SE, Temper Activation Rate

[Swords]

It's been suggested before a JA that copies buffs on the RDM to the party, though it may be over-powered.

I can't really see why it would be considered overpowered, all it really does is reduce our casting load as a whole, seeing as most spells are castable by other jobs and/or have an AoE version of it.

[Septimus]

It's been suggested before a JA that copies buffs on the RDM to the party, though it may be over-powered.

And that is why I suggested an aura effect for it. The RDM would have to take some risk by being close to the mob when using this buff on others, and Square likes that kind of risk-taking. And since there is no mob with an "Occasionally Attacks Once" aura, they wouldn't have to worry about it being over-powered by overwriting a monster aura. I am trying to be realistic about making this a very good spell that would be useful in party situations.

[saevel]

Personally, I think Temper should be self-cast only, but cause an Aura effect on the RDM that the rest of the party gains the effect if they are in decently close proximity.

But I would like new spells to cause RDMs to get party invitations if we are indeed running out of spell slots.

I agree on the aura / sphere effect would of been nice. I can get with the idea of sharing our buffs with those within range of us.

But I have to disagree with the whole "Party Invitations" thing, we don't do PT invites anymore because we don't have XP parties. Abyssea stuff is based entirely off procing skills, RDM could have "Cure VII" and WHM would still be picked over RDM due to them having the light procs. And everything after this is either lowman "friend" stuff, or big shell stuff. We really gotta get out of the pre abyssea "6 man XP Invites" mentality. Abysea XP groups now have 2~4 people afking and some lv 40 guy opening chests, alliance leaders /sh for invites for awhile before filling up, their not being picky about who joins. The only real job discrimination happens with abyssea proc's, which is outside the scope of this discussion.

The "Spell Slot" scare is not real, at least not server side. Their talking about a limit on the PS2 memory and the fact that every additional ~anything~ takes up precious kilobits of memory. Every JA, Spell, Item, Auto-Translation, Zone and Inventory item must fit inside a very small space for the PS2 client. They've been running out of that space for a long time, they scalped the auto-translate system to make more room for new game stuff but they can't do that much longer.

So SE isn't "wasting spell slots" because there are no spell slots, just PS2 memory. The PC clients wouldn't be effected provided SE branch's the client like their recent survey suggests they'll do.

[FrankReynolds]

I agree on the aura / sphere effect would of been nice. I can get with the idea of sharing our buffs with those within range of us.

But I have to disagree with the whole "Party Invitations" thing, we don't do PT invites anymore because we don't have XP parties. Abyssea stuff is based entirely off procing skills, RDM could have "Cure VII" and WHM would still be picked over RDM due to them having the light procs. And everything after this is either lowman "friend" stuff, or big shell stuff. We really gotta get out of the pre abyssea "6 man XP Invites" mentality. Abysea XP groups now have 2~4 people afking and some lv 40 guy opening chests, alliance leaders /sh for invites for awhile before filling up, their not being picky about who joins. The only real job discrimination happens with abyssea proc's, which is outside the scope of this discussion.

The "Spell Slot" scare is not real, at least not server side. Their talking about a limit on the PS2 memory and the fact that every additional ~anything~ takes up precious kilobits of memory. Every JA, Spell, Item, Auto-Translation, Zone and Inventory item must fit inside a very small space for the PS2 client. They've been running out of that space for a long time, they scalped the auto-translate system to make more room for new game stuff but they can't do that much longer.

So SE isn't "wasting spell slots" because there are no spell slots, just PS2 memory. The PC clients wouldn't be effected provided SE branch's the client like their recent survey suggests they'll do.

And what happens when they add more content that you cant kill with just the proc jobs? and it can't be soloed? Are you gonna ask a shell or pick up group to let you get up front and melee? Do you think they will let you? Or are you gonna wish the devs had put some time into something that made you stand out among mages instead of giving you buffs that didn't get you a DD slot?

This ability could be a lot better if it was for party members too, but aura would mean it would never get used most likely.

[Duelle]

But I have to disagree with the whole "Party Invitations" thing, we don't do PT invites anymore because we don't have XP parties. Abyssea stuff is based entirely off procing skills, RDM could have "Cure VII" and WHM would still be picked over RDM due to them having the light procs. And everything after this is either lowman "friend" stuff, or big shell stuff. We really gotta get out of the pre abyssea "6 man XP Invites" mentality. Abysea XP groups now have 2~4 people afking and some lv 40 guy opening chests, alliance leaders /sh for invites for awhile before filling up, their not being picky about who joins. The only real job discrimination happens with abyssea proc's, which is outside the scope of this discussion.

Abyssea may have changed expectations, but our job as a whole is still being judged based on the stuff established by the 6-man party set ups. That's why I've tended to think that if you're going to buff or rebalance RDM, it has to be with the 6-man party in mind, then branch out into what Abyssea and alliances would allow the job to do.

You can't pretend that 6-man party balance doesn't matter when the perception of our job created by those damn parties are what are causing all these outsiders to come into our threads and tell us we don't deserve melee buffs or how melee buffs are a waste of time and how we should be getting back to being their buff b*tches, made worse by those inside our job who most likely rode the Refresh gravy train to 75 and merits before the level cap was raised. I for one am sick of our job being treated the way it is.

[saevel]

Abyssea may have changed expectations, but our job as a whole is still being judged based on the stuff established by the 6-man party set ups. That's why I've tended to think that if you're going to buff or rebalance RDM, it has to be with the 6-man party in mind, then branch out into what Abyssea and alliances would allow the job to do.

