Stage2 Ochain/Daudarbla

[Kimble]

Yes.



Your opinion. It takes a lot more effort both to farm and to fight. VNMs is mostly AFK time with a little bit of paying attention every few minutes.

Hell, even if the zone is heavily camped, you can SOLO gold box farm there for KIs, you cant do that with VNMs.

[Masamunai]

Rated up Zumi thread, feel free to make it explode 100.

Only reply from Camate i found on this topic is about T3 colorsouls droprates... nothing about congestion @ T2s.

[Arcon]

In the time it takes you to upgrade ONE t1 - > t2 - > t3, you probably could have finished an entire chloris/glavoid pop set <_< If you have multiple people, probably multiple pop sets.

Glavoid and chloris took ~2-3 days to finish, while doing colorless soul trials for an ochain took almost TWO weeks.

One way to see it. Another is, that getting a T2 trig is, on average, a 20min effort. killing a T2 VNM takes 2min. Upgrade rate ~25% means 8min actual play time for a T3. 10min kill time for T3 (including search for it) places you at 40min play time for 1.5 souls. So the actual effort invested in obtaining the required souls is about 35 hours.

Hell, even if the zone is heavily camped, you can SOLO gold box farm there for KIs, you cant do that with VNMs.

Again, that costs definitely a lot more time to do solo, especially since it will only give you one KI. For VNMs on the other hand it wouldn't matter if you're solo or trio or in an alliance with outside people giving their emotional support. Again, it rewards casual play as opposed to continuous mass-play. Just a different way to approach it. Overall, you will need more time to upgrade a harp/shield than a weapon, but the kind of investment is different, and not everyone objects to it.

[MarkovChain]

In the time it takes you to upgrade ONE t1 - > t2 - > t3, you probably could have finished an entire chloris/glavoid pop set <_< If you have multiple people, probably multiple pop sets.

Glavoid and chloris took ~2-3 days to finish, while doing colorless soul trials for an ochain took almost TWO weeks.

I'll finish my 75th soul tonight and started last saturday.

[Kristal]

I don't see how souls can ever be compared to any other emp weapon path.

It's very easy/simple to farm chloris KI's and glavoid KI's, it simply takes TIME, and there's multiple options to acquire the KI's. For colorless souls, sometimes you can go days without getting many(or any)souls at all, that never happens with any other emp :/

All NM's camped? Np - > Cleave for gold chests

What do you do when all T3 Nm's are camped? Or t2's? You afk...

T3 VNMs 'simply take TIME' as well, just in a different form. (And given the luck-based nature of chest farming, can take a LOT longer..)

SE is increasing the conversion from T1 to T2 pop, so it should be easier to get T3 pops faster.

[Rearden]

Yeah sadly since PChan isn't trolling I'll agree with him, it took me 1 day for plates, 6 for souls and 9h for horns.

[Masamunai]

ewwww... i'm honestly amazed at you guys' performances. o.O

Especially this quote:

Another is, that getting a T2 trig is, on average, a 20min effort. killing a T2 VNM takes 2min. Upgrade rate ~25% means 8min actual play time for a T3. 10min kill time for T3 (including search for it) places you at 40min play time for 1.5 souls. So the actual effort invested in obtaining the required souls is about 35 hours

You are way off with some of your estimations: killing takes 2 min if it's Koios solo or at least duo on Chione/Gamayun, agreed... but 20mins effort for a color change on average is lol. I would apply same rule as for HNMs in old Kings camps: multiply any % by 10%, in our case that would translates into 25%*10% = 2.5% ie 1/40 from an heavy camped T2.
Maybe more like 1/30 (3.33%) from a less camped T2. So at a rate of 1 T2 pop each 10mins, with an average 3% chance to color change accounting for competition, an upgrader needs actually 100%/3% = 33 T2 pops at minimum, ie 330mins which is much more realistic than 20mins... sadly.
This morning for example: 120mins for only 5 claims @ Koios vs one solo competitor, 0/5 on color change. At grauberg is much worse and i can't even imagine @ Chione...

