New Monk Weapon skills

[Motenten]

While I realize it's a lot to ask, I'm hoping you can do a controlled test on fTP. Need about 40 samples each, with and without a gorget (and elemental belt, if you happen to have one to match), using the usual SA+WS on starter zone mobs. Stack as much dex as possible on those tests, since higher base damage values make it easier to differentiate the results. Provide all sample values, not just high/low. Two sets of comparative results (one from each of you) would help make validation easier.

Latest from Gobli apparently have fTP at 1.0625 or something like that, but they may be assuming the 100% stat mod at 5/5.

[MarkovChain]

Updating my data
[D=+0,DEX=96,skill=440]
[463,450,465,456,450,461,455,455,457,460]
[D=+25,DEX=96,skill=440]
[489, 482, 525, 492, 549, 518, 535, 490, 542, 552, 523, 546, 549, 554, 537, 545, 491, 549, 492]
[D=+39,DEX=96,skill=454]
[605,595,556,599,539,590,603,606,604,586,614,595,605,586,601,594,550,605,600,593,559]

Still not enough to accurately narrow the mods but using my loop above If you assume that I am 5 away from the max in each case it only leaves 76 for mods, 1.09 for ftp, and the respective max should be 463,557,614

However if I assume I'm still far from the maximum it doesn't excude 1.06 ftp (which implies 100% dex mod)

[Monchat]

While I realize it's a lot to ask, I'm hoping you can do a controlled test on fTP. Need about 40 samples each, with and without a gorget (and elemental belt, if you happen to have one to match), using the usual SA+WS on starter zone mobs. Stack as much dex as possible on those tests, since higher base damage values make it easier to differentiate the results. Provide all sample values, not just high/low. Two sets of comparative results (one from each of you) would help make validation easier.

Latest from Gobli apparently have fTP at 1.0625 or something like that, but they may be assuming the 100% stat mod at 5/5.

What belt/gorget work with SHijin spiral lol is it known? Well if I dont have it i could abyseea and brew something that drops it.

[Konigwolf]

Shijin Spiral makes light with Apex Arrow so it has either fusion or fragmentation.

[Motenten]

Unfortunately, not sure on skillchain element. Thought I had it, but the list I have doesn't have H2H. Should be pretty easy to figure out, though.

Also, using the second and third test sets given above, it's pretty much an exact match for 1.0625 fTP and 100% dex mod, with 96 dex giving 81 WSC. The first one is believably within range, as well.

[Konigwolf]

SC test:

Dragon Kick (fragmentation) > Shijin Spiral = Light >> shijin has fusion element
Final Heaven (fusion, light) > shijin spiral = nothing >> shijin has neither fragmentation nor light element

A small ftp test (dozing off to zzz):

DMG +34, H2H skill 440
STR 134, DEX 126, Attack 739
5/5 shijin merit

With flame gorget and light belt, SA shijin on starter mobs:

704
804
773
790
769
758
787
736
769
802
776
721
742

Without gorget, belt:

651
626
654
581
665
658
665
653
635
641
658

[MarkovChain]

The above gorget + belt excludes 1.09 ftp // 94% dex as
3.15*floor(1.29*(52+34+12+floor(0.85*floor(0.94*126))))=803.25
It's still within 1.0625 / 100% dex range

The second test has too low numbers to conclude

[Motenten]

If Dex is 100%, that requires an fTP between 1.0392 and 1.0637 for the second test.

The first test would have an fTP between 1.0549 and 1.0598 if the gorget and belt were exactly 0.1. Using 100/1024, though, it would give an fTP between 1.0596 and 1.0645.

The tests themselves have insufficient number of samples to be sure of an fTP range. Best I can narrow it down while ignoring WSC is between 0.964 and 1.113.


For now I'll use 1.0625 in the spreadsheet for initial comparisons.

[Motenten]

Put this in the spreadsheet to look at some comparitive numbers (5/5 merits for Shijin) based on current fTP and WSC values.

Using Vere 90 as weapon (outside Abyssea):

Smite:
Tantra Tathlum
Aias Bonnet
Rancor Max
Brutal
Vulcan
Tantra +2
Heafoc
Rajas
Epona
Atheling
Black
Usukane
Tantra +2

Shijin:
Demonry
Aias Bonnet
Gorget
Brutal
Jupiter
Loki's Kaftan
Ample Gloves
Thundersoul
Thundersoul
Nifty
Warwolf
Byakko
Melee +2

Asuran:
Thew Bomblet
Aias Bonnet
Justiciar's
Brutal
Aesir
Tantra +2
Melee +2
Rajas
Spiral
Atheling
Anguinus
Usukane
Tantra +2


VS fodder mobs with capped pDif:
Shijin: 2253
Smite (-Impetus): 2191
Smite (+Impetus): 2573
Asuran: 1689

Bukhis (changed hands in both sets to Melee+2):
Shijin: 1549
Smite (-Impetus): 1723
Smite (+Impetus): 2126
Asuran: 1512

Faux-Qilin target (changed hands in both sets to Melee+2):
Shijin: 1002
Smite (-Impetus): 1235
Smite (+Impetus): 1262
Asuran: 965


On tougher mobs, Shijin is a bit ahead of Asuran; on weak mobs it's well ahead of Asuran. On tough mobs Smite has a comfortable lead over Shijin, while on weaker mobs they're about on par, if Impetus is down. If Impetus is up and acc is good, Smite takes a substantial lead.


Overall assessment:

If you have Smite, just keep using it.
If you don't have Smite, this is a mild upgrade from Asuran. On the most difficult mobs, Asuran will probably close the gap if you take advantage of the "Accuracy varies with TP" aspect, but on lower end stuff Shijin will be notably better.

The impact of Plague from Shijin is as yet unknown.

[MarkovChain]

It might be due to me not using the spreadsheet correctly but anyway something sounds wierd. On the shijin page If I want to compute the average number of hits per WS I do the sum of the column 'Q' times 'F' over all the lines. If the case of DA=20% and 95% hitrate for instance I find 5.2 when it should average to (1.2+1.2+3)*0.95=5.13
If I do the same stuff for victory smite page (columns H times F) I find 4.18 which is correct since (1.2+1.2+2)*0.95=4.18.

So did you forget to count DA on second hit for shijin calculus ?

Secondly for the data page that I downloaded I have a target of level 106, 560 def, 120 vit which I assume would be qilin ? If I push my accuracy enough, for instance by using extra madrigals, in order to cap accuracy and I compare the spreadsheet gives 1260 average shijin vs 1164 victory. So Shijin is technically superior than VS to me.

Ok now using impetus up & down feature I find with 95% melee acc / 95% ws acc on both sets :

impetus up : VS=> 1372
impetus down : VS=> 1164
shijin => 1260

So shinjin will beat victory/be equal for pure damage (but maybe not for in DPS due to aftermath) as long as your accuracy is good, no ?