[dev1049] New weapon skills

[FrankReynolds]

Except if you have WAR THF NIN MNK all of them won't suck by not having the new WS, your WAR NIN MNK can spam empy WS(which as far as test result goes they're still the best), get ODD from empy WS and still outparse WAR NIN MNK using merit WS, and only your THF needs merit WS, in the end you only merit 1 and still has good performance on all of them.

Still I don't know what's this "If I don't have all merit WS I'm gonna suck" mentality comes from.

First of all, not everyone has a relic/w/e for every job. The more jobs you have leveled, the more silly what you just described sounds. These WS will be expected of any job that you don't have a relic or w/e for by any group leader. More importantly though, I just want things to use my merits on, and options to use on my different jobs. The above was a hypothetical by the way, I have, and I suspect most other people do as well have several different jobs leveled / geared besides the ones listed. I just don't see why you would want to limit someone who has a bunch of different jobs leveled by going "Well, if you don't have an Empyrian for that job, then come on something that you have the merit WS for.".

[Natasha]

First of all, not everyone has a relic/w/e for every job. The more jobs you have leveled, the more silly what you just described sounds. These WS will be expected of any job that you don't have a relic or w/e for by any group leader. More importantly though, I just want things to use my merits on, and options to use on my different jobs. The above was a hypothetical by the way, I have, and I suspect most other people do as well have several different jobs leveled / geared besides the ones listed. I just don't see why you would want to limit someone who has a bunch of different jobs leveled by going "Well, if you don't have an Empyrian for that job, then come on something that you have the merit WS for.".

But what you were just saying, is that essentially, if you don't have the best then you're gimp (assuming you think these weapon skills are strong) so if thats your mentality then you're gimp for not having an empy anyway.... not being the best at everything doesnt make you gimp -.-

abyssea mentality...

[FrankReynolds]

But what you were just saying, is that essentially, if you don't have the best then you're gimp (assuming you think these weapon skills are strong) so if thats your mentality then you're gimp for not having an empy anyway.... not being the best at everything doesnt make you gimp -.-

abyssea mentality...

Yes, my monk currently has half built Vara. It is Gimp in my opinion. Having this merit weapon skill (which seems to perform pretty close to VS so far) would be a huge step toward un-gimping it. Glad we agree.

For people who don't get to build Best in class weapons, having access to the merit WS will be a must in many situations, if they expect to be competitive with other DD.

[Afania]

First of all, not everyone has a relic/w/e for every job. The more jobs you have leveled, the more silly what you just described sounds. These WS will be expected of any job that you don't have a relic or w/e for by any group leader. More importantly though, I just want things to use my merits on, and options to use on my different jobs. The above was a hypothetical by the way, I have, and I suspect most other people do as well have several different jobs leveled / geared besides the ones listed. I just don't see why you would want to limit someone who has a bunch of different jobs leveled by going "Well, if you don't have an Empyrian for that job, then come on something that you have the merit WS for.".

I don't understand.

A while ago you're saying not having merit WS=gimp, and not playing the job to it's fullest potential. I just offered solution to ungimp it.

Yes you can argue that empyrean WS takes longer to get and not everyone have it etc, but most of the ppl in this game also only has 1~2 empyrean weapon since many ppl doesn't have a lot of play time to get 20 empyrean weapons for 20 job too, and 1~2 empy WS is less than 3 merit WS. In that sense their none-empyrean job are not playing to fullest potential too, I never seen anyone complain on SE forum that empyrean WS should be available to everyone and only takes 1 day to unlock. For me empyrean weapon is also a limit to pretty much 99% of ppl since 99% of ppl won't have time to get them all. A lot of ppl have many DD job leveled/geared and no empy(nor time to do an empy), never seen them QQ. A lot of ppl have multiple job leveled/geared and only play their best job with empy, never seen them QQ that they can't play their none-empy DD too.

You said you're doing an empy, chances are by the time you finish it you won't use merit WS ever again. Merit WS is not there to replace the old WS just like how empy WS isn't there to replace old WS, you should treat merit WS like a bonus, not like a must have.

If you wanna treat it like a must have, I can say empy weapons are must have too, and most ppl doesn't have more than 3. So why QQ about having only 3 merit WS?

[FrankReynolds]

I don't understand.

A while ago you're saying not having merit WS=gimp, and not playing the job to it's fullest potential. I just offered solution to ungimp it.

Yes you can argue that empyrean WS takes longer to get and not everyone have it etc, but most of the ppl in this game also only has 1~2 empyrean weapon since many ppl doesn't have a lot of play time to get 20 empyrean weapons for 20 job too, and 1~2 empy WS is less than 3 merit WS. In that sense their none-empyrean job are not playing to fullest potential too, I never seen anyone complain on SE forum that empyrean WS should be available to everyone and only takes 1 day to unlock. For me empyrean weapon is also a limit to pretty much 99% of ppl since 99% of ppl won't have time to get them all. A lot of ppl have many DD job leveled/geared and no empy(nor time to do an empy), never seen them QQ. A lot of ppl have multiple job leveled/geared and only play their best job with empy, never seen them QQ that they can't play their none-empy DD too.

You said you're doing an empy, chances are by the time you finish it you won't use merit WS ever again. Merit WS is not there to replace the old WS just like how empy WS isn't there to replace old WS, you should treat merit WS like a bonus, not like a must have.

If you wanna treat it like a must have, I can say empy weapons are must have too, and most ppl doesn't have more than 3. So why QQ about having only 3 merit WS?

Nope. you sorta missed the point, but I'm no master telecaster, so it may be my fault.