In comparison, it takes me (solo) half that time to get all KIs for a Sobek pop set, with comparable competition.

[Frost]

H2H Trial: (Same trial basically for Polearm & Scythe)

Trial 68: Tumbling Truffle x3
Trial 69: Helldiver x3
Trial 70: Orctrap x3

Trial 71: Intulo x4
Trial 72: Ramponneau x4
Trial 73: Keeper of Halidom x4
Trial 74: Shoggoth x6
Trial 75: Farruca Fly x6
Trial 1138: Chesma x8

Trial 1139: Two-leaf Chloris Bud x50
>Chloris x25 - 50x
>> Ophanim 25x - 50x
>>> Halimede 25x - 50x
>>> Vetehinen 25x - 50x
>> Treble Noctules
>>> Cannered Noz 25x - 52,793,472x
>> Hedetet 25x - 50x
>>> Gancanagh 25x - 50x
>> Chukwa 25x - 50x

Trial 1909: Ulhuadshi's Fang x50
> Ulhuadshi 25x - 50x
>> Amun 25x - 50x
>> Pallid Percy 25x - 50x

Trial 2307: Dragua's Scale x75
> Dragua 25x - 50x
>> Hazhdiha

Shield:

Step 1: Buy Level 85 Sheild
Trial 4397: Iron Plates x50
> Iron Giant 25x - 50x
>> Tabilla, Teekesselchen, or Koghatu 25x - 50x

Trial 4398: Colorless Souls x75
> Colorless Souls x75
>> Brulo or Maere 75x; or Ogopogo 38 - 75x
>>> Koios or Gamayun 75x - 750x; or Chione 38x - 750x
>>>> Tier I VNM 38x - 30,000x

Trial 4399: Azdaja's Horn x75
> Azdaja x 38x - 75x
>> Deelgeed x 38x - 75x


H2H:
40 - 90 hours (with ZERO competition for pop NMs, and assuming all the NMs pop between 1- 3 hours)

Shield:
50 Hours assuming 1/1 color changes on all VNMs, and and 2/2 drops on all VNMs, Giants, and dragon; under optimal conditions spending no more than 5 minutes per fight.
6,000 Hours (+/- 500 hours) assuming the more realistic 1/10 color change on Tier II's, and the 1/40 color Change on the Tier I's; with 100% single drops.

90 hours max versus 6,000...
I may be an optimist, but the ranges are a bit off, 50 hour range between min/max versus 5,950 hours between min/max...

Square really needs to hire people to play on the production servers to actually evaluate the game, and make adjustments based on reality. Instead of doing everything on paper, and ignoring external variables like time, competition, and "Real Life".

[Rearden]

It took me 63 hours to 3box an Ochain and I had absolutely terrible change rates, less than averages people have parsed at BG. 6000 is a strawman argument.

[Arcon]

You are way off with some of your estimations: killing takes 2 min if it's Koios solo or at least duo on Chione/Gamayun, agreed... but 20mins effort for a color change on average is lol.

2min for every NM, Koios I can kill in 1min.

I would apply same rule as for HNMs in old Kings camps: multiply any % by 10%, in our case that would translates into 25%*10% = 2.5% ie 1/40 from an heavy camped T2.

Bla. Competition doesn't factor into my calculations at all, because if you don't pop it, you don't have to kill it. Read what I said how the time was calculated.

H2H:
40 - 90 hours (with ZERO competition for pop NMs, and assuming all the NMs pop between 1- 3 hours)

Shield:
50 Hours assuming 1/1 color changes on all VNMs, and and 2/2 drops on all VNMs, Giants, and dragon; under optimal conditions spending no more than 5 minutes per fight.
6,000 Hours (+/- 500 hours) assuming the more realistic 1/10 color change on Tier II's, and the 1/40 color Change on the Tier I's; with 100% single drops.

Making stuff up isn't like you. 6000 hours? 1/10? 1/40? 100% single? None of that comes close to the true values. And your H2H values are also quite far off. 40h is the pre-Abyssea stage alone (if you're lucky, not on average).