New Monk Weapon skills

[Atoreis]

It might be due to me not using the spreadsheet correctly but anyway something sounds wierd. On the shijin page If I want to compute the average number of hits per WS I do the sum of the column 'Q' times 'F' over all the lines. If the case of DA=20% and 95% hitrate for instance I find 5.2 when it should average to (1.2+1.2+3)*0.95=5.13
If I do the same stuff for victory smite page (columns H times F) I find 4.18 which is correct since (1.2+1.2+2)*0.95=4.18.

So did you forget to count DA on second hit for shijin calculus ?

Secondly for the data page that I downloaded I have a target of level 106, 560 def, 120 vit which I assume would be qilin ? If I push my accuracy enough, for instance by using extra madrigals, in order to cap accuracy and I compare the spreadsheet gives 1260 average shijin vs 1164 victory. So Shijin is technically superior than VS to me.

Ok now using impetus up & down feature I find with 95% melee acc / 95% ws acc on both sets :

impetus up : VS=> 1372
impetus down : VS=> 1164
shijin => 1260

So shinjin will beat victory/be equal for pure damage (but maybe not for in DPS due to aftermath) as long as your accuracy is good, no ?

Its all cool on paper but not really match reality. I have only 2 parses from Qilin. First is mine and it was mostly with impetus up and my avg Vsmite is 2420 (971, 1116, 1209, 1788, 2237, 2331, 2469, 2801, 2832, 3182, 3758, 4348) Note I had fighter roll and minuet V but that shouldnt pump my damage by +80% from what you got on "paper".

2nd parse is some JP MNK and fight was longer so there was impetus up and down. His avg Vsmite is 2106. He had chaos roll and minuet V (1214, 1231, 1256, 1407, 1520, 1569, 1647, 1666, 1774, 1865, 1958, 2162, 2241, 2324, 2534, 2536, 2570, 2672, 3227, 3264, 3608)

On all parses I did against Kaggen Pil and Qilin I was never below 1800 and some of them (Kaggen) can lower your avg damage by a lot with Bio+statsdown tp move. Idk what you doing wrong that theory doesn't match reality (maybe you doesn't count temp items that you get when doing VW?) but its far off.

[Motenten]

It might be due to me not using the spreadsheet correctly but anyway something sounds wierd. On the shijin page If I want to compute the average number of hits per WS I do the sum of the column 'Q' times 'F' over all the lines. If the case of DA=20% and 95% hitrate for instance I find 5.2 when it should average to (1.2+1.2+3)*0.95=5.13
If I do the same stuff for victory smite page (columns H times F) I find 4.18 which is correct since (1.2+1.2+2)*0.95=4.18.

So did you forget to count DA on second hit for shijin calculus ?

Going to need to review this....

Yep, there's an error. When I rewrote it, I got rid of some numbers that I shouldn't have (the second DA/TA/QA values; they're the same as the first for mnk, but different for dnc; I'd deleted them since mnk didn't need, but the formulas still referenced them).

In the case of the sum of F*Q, the result should be 5.40 with 20% DA. F column is the number of swings, not the number of hits, so acc won't factor into the result.

Fixed version uploaded.

Secondly for the data page that I downloaded I have a target of level 106, 560 def, 120 vit which I assume would be qilin ?

Select the target on the Setup page (L1). That info gets used in the Data page. Qilin has completely made-up numbers, but is intended to represent a very difficult mob that you probably won't cap acc on, etc.

If I push my accuracy enough, for instance by using extra madrigals, in order to cap accuracy and I compare the spreadsheet gives 1260 average shijin vs 1164 victory. So Shijin is technically superior than VS to me.

Doing a little comparison.. Added 50 acc to each set (you can put arbitrary adjustments on the blue Set Bonus line on the Gear page) to cap accuracy. With both capped on accuracy, but cRatio still around 1.0, the best/closest I can get is 1140 Shijin, 1214 Smite. If you could copy the gear lists you're using for each set, that might help me understand what you're seeing.


From what I'm looking at, if you're at capped accuracy on both, Shijin has a slight lead at high cRatios and Smite has a slight lead at low cRatios (excluding Impetus).

[Motenten]

Its all cool on paper but not really match reality. I have only 2 parses from Qilin.

Note: the values I have for Qilin are fake. I haven't gotten decent estimates on NM stats on pretty much anything, so I just had to make up a 'difficult mob' to replace Bukhis (for which I at least had real estimates for, even if it was a bit rough) after the level cap increased to 95. The name on it is "Qilin?" since I didn't really have anything better to call it.

[MarkovChain]

Its all cool on paper but not really match reality. I have only 2 parses from Qilin. First is mine and it was mostly with impetus up and my avg Vsmite is 2420 (971, 1116, 1209, 1788, 2237, 2331, 2469, 2801, 2832, 3182, 3758, 4348) Note I had fighter roll and minuet V but that shouldnt pump my damage by +80% from what you got on "paper".

