[dev1024] Job Adjustments - Scarlet Delirium

[Soidisant]

You realise that the LS WHM's prefer me on DRK over other DD's because I don't MP sponge as much as the other DD's right? And I have WAR levelled so they could easily shift me onto that instead. Hell every single one of our WHM's has an empy DD job so they could even get me to WHM and go DD themselves.

[Alkimi]

I'm usually the one healing him and it's never an issue. The SAMs and WARs require much more healing just because of Catastrophe. Not sure how you can feel sorry for us, if you're staggering voidwatch NMs regularly then you pretty much have infinite MP anyway. What else am I going to cure, the Aegis PLD who takes next to no damage from anything?

This ability only works when people are playing inefficiently and is more of an afterthought/gamble, then a tactical decision to increase one's performance.

Unreliable.

Works against basic party mechanics for damage mitigation and death prevention.

How is doing more damage being inefficient? Melee DDs will take damage, that's why WHM was invented. If you want to use your 'party mechanics for damage mitigation and death prevention' then just use summoners, but enjoy taking 3 times as long to kill stuff.

[Chriscoffey]

Yes but you are comparing apples to oranges. You have the benefit of a relic with a drain to heal your HP where most darks don't. You can't really sit back and compare then say everything is fine when getting that kind of benefit. Both mnk and war abilities benefit them no matter their weapon. The job abilities should be pushed out as a benefit to all who play the job not just a select few. I have had very few mages that actually let me do my thing full blast with dark because they said I was being a MP sponge and no amount of reasoning would convince them otherwise.

Some people get spam healed because they are idiots and others need spam healed because they are pushing the absolute limits of the job. It just depends on who it is and the situations they are in. I can't comment for everyone playing but i do know most mages bitch if they have to cure anyone because they are for the most part lazy to use MP.

[Soidisant]

Yes but you are comparing apples to oranges. You have the benefit of a relic with a drain to heal your HP where most darks don't. You can't really sit back and compare then say everything is fine when getting that kind of benefit. Both mnk and war abilities benefit them no matter their weapon. The job abilities should be pushed out as a benefit to all who play the job not just a select few. I have had very few mages that actually let me do my thing full blast with dark because they said I was being a MP sponge and no amount of reasoning would convince them otherwise.

Some people get spam healed because they are idiots and others need spam healed because they are pushing the absolute limits of the job. It just depends on who it is and the situations they are in. I can't comment for everyone playing but i do know most mages bitch if they have to cure anyone because they are for the most part lazy to use MP.

A DRK going all out is not going to MP sponge any more than any other DD apart from when Souleater is up and it eats solace SS for several swings first anyway. Every other DD in range is going to take that AoE damage too. The only difference is that the DRK is getting a much needed boost out of it.

For comparison, a WAR has to have hate to get use out of Retaliation. A MNK has to have hate to get use out of Counterstance. They don't get those bonuses fulltime and both require sacrifices that increase the chance of dying. Just like Scarlet Delirium.

Edit: And by fulltime I mean they won't have hate 100% of the time rather than recasts.

[Chriscoffey]

Yeah and i agree with that however they also get restraint and impetus which requires not having hate and is along the same lines as what SD should have been for dark. Those are just extra abilities IF they have hate as dark has decreased defense by a considerable margin already plus once LR is active you are getting beat down.

This means you are getting more cures than needed by a mage because of your lowered resistance factor and you have to decrease your DOT rate to either lose hate to another DD or just tank it with a physical down set which also decreases your DOT. This in turn means you need apocalypse to make it effective for curing which most dark knights do not have.

This is something I tried to stress with idiot BLMs before not using - enmity and just going all out on a HNM without balancing out hate issues with power. I mean they consider doing 200 more damage and getting 1 shotted more elite than nuking the full time and never getting hate. I always found that stupid game play.

[Taint2]

Its a good ability get over it. Where is sucks (fodder mobs) it doesn't matter, where it shines it is a good boost. Most of the people complaining aren't using it or are using it wrong. Its not as mindless as restraint,impetus,counter,retaliation maybe thats where the issue is.

[StingRay104]

Soidistant says SD works great and I outparse all the other dd's.

