[dev1049] New weapon skills

[Greatguardian]

I'm glad you understand alpha and everything, but you completely wooshed my point just so you could play math.

I was comparing a 100% INT mod to a 100% STR mod.

Let's throw 100 of each stat at each mod and see what we get:
+100 INT, 100% mod
100 * 1.0 * 0.91 (a much more recent alpha value mind you, .85 was back at 80 cap)
91 base damage from WSC

Now 100 STR on a 100% STR mod
91 base damage from WSC, ~25 base damage from fSTR if uncapped (which definitely happens in Voidwatch) and 75 attack (Also highly valuable in such events as Voidwatch)

So you're looking at a 10% Ratio increase on top of 27% more 'bang' from raw Stat.

A 100% STR mod is far more 'broken' than a 100% INT mod would ever be no matter how strong the base WS is. Resolution is 100% STR mod and already 25% stronger than Entropy (5.0 fTP vs 4.0, gorgets and ele belts are far past worthwhile at this point mind you so don't even mention them).

Having a 100% INT mod does not make Entropy any less crappy, especially when compared to Resolution.

I'd like to see where your data supporting a 0.91 Alpha is coming from, considering all of the testing that's been going on on the test server from both Pchan and BG have either confirmed that Alpha is 0.85 or are using 0.85 as the level 99 Alpha. Edit: In fact, I'm fairly certain Alpha was very specifically confirmed to be 0.85 at 99 using Sidewinder because we've been having so many problems figuring out what was going on with these new WS.

Obviously a 100% STR WS would be stronger than a 100% INT WS, my point was simply that being a 100% INT WS doesn't inherently make it "Bad". Is the great sword WS better? Quite possibly, but then Greatswords also suffer from a great deal of X-hit issues and a lower base damage in general. A 15%~ish overall difference in WS damage isn't gamebreakingly horrid when you're looking at a 7-hit GS and a 6-hit Scythe.

[Leonlionheart]

Entropy is the best DRK ws simply because of Liberator.

99 Mythic pretty much rapes the scene.

Obviously, for the 99.999999% that don't have one, Torcleaver on low Defense mobs or High Attack situations and Resolution on high defense mobs.

[SpankWustler]

Following your logic, every single merit weaponskill should have a 100% STR modifier because anything else is just intolerable.

Of course a 100% STR modifier is better than a 100% INT modifier. I don't think anyone would suggest otherwise. I'm just saying a 100% INT modifier isn't as awful a thing as it's being made out to be. The sky isn't falling.

[Raelia]

Alpha has been rising since it was 0.82 at level 75. It's been above 0.90 for some time now. You are way out of date but this portion of the argument is irrelevant. It's still incomprehensible for alpha to have gone back down to almost the level it was at 75, but I digress. Do your own damn research.

The Greatsword WS is curbstompingly better with any decent amount of attack. If you have anything to say otherwise then feel free to make yourself look like a total clown. It's much further on the order of fully 50% stronger just for the STR mod reasons I detailed above and because the base damage difference between Scythe and GS has actually closed since level 75. X-hit issues are on a per-weapon basis (I'm looking at you Caladbolg) but are not insurmountable.

I also hope you're joking about only 6-hitting Scythe, especially with the Askar upgrades coming down the pipe.

100% INT is pretty awful, but isn't what's wrong with Entropy. It's the laughable 'four hits' cloning of a level 60 WS that is the problem. Make Entropy eight hits and it will at least compete even with an INT mod (if it were STR modded, that would indeed be too much!)

This is an opportunity for Scythe to not fall completely off the wagon. As it stands GS will take over both singlehit and multihit WS supremacy with better TP phase damage.

[Greatguardian]

http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/106...=1#post4915450

http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/106...=1#post4915481

http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/106...=1#post4915503

http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/106...=1#post4915521

http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/106...=1#post4915520

Put your money where your mouth is or shove off.

[Raelia]

Don't really give a rat's ass, you're running a sideline argument and ignoring the topic at hand.

[Greatguardian]

Which is what? You feel entitled to a flat 4.0 fTP increase on your WS? Even Asuran Fists, MNK's strongest non-Empyrean WS, only gets 20% total WSC while being 8-hit - and this is with a significantly weaker base damage.

Yeah, an INT mod is silly, but the alternative you're suggesting is breaking the god damn game. But who cares, right? In the end, it's just DRKs emo'ing about DRK. This entire conversation is subjective nonsense because determining where to draw the line of "Good enough" here is subjective. I could understand if Entropy was being shat on by Guillotine, but it's not. It's very clearly a gimmicky WS, where GS excels in pure damage. Whether it comes out comparable overall is going to depend vastly on the kind of gear/weapon options we're given at 99.

I also don't take kindly to people trying to "correct" me with bad, easily disproved numbers. If you want to get an attitude, make sure your bloody facts check out first.

[Raelia]

Because Torcleaver swinging a 4.75-6.5 fTP with auto-capped accuracy isn't broken in the same way? "Because it only has a 60% VIT mod"? DRK can stack a smidge over +110 VIT on gear but only about +85 INT (and most of that is the same Twilight pieces), and Torcleaver only has to consider Attack before stacking VIT.

An eight hit Entropy would require keeping accuracy capped first, then attack, then that INT mod might come into play. it's the classic Guillotine formula and has always separated the good DRKs from scrubs and would be good to return to. Your point about Asuran Fists's low modifier isn't relevant because said mods should come last from any standpoint.

'Entitled' to a 4.0 ftp increase? I just want the WS to be relevant. DRK should be a DD class to start, hybrid and utility second. After accuracy considerations, eight hits is not overpowered in comparison to Torcleaver.

Would you rather it be made a crit WS?

[Greatguardian]

Accuracy considerations, even at cap, are one of the biggest reasons I'm "wut"ing at this 8-hit request. Why not just add 2-3 fTP to the first hit? That would do a hell of a lot more for the WS than adding extra hits. 8-hit WS's only hit all 8 hits 66.3% of the time, even with capped accuracy. That's a woefully unreliable way to add damage if that's all your after.

[Raelia]

One (two?) word: Souleater.

Combine with Stalwart Soul and DRK has a nice chunk of zerg/spike output back without resorting to giving it a crit WS.

Should still land 6 hits most of the time. Making the WS eight hits means double and triple attack are not necessary and/or abusable if you took it into Abyssea.

It would be a powerful but fairly regulated (mostly by accuracy) weaponskill and fall within classical DRK design schemes without jumping the crit shark. Scythe needs a decent WS that badly and Torcleaver is the least comparison I can make; start throwing around WAR fTPs with critical attack bonus and Blood Rage thrown on top and eight hit Entropy would probably seem downright tame.