One Tank Job Out of 20 Is Bad Game Design

[Malamasala]

What's more pathetic is that out of 18 people, with abyssea having been released for so long, only one of them had PLD leveled and geared. What would you call that? Bad human design?

It is called band wagon mentality. They only level what is considered good at the time.

[Alhanelem]

It is called band wagon mentality. They only level what is considered good at the time.

quoted for truth

Comment deleted by Moderator

[Comment deleted by Moderator] And I have other jobs. I'm not speaking for myself, I'm speaking for "The 99 percent." Meaning, all the people who aren't elitists and still find a fun challenge in things that elitists call easy. If people don't say something that's a load of crap, I won't have any reason to speak against it. You think XYZ thing is easy. That's great. Some people think it isn't. That doesn't automatically make those people idiots, and that is what I take issue with. Although you are now taking a nasty offensive attitude with me, you at least don't normally stereotypically declare everyone idiots.

That's all there is to say on that. If you think something's easy, great. Good for you (I'm serious, not sarcastic). Just don't act like EVERYONE is like you and thinks the same thing.

[Zagen]

I'm speaking for "The 99 percent." Meaning, all the people who aren't elitists and still find a fun challenge in things that elitists call easy.

Why are you speaking for them in a thread for content that wasn't designed for them?

[Afania]

ITT: Leveling jobs takes forever. Learning how to be competent on your non-favorite job is impossible.

I've tried to lv MNK when Abyssea was MNKwagon just so it's "easier" for me to get things done, and I couldn't take it past lv 13. The job is boring as fk to play with, and I can't help if I fall asleep whenever I play it.

So no, lving a job is hard for me, I can't overcome boringness when I play the game for fun not for work. If it's easy for you, good for you. But don't use your standard to judge others.

And getting a second account is hard for me too, period. Again, you can afford $26 doesn't mean I can, not everyone live the same life, I have more important stuff to spend money on. If you can afford extra account, good for you. Just leave others alone.

And stop thinking you're so elite and better than others just because you can stand the boringness of lving a job you don't like to play with. It has nothing to do with your skill/gear/knowdge and w/e. Like playing MNK in Abyssea is hard? You pretty much just engage and pop JA/WS.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Like playing MNK in Abyssea is hard? You pretty much just engage and pop JA/WS.

And stupid people can't even do that properly.

[Rearden]

Yeah, any MNK can 2 man Shinryu/Rani etc. Just JA and WS.

[Mirage]

I don't give a shit about all the personal attack and stuff in this thread, I just wanted to say I don't really consider anything that can be 3-4manned with average gear (empy +1, no empy weapon) without any real chance of wiping to be hard. This probably includes 98% of abyssea, including most zone bosses and catuare. Unbrewed, that is.

Even pantokrator is more annoying than he is hard. It isn't hard to put together a strategy with like 6-8 people where you cannot possibly lose, unless your tank and healers DC.

Most fights actually get harder the more bodies you throw at it anyway.

Is it hard for certain jobs to solo certain NMs? Sure. Does it make the NM inherently hard when it was designed to be taken down by a group? Not really. That's like saying Windurst mission 10 is the hardest fight in the game "cause i want to solo it on whm".

Almost every fight in this game is designed to be beaten by a group, saying they are hard because you can't solo them on whatever job is just ridiculous.

[kewitt]

or maybe you could take the week to level PLD to level 95 which includes getting skill ups, problem solved. Now your LS will have 2 PLDs.

[Alhanelem]

I honestly see it being difficult for them to design a fight to be won by 6-18 that can't also be one by the 2-4 of the pro-est of the pros. In virtually all cases, the difficulty in a large group comes from TP spam. When you lowman anything, that TP spam is suddenly not a problem. The only real counter to that is super high regain so the monster spams TP no matter what.

Probably the only thing that will please you is a new Absolute Virtue-type mob...

Like playing MNK in Abyssea is hard? You pretty much just engage and pop JA/WS.

Like playing WHM in *anywhere* is hard? You pretty much just sit there and pop cures.

..... Anything can be made to sound super easy by oversimplifying.

"Like playing Tetris on a gameboy is hard? You pretty much just stack the blocks..."

"Like playing Battletoads on NES with 2 players is hard? you pretty much just get to the end of each level.."

*ahem* *deep breath*

Anyway.... as far as the actual topic goes, as I said before: I don't see any reason to complain that a job which is hardly ever used these days is getting a chance to shine in an event. Shouldn't we all be happy PLD has a purpose?

[Zagen]

I honestly see it being difficult for them to design a fight to be won by 6-18 that can't also be one by the 2-4 of the pro-est of the pros. In virtually all cases, the difficulty in a large group comes from TP spam. When you lowman anything, that TP spam is suddenly not a problem. The only real counter to that is super high regain so the monster spams TP no matter what.

When Voidwatch requires almost every single job/spell/ja for procs as options, lower your player count = lower proc rate = lower drop rate = not really worth small manning. There's a video floating around of a SCH soloing the Harpie VWNM so it doesn't take a huge group but without procs your drops suck and you've just wasted your time.

TP Spam if it is a concern at all is something that only happens with ignorant players. So 6 vs. 18 TP spam should be less for the 18 as they'll proc faster as well as kill faster barring your example of a regain mob.