Chriscoffey says I feel sorry for your whms if your fulltiming it

Soidistant says my whms love me because i'm awesome, trust me SD isn't as bad it makes my Catastrophes do great drains.

Alkimi says Hi i'm the whm and I can speak for all the ls whms in the ls when I say we love SD and DRKs on mobs because we don't cure as much. Seriously its so nice when they Catastrophe huge amounts of hp to themselves while keeping up high damage. We hate wars and sams because they aren't as good as DRK.

Chriscoffey says Ah the plot thickens, so the your concept is Apoc DRK makes SD work better, as in we need to all have just one weapon in order to negate all the negative of this one ability whereas jobs like mnk and war can benefit fulltime from impetus and restraint with no negative effects? Are you lazy or just stupid?

Stingray104 says If you think that having incredibly situational JAs is beneficial to the job then lets start doing so to other jobs for instance lets make afflatus solace get its bonus off of only the first cure spell and then last only 1 min. Wow this is fun lets make restraint be up for 3 mins and then after first hit is landed if it crits then it goes into a 1 min buff otherwise you wasted the ability, seems kinda pointless but sure why not. I got it lets make all AOE spells also hit players that'll be awesome, and best part is it can make SD actually more useful.

I can go on and on about Scarlet Diarrhea, sure it can be used, but name 1 other job ability that has such extreme criteria in order for it to be useful. They should have done it the sublimation way I suggested or the afflatus way that others have suggested, that way it could truly be beneficial no matter what you were facing, plus it actually follows the theme of DRK's take damage to kill the crap outta you concept.

[Soidisant]

Sure they got Restraint and Impetus. And what did we get? Our Last Resort duration increased six fold. Now what adds more damage. Restraint, Impetus or an extra 150 seconds of Last Resort/Desperate Blows. I'm fairly certain it is the third option.

Yes you get far more use out of Scarlet Delirium if you have an Apocalypse but taking that out of the equation is like taking Ukon/Vere out of the equation for WAR and MNK. But if you take away Ukko's Fury from WAR's or Victory Smite from MNK's then there isn't a great deal of damage difference between DRK, WAR and MNK. Apocalypse makes DRK a ton better in exactly the same way that Verethragna and Ukonvasara do for WAR and MNK.

A parse between a non-empy/woe WAR, DRK and MNK would be pretty close if it was a level playing field (i.e. outside Abyssea). Part of DRK's problem was that other DD jobs got monstrous Empyrean WS'es and DRK did not, at least not inside Abyssea. And because everyone still has that lolDRK mentality from Abyssea, we are seen as terrible DD's outside Abyssea when that is not the case at all.

[Zoner]

Sure they got Restraint and Impetus. And what did we get? Our Last Resort duration increased six fold. Now what adds more damage. Restraint, Impetus or an extra 150 seconds of Last Resort/Desperate Blows. I'm fairly certain it is the third option.

Yes you get far more use out of Scarlet Delirium if you have an Apocalypse but taking that out of the equation is like taking Ukon/Vere out of the equation for WAR and MNK. But if you take away Ukko's Fury from WAR's or Victory Smite from MNK's then there isn't a great deal of damage difference between DRK, WAR and MNK. Apocalypse makes DRK a ton better in exactly the same way that Verethragna and Ukonvasara do for WAR and MNK.

A parse between a non-empy/woe WAR, DRK and MNK would be pretty close if it was a level playing field (i.e. outside Abyssea). Part of DRK's problem was that other DD jobs got monstrous Empyrean WS'es and DRK did not, at least not inside Abyssea. And because everyone still has that lolDRK mentality from Abyssea, we are seen as terrible DD's outside Abyssea when that is not the case at all.

Are you really comparing a relic Apocalypse to the free candy that's practically given to War known as Ukonvasara?

[Soidisant]

Because Relics are hard to get when you can duo 250 currency a day? If you really wanted a Relic, you could get 500 currency a day easily now. And the prices will probably drop now with how easy CoP Dyna made currency to get.

Ok a Relic may be slightly harder to get than an Ukon but the difference definitely isn't that big anymore. I wish it was because I hated how easy Empy's were to get but Relics really aren't much harder to get now.