Hvergelmir WTF SE

[Economizer]

until the "resources" you are "costing" become significant, everything is fine. e.g. unless the WHM(s) is/are struggling to keep everyone alive, then you're not damaging the group's success.

But that's the thing! I never judged if he was damaging the groups success, only that it costs resources to do what he is doing.

I'm a little bugged that I got such a negative reply on such a bland answer, while we have others around here saying things like "Summoners is a shitty Warrior" or whatever statements are flying around.

[Leonlionheart]

I'm a little bugged that I got such a negative reply on such a bland answer, while we have others around here saying things like "Summoners is a shitty Warrior" or whatever statements are flying around.

Well, I guess everything that can deal damage is a shitty Warrior in a sense now isn't it?

:trollface: u mad?

Edit: /epeen off

[SpankWustler]

Well, I guess everything that can deal damage is a shitty Warrior in a sense now isn't it?

But, doesn't everything that can deal damage include Warrior itself? Man, in that case, that's some heavy and philosophical stuff...

[Leonlionheart]

But, doesn't everything that can deal damage include Warrior itself? Man, in that case, that's some heavy and philosophical stuff...

I had something witty to say, but I forgot it.

[Economizer]

I had something witty to say, but I forgot it.

That's because Warrior is a shitty SpankWustler.

[Dallas]

If you are too stupid to handle multiple roles in a party, play WAR.

[Tannlore]

I was not attacking you, condemning your playstyle or saying anything that wasn't completely true. I was merely answering the question. Note that I said "even if you are contributing significantly" which would be everyone hitting the mob. Further, you said "doing damage with my staff", implying you were hitting the mob in the theoretical situation.

Please don't assume everyone is attacking you, I was merely answering the question you asked about gameplay mechanics. TP build costs allied resources.

The problems of assumptions is that it is very easy to do it yourself. My post was generalized on purpose. I never said "Economizer, you" directly for a reason.

"This point needs to stop being brought up" as opposed to, "Economizer, You need to stop bringing this point up" mostly because you didn't bring this point up in the first place. I even added a at the end to blunt the sharpness of what I knew was something you might see as directed at you. You do realize this yes? And now this post IS directed right at you. This is the difference. Not every strongly worded response is an attack either. Stop assuming so.

Now to address the rest of your post:

1)Not every situation has side mobs for you to hit,2) and other methods of TP gain can either expensive items or 3)other factors that drain ally resources.

As I said earlier: Learn to adapt your play style to the weapon, not the weapon to your play style

1) No other mobs to gain TP: use items, or use perp- staves. Yes the emp staff can infact come off a smn's back (mine does)
2) the cost of items to fuel my TP is of no concern/effect to the alliance. It is of concern to my pocket book. Quite frankly (And if this sounds rude I'm sorry, but it's true) the alliance can flush it's concern for my gil's pocket book down the toilet where it belongs.
3)Other factors being what? It boils down to the player knowing how to use the staff. People have focused so much on how bad the staff is and it isn't. The PLAYERS are bad, not the staff.

(this is generalized and not directed at you btw)
Stop blaming the staff, blame the bad players using the staff.

[Leonlionheart]

If you are too stupid to handle multiple roles in a party, play WAR.

obligatory

u mad bro?

[Tannlore]

If you can make it to 2500MP in your Myrkr set you're only gaining 100 MP over +2 perp cost staves + MM. Not including weather/day bonus on hands, you need body+2, feet+2, ring and ToM Perpetuation cost -6 staff to break even on perpetuation of Avatars (before Refresh). So we're looking at a difference of 16 MP/tick vs 16.6 MP/tick (if my math is right?). Also, over TP at all and you're losing a chunk of what Hvergelmir actually has. Add in regain earring though, and you're in the clear.

That being said, you should be justified to use the Regain +2 Atmacite in Voidwatch, which actually creates a big draw to the MP recover aspect of the weapon. (The Atmacite in question gets +2 at Lv.10, as seen on the test server).

Still, Hvergelmir is only a niche weapon. That's it. SCH and BLM will benefit more from MM in Abyssea, and MAB/Sphere: Refresh Atmacite in Voidwatch. Even still, it's a bad idea to melee on any of those jobs.

Unless you have said criteria met, you shouldn't use the weapon.

I had to bite on this one

Problem with theorycrafting is paper math is only good on paper! Having the weapon myself, here is what experience has shown me:

I have free avatars now, at 95 avatars will cost me 2 perp a tick with emp staff on, or nothing free+ with my perp- staves on. Perp is still and will not be an issue. However that being said. Here is what experience has taught me and I welcome anyone on asura to come and test with me btw:

In the time it takes me to build 100% tp I can overcome naked perp costs + the cost of a ward and rage BP outside of abyssea soloing. (yes I know this isn't in a great big giant alliance set up)

In abyssea with atmas it takes me much less time to achive the above effect (and I can do this in a great big alliance set up.. hey!)

with MM it takes me a bit longer to recover the lost mp it, outside of abyssea I have no hopes of recovering that mp without dismissing and siphoning or resting or ideling and letting my auto-refresh recover it.

And that's the point: It's not just the perp you recover with this staff, it's the cost of blood pacting you get back. Perp recover is a thing of the past and easily overcome with just gear. You can get free avatars without a weapon all together now.

[Dallas]

obligatory

u mad bro?

Remedial SMN lessons. Get some. +2 magian staves are worthless in the hands of a competent and well geared SMN. You are obviously neither and everyone can see it. Go back to "love my WAR." It suits you better.