It matches a mob with extraordinary def and level which is not qilin then. But it doesn't matter because contrary to pupular thoughs, crit ws will not be greatly superior to others in low pdif case unless it's both low pdif and low level corection. In this cas this is due to VS being not a very good weapon skill if it couldn't crit.

2nd parse is some JP MNK and fight was longer so there was impetus up and down. His avg Vsmite is 2106. He had chaos roll and minuet V (1214, 1231, 1256, 1407, 1520, 1569, 1647, 1666, 1774, 1865, 1958, 2162, 2241, 2324, 2534, 2536, 2570, 2672, 3227, 3264, 3608)

It means qilin has no defense lol, doesn't really matter.

On all parses I did against Kaggen Pil and Qilin I was never below 1800 and some of them (Kaggen) can lower your avg damage by a lot with Bio+statsdown tp move. Idk what you doing wrong that theory doesn't match reality (maybe you doesn't count temp items that you get when doing VW?) but its far off.

It means Qvoidwatch NMs doesn't have unusual defense just accuracy at worse.

[Atoreis]

It matches a mob with extraordinary def and level which is not qilin then. But it doesn't matter because contrary to pupular thoughs, crit ws will not be greatly superior to others in low pdif case unless it's both low pdif and low level corection. In this cas this is due to VS being not a very good weapon skill if it couldn't crit.







It means qilin has no defense lol, doesn't really matter.



It means Qvoidwatch NMs doesn't have unusual defense just accuracy at worse.

Well you guys need to go on Qilin/Kaggen/Pil and test it with Spharai.

[Monchat]

The queston that needs an answer: clear winner between spharai+shijin versus verethragna + victory smite? I Need to decide which I'll upgrade first @99 lol.

[Monchat]

Its all cool on paper but not really match reality. I have only 2 parses from Qilin. First is mine and it was mostly with impetus up and my avg Vsmite is 2420 (971, 1116, 1209, 1788, 2237, 2331, 2469, 2801, 2832, 3182, 3758, 4348) Note I had fighter roll and minuet V but that shouldnt pump my damage by +80% from what you got on "paper".

2nd parse is some JP MNK and fight was longer so there was impetus up and down. His avg Vsmite is 2106. He had chaos roll and minuet V (1214, 1231, 1256, 1407, 1520, 1569, 1647, 1666, 1774, 1865, 1958, 2162, 2241, 2324, 2534, 2536, 2570, 2672, 3227, 3264, 3608)

On all parses I did against Kaggen Pil and Qilin I was never below 1800 and some of them (Kaggen) can lower your avg damage by a lot with Bio+statsdown tp move. Idk what you doing wrong that theory doesn't match reality (maybe you doesn't count temp items that you get when doing VW?) but its far off.

Just means VW NMs have high level correction but low stats. Low stats low level correction both WS will be comparable. High stats and level correction, comparable. VS should still win slightly with after maths, though.

[MarkovChain]

Well you guys need to go on Qilin/Kaggen/Pil and test it with Spharai.

Don't need to fight qilin or parse to know what damage you can do. If VS does 1.8k damage to qilin, so does shijin. Proof above.

[MarkovChain]

Just means VW NMs have high level correction but low stats. Low stats low level correction both WS will be comparable. High stats and level correction, comparable. VS should still win slightly with after maths, though.

With the spreadsheet I find around 4% less damage with spharai and with my simulator I find 3% less. I just need confimation from motenten that I'm using spharai correctly in the spreadsheet by ajusting the ODD from 30 to 24 when using spharai ?

It's not exagerated to claim that spharai is more usuable as you don't have to assume ODD. We just need to know if relic are going to get an improved 3x proc and if the afterglow effect on empy will not suck. Also after reading the info on BG on the plague it seems pretty cool. For instance when farming dynamis mobs you are likely to never see tp moves (right now it's usually doing a TP right at the end). For longer fights it's a good help and paired with counter it's great for tanking. If acc is capped and coutner rate is capped (which it should be with spharai) you will also get a small DPS boost.

[Monchat]

well 4% is neglectible imo if you think the gearsets posted by motenten are not completly optimized, anmd theat level 99 will definately bring more WS gear. For example, shura kabuto +1 has a common augment on HQ3 with WSdmg+3% DEX+5, and can get attack if lucky, which favors shijin fists more than asuran fists. Next im not sure if gorget is better than love torque or that New DEX+6 agi+6 necklace. For the hands there is also the ZNM kote, byakko's can be augmented with DEX+5. For the body, Osode is better han loki, and can be further augmented with DEX and double attack as common HQ3. There will be stats+8 rings @ 99 too.

Obviously im not going to try to augment osode or byakko before the level cap increase since there is a high chance lv 99 gear will blow this out of the water, but just saying that 4% difference with non optimized gearsets is not a lot.