You can't pretend that 6-man party balance doesn't matter when the perception of our job created by those damn parties are what are causing all these outsiders to come into our threads and tell us we don't deserve melee buffs or how melee buffs are a waste of time and how we should be getting back to being their buff b*tches, made worse by those inside our job who most likely rode the Refresh gravy train to 75 and merits before the level cap was raised. I for one am sick of our job being treated the way it is.

Except it's no longer relevant. You wont' be sitting in PJ / WG with your flag up with "90RDM LFP Warp O Area O" in your search comment. The closest is the PUG's forming for Abyssea stuff and their just after red / yellow procs. VWNM's removed that as there are so many procs that one BLM can't possibly hit them all. HNM shells are easy, you'll be invited for the exact same thing we've always been invited for, Refresh on the healers. I wasn't lieing when I said I now go RDM/DRK to most non-abyssea shell related events, they want me for stun, refresh II, Slow II, Dia III and Cure IV. And lately Dia III, especially Saboteur Dia III has been getting noticed. Our positions amongst super big HNM fights is assured.

RDM's mantra is this, melee on trash, mage on boss. Now this doesn't discount meleeing on boss, but in a boss fight your primary concern is supporting the alliance and helping out the DD specialists do their thing. Any damage you can do ontop of your support duties is bonus, of course bonus is nice ^^

[Supersun]

Obviously making a spell an AoE vs a Sphere is better, but if you've read any of the job manifesto posts they discuss that the level of risk by running near a mob when casting the spell is intended.

With a sphere spell the added risk of needing to stay near the mob would allow for a more powerful buff because of the additional added risk.

[Septimus]

I agree on the aura / sphere effect would of been nice. I can get with the idea of sharing our buffs with those within range of us.

But I have to disagree with the whole "Party Invitations" thing, we don't do PT invites anymore because we don't have XP parties. Abyssea stuff is based entirely off procing skills, RDM could have "Cure VII" and WHM would still be picked over RDM due to them having the light procs. And everything after this is either lowman "friend" stuff, or big shell stuff. We really gotta get out of the pre abyssea "6 man XP Invites" mentality. Abysea XP groups now have 2~4 people afking and some lv 40 guy opening chests, alliance leaders /sh for invites for awhile before filling up, their not being picky about who joins. The only real job discrimination happens with abyssea proc's, which is outside the scope of this discussion.

The "Spell Slot" scare is not real, at least not server side. Their talking about a limit on the PS2 memory and the fact that every additional ~anything~ takes up precious kilobits of memory. Every JA, Spell, Item, Auto-Translation, Zone and Inventory item must fit inside a very small space for the PS2 client. They've been running out of that space for a long time, they scalped the auto-translate system to make more room for new game stuff but they can't do that much longer.

So SE isn't "wasting spell slots" because there are no spell slots, just PS2 memory. The PC clients wouldn't be effected provided SE branch's the client like their recent survey suggests they'll do.

Abyssea is over. People need to move past the "proc job" mentality because Square has made it clear that Voidwatch is where we are going to be getting items for the foreseeable future. Voidwatch cannot be low manned and every job is a possible proc job. But jobs are going to have to bring more to the table than the hopes that you have a proc.

What can RDM do in Voidwatch that another job can't do better? Do enfeebles land, and if so, is Paralyze II and Slow II that much better than Paralyze and Slow to justify a RDM over another WHM? Is Refresh II so much better than Ballad II and III to justify a RDM over a BRD that can do other songs to buff melee and tanks? Is Temper going to be awesome enough to justify a RDM over another DD?

Like I said, I am not necessarily convinced about the lack of new spell slots, but it is something that my be a possibility because of the PS2. As I said in my previous post, just by reclaiming unused spells there are about 180 data slots available for magic if the current spell list is at the limit. (Technically less than that since that doesn't count for Kaustra, Enbrava, Temper, and other new spells that are not currently named.) But there may be another limit that we do not know about. And yes, it probably would be because of the PS2, and no, removing PS2 support may not solve the problem.

[Seriha]

The problem with simply making Temper an aura is it just possibly changes where the caster RDM would stand. Without perpetuating via some kind of on-strike element from the RDM much like Sambas or TP drain per tic, it's hardly a melee buff if no other tools are offered to help eliminate the near-constant gripes against it.

[Bigboy]

Correction: SCH is the WHM/BLM hybrid. RDM is supposed to be the WHM/BLM/WAR hybrid.

No. You can tell this by the fact that it get NO good WS. NO good Job Abilities. Lackluster armor choices. The list goes on. Please don't tell me that it is supposed to be something it's not. That is like arguing that humans are supposed to fly because we built planes, then jumping off a cliff and flapping your arms expecting it to work. Just because you want it to be true, and the statement doesn't sound blatantly false, doesn't make you right.

And btw, I'm not saying this just out of spite for RDM. Mine is level 90, with an Almace and everything needed to bring a strong melee game. I just know it doesn't stand up compared to say... BLU in anything. I can do most of the same debuffs (and more!) on BLU and DD better on BLU than on RDM. What makes my RDM competitive is using staves and nuking stuff down, while tossing buffs/debuffs/cures.

There is no WAR component to a RDM. You are clearly unfamiliar with the job if you think there is. It begs the question: Are you trolling people? Did you just read this forum and side with every idiot that thinks FF1 RDM has something to do with a FFX1? It's a different game. The class is not the same. They didn't intend it to be melee, and it still isn't. The day I see RDM get vorpal/sanguine/ any red proc, I will reconsider the argument, but never until then.