SE, Temper Activation Rate

[FrankReynolds]

I agree on the aura / sphere effect would of been nice. I can get with the idea of sharing our buffs with those within range of us.

But I have to disagree with the whole "Party Invitations" thing, we don't do PT invites anymore because we don't have XP parties. Abyssea stuff is based entirely off procing skills, RDM could have "Cure VII" and WHM would still be picked over RDM due to them having the light procs. And everything after this is either lowman "friend" stuff, or big shell stuff. We really gotta get out of the pre abyssea "6 man XP Invites" mentality. Abysea XP groups now have 2~4 people afking and some lv 40 guy opening chests, alliance leaders /sh for invites for awhile before filling up, their not being picky about who joins. The only real job discrimination happens with abyssea proc's, which is outside the scope of this discussion.

The "Spell Slot" scare is not real, at least not server side. Their talking about a limit on the PS2 memory and the fact that every additional ~anything~ takes up precious kilobits of memory. Every JA, Spell, Item, Auto-Translation, Zone and Inventory item must fit inside a very small space for the PS2 client. They've been running out of that space for a long time, they scalped the auto-translate system to make more room for new game stuff but they can't do that much longer.

So SE isn't "wasting spell slots" because there are no spell slots, just PS2 memory. The PC clients wouldn't be effected provided SE branch's the client like their recent survey suggests they'll do.

And what happens when they add more content that you cant kill with just the proc jobs? and it can't be soloed? Are you gonna ask a shell or pick up group to let you get up front and melee? Do you think they will let you? Or are you gonna wish the devs had put some time into something that made you stand out among mages instead of giving you buffs that didn't get you a DD slot?

This ability could be a lot better if it was for party members too, but aura would mean it would never get used most likely.

[Duelle]

But I have to disagree with the whole "Party Invitations" thing, we don't do PT invites anymore because we don't have XP parties. Abyssea stuff is based entirely off procing skills, RDM could have "Cure VII" and WHM would still be picked over RDM due to them having the light procs. And everything after this is either lowman "friend" stuff, or big shell stuff. We really gotta get out of the pre abyssea "6 man XP Invites" mentality. Abysea XP groups now have 2~4 people afking and some lv 40 guy opening chests, alliance leaders /sh for invites for awhile before filling up, their not being picky about who joins. The only real job discrimination happens with abyssea proc's, which is outside the scope of this discussion.

Abyssea may have changed expectations, but our job as a whole is still being judged based on the stuff established by the 6-man party set ups. That's why I've tended to think that if you're going to buff or rebalance RDM, it has to be with the 6-man party in mind, then branch out into what Abyssea and alliances would allow the job to do.

You can't pretend that 6-man party balance doesn't matter when the perception of our job created by those damn parties are what are causing all these outsiders to come into our threads and tell us we don't deserve melee buffs or how melee buffs are a waste of time and how we should be getting back to being their buff b*tches, made worse by those inside our job who most likely rode the Refresh gravy train to 75 and merits before the level cap was raised. I for one am sick of our job being treated the way it is.

[saevel]

Abyssea may have changed expectations, but our job as a whole is still being judged based on the stuff established by the 6-man party set ups. That's why I've tended to think that if you're going to buff or rebalance RDM, it has to be with the 6-man party in mind, then branch out into what Abyssea and alliances would allow the job to do.

You can't pretend that 6-man party balance doesn't matter when the perception of our job created by those damn parties are what are causing all these outsiders to come into our threads and tell us we don't deserve melee buffs or how melee buffs are a waste of time and how we should be getting back to being their buff b*tches, made worse by those inside our job who most likely rode the Refresh gravy train to 75 and merits before the level cap was raised. I for one am sick of our job being treated the way it is.

Except it's no longer relevant. You wont' be sitting in PJ / WG with your flag up with "90RDM LFP Warp O Area O" in your search comment. The closest is the PUG's forming for Abyssea stuff and their just after red / yellow procs. VWNM's removed that as there are so many procs that one BLM can't possibly hit them all. HNM shells are easy, you'll be invited for the exact same thing we've always been invited for, Refresh on the healers. I wasn't lieing when I said I now go RDM/DRK to most non-abyssea shell related events, they want me for stun, refresh II, Slow II, Dia III and Cure IV. And lately Dia III, especially Saboteur Dia III has been getting noticed. Our positions amongst super big HNM fights is assured.

RDM's mantra is this, melee on trash, mage on boss. Now this doesn't discount meleeing on boss, but in a boss fight your primary concern is supporting the alliance and helping out the DD specialists do their thing. Any damage you can do ontop of your support duties is bonus, of course bonus is nice ^^

[Septimus]

I agree on the aura / sphere effect would of been nice. I can get with the idea of sharing our buffs with those within range of us.