Most people don't have empy weapons.

Everyone will have 3 of these new WS which are for the most part close to empy WS.

No one will want you coming on a job that doesn't have 1 of the 2.



Some people have a bunch of Jobs that they have dumped millions of merits / gear /time into. They shouldn't suddenly be considered gimp because they can't put 5 merits into them.

Again, don't get this confused. I have or will have Weapons / WS for all the jobs I'm really into fairly quickly. But if I had different priorities (think melee mage, ranged jobs, Beast Master, Dark, etc.) I would be extremely pissed right now given my setup. As it is, I'm just concerned because I may get into one of those jobs next (corsair is looking really fun ATM).

A whole bunch of other crap 2 posts down..

OK, I have all 20 jobs to 95. I have gone out and earned perfect gear for every one of them. I am now just starting on my quest to build all of the Relics, all of the mythics, and all of the empys. In the mean time, I have put equal effort into all of my jobs. How is limiting me to only 3 cool WS not a problem? (encase you didn't notice I'm doing a hypothetical here. A lot of people won't level all 20, or need all the Relics etc, before they run into an issue with not being able to merit what they want.)

[Afania]

Nope. you sorta missed the point, but I'm no master telecaster, so it may be my fault.

Most people don't have empy weapons.

Everyone will have 3 of these new WS which are for the most part close to empy WS.

No one will want you coming on a job that doesn't have 1 of the 2.



Some people have a bunch of Jobs that they have dumped millions of merits / gear /time into. They shouldn't suddenly be considered gimp because they can't put 5 merits into them.

So you already realized being "gimp" or not is depending on other player's level. If everyone has AF3, you're using perle, then you're "gimp". If only 2% of player has AF3, and you're using perle, then you're just average.

So you have 3 merit WS, and every other player also have 3, idk what's so gimp about it. The amount of merit WS you have isn't lower than other ppl.

And no, merit WS won't make a very big difference about able to play a job or not. I often join /shout VW pt on BLU, and as long as there's a BLU spot open I can pretty much get in easily. I dont have empy, and everytime when I joined entire alliance has empy as long as it's DD or PLD. Compare with other player in alliance, I'm "gimp", since my gear lv is slightly on lower tier. But that doesn't stop me from playing BLU, because the alliance needs it.

If your WAR doesn't have enough merit to get merit WS, you will still get invited if the situation needs WAR and they can't find other ppl. And not having merit WS doesn't make it gimp either, since the amount of merit WS you have isn't lower than other ppl. The pt may try to find Ukko WAR first, and they may not be able to find one because not everyone have empy. Then they start to look for merit WS WAR, and they may still not be able to find one because no one merit that WS. In the end they will have to settle for the one without, then everyone with WAR leveled and no merit WS will have same chance to get in to the pt. If everyone all have merit WS on every job, chances are you still won't gain extra chance to play your WAR because other WAR has it too.

Merit WS should be like empy WS, that it offers you extra advantage when trying to get in to the pt. But if the situation really needs X job, there's no way you don't get to play it just because you don't have the WS. Of course, other ppl with that WS may get more chance than you to play that job, but it's also the same with empy. Other ppl with empy has more chance to play that job than you as well. You're only assuming that everyone can get merit WS therefore everyone else will have that WS, but that's not necessary true since not everyone will merit same WS as you do. Merit WS will NOT become a standard to judge gimp or not because not everyone has them all, period. If merit WS is a standard, then so does empy because a large amount of population has it(you can't deny that)

[FrankReynolds]

So you already realized being "gimp" or not is depending on other player's level. If everyone has AF3, you're using perle, then you're "gimp". If only 2% of player has AF3, and you're using perle, then you're just average.

So you have 3 merit WS, and every other player also have 3, idk what's so gimp about it. The amount of merit WS you have isn't lower than other ppl.

This is the part I have a problem with. I honestly didn't read the rest because I'm getting bored of it.

First part is correct. Not having the baseline gear makes you a gimp.

Second part is just..... Look... if everyone can only be good at three jobs, that is a problem.

[Afania]

This is the part I have a problem with. I honestly didn't read the rest because I'm getting bored of it.

First part is correct. Not having the baseline gear makes you a gimp.

Second part is just..... Look... if everyone can only be good at three jobs, that is a problem.

Since you didn't read the rest, I guess you missed the most important point in the post, that merit WS won't become the baseline of the job because not everyone will have it on that job.


And second part.......I already stress this over and over, but I guess you won't get it then. Allowing a player lose focus on one(or few) job in a MMORPG does more harm than good. I think That's one of the biggest complain in FFXIV, that there are very little to distinguish between each player.

[FrankReynolds]

Since you didn't read the rest, I guess you missed the most important point in the post, that merit WS won't become the baseline of the job because not everyone will have it on that job.


And second part.......I already stress this over and over, but I guess you won't get it then. Allowing a player lose focus on one(or few) job in a MMORPG does more harm than good. I think That's one of the biggest complain in FFXIV, that there are very little to distinguish between each player.

It is the baseline. You are not getting into any events on jobs with sub par damage. Everyone else will be on the jobs that they have merited ws for. That is the baseline that you will be compared to.

FFXIV sucks on so many different levels that its not even comparable. Forcing a player to only focus on three jobs is not going to make the game better. It's going to force people to sacrifice merits in jobs they like so that they can put them into the jobs that LS and Group leaders and / or the community in general wants them to. IE. I want to put merits into GA right now, but I had to remove them so that I could get Staff red proc. That is lame, although far less severe than say removing a skill entirely.