[dev1049] New weapon skills

[Economizer]

As for defending the interwebs from terrible misinformation, please refer to my signature if your not sure these stupid people exist. :P

That thread is near unreadable... do people understand the concept of cutting down quotes to only contain relevant parts and cutting them into pieces when responding to multiple parts?

[Economizer]

I think the other five percent of the time will refer to that neck piece and soon the new cape that increase crit rate and damage taken at the expense of having to increase your Tonberry hate.

Now that's a hard choice.

[brayen]

You are fairly slow if you can't see the problem with needing to undertake the task of empy/relic/mythic as a solution to rendering your job inferior. Fact is there is a base line on what is to be expected from x Job. Where as once you had things like rampage, you now have the new Axe WS which is showing up as being better, and so on for all the weapon classes. Saying "oh you can't maximize a job then go get an empy" is downright insulting as a response.

[Afania]

You are fairly slow if you can't see the problem with needing to undertake the task of empy/relic/mythic as a solution to rendering your job inferior. Fact is there is a base line on what is to be expected from x Job. Where as once you had things like rampage, you now have the new Axe WS which is showing up as being better, and so on for all the weapon classes. Saying "oh you can't maximize a job then go get an empy" is downright insulting as a response.

No it's the same thing. Once you had things like Sidewinder, and sidewinder was best bow WS. Then JR showed up, now JR is the best WS. Will your RNG be "inferior" without JR? When you only have enough play time to grind 3 empyrean weapon but have 20 job leveled, will you sacrifice other job's performance to pimp RNG first by grinding JR instead of other weapons?

When you have 20 job leveled, some of the bound suffer if you wanna focus on something. Although FFXI can job change, the core game concept is never about capping 20 jobs. You can lv 20 jobs sure, but some of them will be "inferior". Why? Merit, storyline mission reward choices, limited play time to spend on gears. The game concept allows you to play 20 jobs, but you specilize in one instead of master everything.

You can only pick 1 out of 3 rings from ToAU(although most of them sucked nowadays, but they weren't THAT bad before), melee ring, mage ring, or ranged attack ring. If you pick one you gonna miss another one. That's specilization. You can only pick a few in merit category. If you pick enmity- for your BLM, your PLD is gonna suck. You can only pick 2 augment for add-on reward. If you pick waltz recast time- for your DNC, your BST gonna suck without pet PDT-. The choices was there, as always. SE never allow player to master all 20 jobs at once ever since release, why suddenly act as if it's a big deal.

EDIT: Yes and it's boring if every player with both DNC and BSTs leveled are allowed to obtain 2 add-on armor and do augment for both of their jobs.

[Mirage]

You are fairly slow if you can't see the problem with needing to undertake the task of empy/relic/mythic as a solution to rendering your job inferior. Fact is there is a base line on what is to be expected from x Job. Where as once you had things like rampage, you now have the new Axe WS which is showing up as being better, and so on for all the weapon classes. Saying "oh you can't maximize a job then go get an empy" is downright insulting as a response.

Implying 90% the playerbase doesn't already see you as inferior if you don't have an empyrean WS.

[brayen]

You completely and entirely missed my point. Sidewinder is attainable by anyone using archery as a skill(well rng anyways). JR is not(requires huge time sink of 48? or so NMs + 175? items just for lv 90). If that logic is understandable, then you should be able to grasp that the baseline was always sidewinder, if you have JR then you are in a better boat...but not due to choices, but due to time restraint. I hate to burst you bubble but empy is not the norm for everyone on every job. The fact they are limiting how well you can perform at a base level, further pushes any job lacking said skills down even further, meaning even further ostracizing jobs that do not have the empy/merit ws and such.

EDIT: Yes and it's boring if every player with both DNC and BSTs leveled are allowed to obtain 2 add-on armor and do augment for both of their jobs.

lol so then your whole game revolves around what others do/wear? as someone else having something like that is boring for u >.> in either case those armor are readily interchangeable at will and for all intents and purposes are not unlocking anything new for said jobs(small edit: this goes for 100% of armor btw).

[FrankReynolds]

You completely and entirely missed my point. Sidewinder is attainable by anyone using archery as a skill(well rng anyways). JR is not(requires huge time sink of 48? or so NMs + 175? items just for lv 90). If that logic is understandable, then you should be able to grasp that the baseline was always sidewinder, if you have JR then you are in a better boat...but not due to choices, but due to time restraint. I hate to burst you bubble but empy is not the norm for everyone on every job. The fact they are limiting how well you can perform at a base level, further pushes any job lacking said skills down even further, meaning even further ostracizing jobs that do not have the empy/merit ws and such.

I should just delete my posts and quote yours. I think the egg nog is talking too much in mine. :P

[Amador]

I like to play multiple jobs, it keeps things fresh. It would be nice if there wasn't a 3 WS Cap, due to the reason that most people this late in the game play a lot more than just 3 jobs.

I say 3, because in getting all 15 weapon skills, you're quite frankly just wasting merits. The weapon skills are terrible at level 1. So, realistically, it's 5/5 or nothing.

That aside, it's not as if they're cheap. 100 merits, even being able to hold 30 at a time is a bit of a chore. Even in an Abyssea burn party it still means having to go dump merits, go back and rebuild your lights and experience point level then rinsing and repeating 4 times just for 1 Weapon Skill at 5/5. Now if you do that same process times 15, it's quite a chore.

Now as far as the whole Relic/Mythic/Empyrean deal, those weapons offer a lot more than just a simple damage boost. So saying that these merit-able weapon skills define a job, and or limit a job to being gimp or not for not having one or the other is silly. If anything that's place for the weapons. You can use these weapons skills with a level 1 weapon, that doesn't change regardless. Relic/Mythic/Empyreans are meant to lead in damage through the utility in which they offer. As for the weapon skills, they're meant to be pretty strong it's expected they are level 99 weapon skills or rather level 96 weapon skills. Isn't that peculiar?

As a career Dragoon I'm inclined to Max Stardiver. As a Paladin and Blue Mage enthusiast, I am inclined to level Sword. The 3rd is undecided as I have to pick and choose between what I want. So, I think they should remove that silly little limit cap, and allow those who are willing to grind through that lovely 1,500,000 Experience.

[SpankWustler]

Specific jobs are very rarely needed outside of White Mage and sometimes Paladin, unless it's related to procs. In fact, every single example you gave seemed to be related to procs.

Actually, let's take that further. I wonder how many people will feel the same way about being limited to 15 points across the board if these new weaponskills become part of various and sundry proc systems looming in the future. It's been said such systems won't be in all new content, and you know what that means...

They cost too many merits to switch around like spells or abilities, and I doubt very many people would merit some of them for any reason other than making a !! pop up over a monster's head. I think that kind of situation would suck rather vehemently.

At the very least, I think natively learning the horrid 20% modifer version or something similar would be really nice.

Other than that, all I got from those four paragraphs is that you're a masochist who enjoys finding Voidwatch procs on Blue Mage.

[Malamasala]

Specific jobs are very rarely needed outside of White Mage and sometimes Paladin, unless it's related to procs. In fact, every single example you gave seemed to be related to procs.

That is the theory. It is based on people not caring how long it takes to fight, or if they might lose, or if the monster has good drops. As soon as we all play according to this, jobs won't matter. Until then, the only jobs that count are the best ones, which are about 4-6 jobs total.