But I have to disagree with the whole "Party Invitations" thing, we don't do PT invites anymore because we don't have XP parties. Abyssea stuff is based entirely off procing skills, RDM could have "Cure VII" and WHM would still be picked over RDM due to them having the light procs. And everything after this is either lowman "friend" stuff, or big shell stuff. We really gotta get out of the pre abyssea "6 man XP Invites" mentality. Abysea XP groups now have 2~4 people afking and some lv 40 guy opening chests, alliance leaders /sh for invites for awhile before filling up, their not being picky about who joins. The only real job discrimination happens with abyssea proc's, which is outside the scope of this discussion.

The "Spell Slot" scare is not real, at least not server side. Their talking about a limit on the PS2 memory and the fact that every additional ~anything~ takes up precious kilobits of memory. Every JA, Spell, Item, Auto-Translation, Zone and Inventory item must fit inside a very small space for the PS2 client. They've been running out of that space for a long time, they scalped the auto-translate system to make more room for new game stuff but they can't do that much longer.

So SE isn't "wasting spell slots" because there are no spell slots, just PS2 memory. The PC clients wouldn't be effected provided SE branch's the client like their recent survey suggests they'll do.

Abyssea is over. People need to move past the "proc job" mentality because Square has made it clear that Voidwatch is where we are going to be getting items for the foreseeable future. Voidwatch cannot be low manned and every job is a possible proc job. But jobs are going to have to bring more to the table than the hopes that you have a proc.

What can RDM do in Voidwatch that another job can't do better? Do enfeebles land, and if so, is Paralyze II and Slow II that much better than Paralyze and Slow to justify a RDM over another WHM? Is Refresh II so much better than Ballad II and III to justify a RDM over a BRD that can do other songs to buff melee and tanks? Is Temper going to be awesome enough to justify a RDM over another DD?

Like I said, I am not necessarily convinced about the lack of new spell slots, but it is something that my be a possibility because of the PS2. As I said in my previous post, just by reclaiming unused spells there are about 180 data slots available for magic if the current spell list is at the limit. (Technically less than that since that doesn't count for Kaustra, Enbrava, Temper, and other new spells that are not currently named.) But there may be another limit that we do not know about. And yes, it probably would be because of the PS2, and no, removing PS2 support may not solve the problem.

[Swords]

It's been suggested before a JA that copies buffs on the RDM to the party, though it may be over-powered.

I can't really see why it would be considered overpowered, all it really does is reduce our casting load as a whole, seeing as most spells are castable by other jobs and/or have an AoE version of it.

[Supersun]

Obviously making a spell an AoE vs a Sphere is better, but if you've read any of the job manifesto posts they discuss that the level of risk by running near a mob when casting the spell is intended.

With a sphere spell the added risk of needing to stay near the mob would allow for a more powerful buff because of the additional added risk.

[Seriha]

The problem with simply making Temper an aura is it just possibly changes where the caster RDM would stand. Without perpetuating via some kind of on-strike element from the RDM much like Sambas or TP drain per tic, it's hardly a melee buff if no other tools are offered to help eliminate the near-constant gripes against it.

[Shiyo]

Yeah, RDM is literally 0% melee. It gets MAB job trait, it doesn't get attack bonus job trait, it gets fast cast, it doesn't get acc bonus or dual wield or delay reduction or ANYTHING to indicate it's intended to melee. It's a caster with melee abilities equal to that of a WHM or SMN or SCH or BLM, except it uses daggers and swords instead of clubs/staves. No good melee gear, crap weapon skills, crap damage, etc.

[Karbuncle]

Yeah, RDM is literally 0% melee. It gets MAB job trait, it doesn't get attack bonus job trait, it gets fast cast, it doesn't get acc bonus or dual wield or delay reduction or ANYTHING to indicate it's intended to melee. It's a caster with melee abilities equal to that of a WHM or SMN or SCH or BLM, except it uses daggers and swords instead of clubs/staves. No good melee gear, crap weapon skills, crap damage, etc.

I agree with what you're saying, in a way... But claiming RDM gets "no good melee gear" is nothing short of ignorant.

Dusk/+1 gear, Calmacac Trousers, All the DD mantles (Atheling, Foragers, Cerberus, etc). RDM is on a high number of great DD Gear, and can even cap Equip haste with relative ease. It has the gear, But not the tools to make use of the gear. that is the problem.

[FrankReynolds]

On the note about spell limitations... It may just be that they reference the number of possible spells in a way that would require them to re-code many other unrelated areas of the program. They may have initially made it that ways with PS2 in mind, and not be able to change it now due to the work involved. As much as I hope that the new survey is the beginning of the end for PS2 limits, there may still be a lot of PS2 stuff that can't be fixed.

Personally I think that SE should make a new FFXI with all the same mechanics stories, etc. on a updated platform, and then build from there. They might just get theire old player base back.