wants"

the fact that someone is being forced to ONLY have a few top jobs renders the rest utterly worthless therefore you are forcing people tp abandon other jobs, if you can't grasp that then you clearly just trying to get everyone else to play like you..which is 1-3 jobs at 95 the rest of your efforts(time given) be dam.

Except time isn't important factor nowadays when you can finish +2/empy in weeks. It would work if it's old FFXI since you only have time to grind gears for 1~3 jobs, but now you can grind gears for 20 jobs and become the best for everything in same time frame. If you want to make one of your job stand out by focusing on one, your only chance is pretty much to go get a relic/mythic. Again, I have no problem if ppl has extra time to pimp all 20 jobs too, but pimping one job nowadays doesn't require as much time as it used to be, that everyone can pretty much cap it with very little effort.

Your other jobs won't be useless even if it's not the best, just because certain jobs may be needed. I invited THF to pt for TH many times even though he has better geared SAM and NIN. The only job that will get affected is really just DD job, which already has hiearchy before merit WS release.


I feel I'm talking in circles. I already made all my points very clear for pages, that only ppl who spend most effort on that job is the best, if you want to spend effort on other job you can't be best on this job. And it has nothing to do with me, my job, how many job I have and how good/bad my jobs are, it's just how this game should work, and how rl works too.

But you just won't get it, and insist that you want to cap 20 jobs. There are really no point to talk about it anymore. I offered different ideas to make your jobs to stand out if that person want to focus on that, but you won't accept. So I think we should just stop and let SE decide what to do next.

[Greatguardian]

It doesn't really matter anyways.

The number of people who actually hit the theoretical maximum on more than 3 jobs that actually use weapons is extremely slim as is.

Even if we had the option of maxing all 14 WS, you wouldn't have many people maxing every job. Sure, it's not hard to play any of them, but simply being well geared is a far cry from perfection. Even then, how well geared is the average player? Answer: Not.

Sure, literally anyone can finish Emps in anywhere from a few days to a couple weeks. Doesn't mean they do.

[Amador]

It doesn't really matter anyways.

The number of people who actually hit the theoretical maximum on more than 3 jobs that actually use weapons is extremely slim as is.

Even if we had the option of maxing all 14 WS, you wouldn't have many people maxing every job. Sure, it's not hard to play any of them, but simply being well geared is a far cry from perfection. Even then, how well geared is the average player? Answer: Not.

Sure, literally anyone can finish Emps in anywhere from a few days to a couple weeks. Doesn't mean they do.

That doesn't imply there should be a limitation to it. Yes people do, those that care to do so do.

There's a wide difference in players, from those who are average joe's to the elitest core who actually excel and perform on whatever job they get on because they've taken the time to invest into being useful to that degree.

This is a huge difference compared to the type of player who simply has 2 jobs to offer, that aren't required for x event due to whatever reason and or other people who have the same jobs that do the jobs better. It's about being able to utilize what you have available to form solid tactics, not to just rofl through an event only to stand up and say: What do I lot?