[Job Adjustmentｓ Manifesto] RDM

[Neisan_Quetz]

What in the fuck does conversation about a job on a MMO have to do with religion, seriously. insert srsbusyness quote of your choice here.

[Greatguardian]

What in the fuck does conversation about a job on a MMO have to do with religion, seriously. insert srsbusyness quote of your choice here.

Not sure if serious. Are you talking about antagonism? As in antagonizing? Being antagonistic? Silly.

[Neisan_Quetz]

It'd be like me jumping onto a Christian forum with the handle AntiChrist666 to babble about how there's only one way to be a good Christian.

Is what I'm referring to.

[Seriha]

You seriously can't not be realizing it's antagonistic. The whole crux of your SporkWasher "argument" relies on creating a situation that doesn't exist just so you can try to justify your view on RDM. If you want to take a crap all over the Final Fantasy franchise and the things about it that draw people, we can't really stop you. Just don't be surprised if people don't agree and call you out on your verbal diarrhea. I get the vibe Saev's grab at pointing out "serious" RDMs hinges more on maintaining that faith while at the same time striving to make a versatile job enjoyable for anyone no matter how they opt to play it at any given day, especially with others. Not the whole "Good RDMs do this!" and "Bad RDMs do that!" back and forth your ilk instigates.

Is what I'm referring to.

Not so much about Christians or MMOs as it is deliberately making yourself an eyesore just to get a rise out of people.

[Neisan_Quetz]

No, I'm sorry, it isn't close to the same thing, you are not that special, nor is your viewpoint.

And your melee still doesn't matter on stronger NMs.

[Greatguardian]

I'm sorry that I enjoy Final Fantasy XI and Red Mage for what they are and not what their names represent?

[SpankWustler]

There's a shock. Meme and Meme Generator being all buddy buddy.

Prior to Composure, you could've been in a situation where you'd need to haste your whole party. 6 people, 3 minutes per, 20 times an hour for 120 casts with variable amounts of Refresh wiggled in between. Figure each cast sucks up 4-5 seconds in actual casting and global cooldown with the spell itself hovering between 13-15s recast depending on gear. My usual routine was Haste, two spells, Haste again, two spells, repeat. If you're expected to be your group's primary healer, and this happens, Abyssea or not, cycle times become a risk for the party as HP levels can drop dangerously low while you're mid-cast. It's not uncommon for cycles to get delayed or people forgotten about when you're presented with a sudden gear shift that leaves you dumping 2-3 Cure IVs on a person and possible status cures on top, or someone dies because you literally can't react. Sure, you're keeping nice and busy, maybe even reveling in the challenge, but if you've never been in a situation where someone doesn't get pissy when their buffs are down for more than 5s or grumble about how they could do a better job, you need to leave the mog house more.

This gets even more fun when you start fighting mobs with dispels, TP moves, or auras that overwrite buffs. It's SE's way of saying, "You thought you were done cycling? Think again! Muwahaha!" Can't forget those that love to run or get knocked out of your casting range, too. And simply because of gear potential, RDM will remain the preferred haste bitch over WHM since it leaves the WHM with more MP and time to focus on other things. Just because you might have no problem with that doesn't mean it isn't a problem, nor does it mean those who do have a problem with it are looking at it like another major tsunami just hit Japan. Cycles just aren't fun, and last I checked, this is a game and not an assembly line.

I can has chees...er...I'm actually totally fine with what you just said. If all complaints about buff cycles were phrased like this rather than wrapped in a bunch of stuff about job lore, I think people would be more sympathetic. I won't argue what's fun and un-fun for another person and I hope it's not so un-fun for you now that it's possible to make the buffs last much longer.

Also, I just thought the name was funny. My first idea for an Official Forums screen-name was "The Meat Toilet", so in retrospect, I think I made the right call. Sorry if it hurt your feelers.

[Seriha]

.I'm actually totally fine with what you just said. If all complaints about buff cycles were phrased like this rather than wrapped in a bunch of stuff about job lore, I think people would be more sympathetic.

It's not a new argument by an means, though. I know I've been personally clamoring for the alleviation of cycles for a good number of years prior to these boards' inception, and while we've received it to some degree, I'll just say I'm not happy it's largely reliant on gear that not every RDM will have or could enjoy during the leveling process to set the foundation for eventual endgame play.

The lore aspect might be more of a convenience gimmick, but it's not as if there haven't been people pointing out the statistical shortcomings, either for or against. I don't believe "magic swordsman" and "demi-god buffer" are mutually exclusive entities and feel they both could work if only SE would try. Even as a pure caster, though, SE hasn't been trying too hard with RDM in creating a unique entity. Whether or not we actually achieve that come 99 remains to be seen, but the immediate known future of a few Gain spells and Thunder IV does not paint a pretty picture. And if their pending merit adjustments somehow makes all spells/JAs scroll or level learned, things would turn a bit for the better. I'll believe it when it happens, though, if it ever does.

[SpankWustler]

You seriously can't not be realizing it's antagonistic. The whole crux of your SporkWasher "argument" relies on creating a situation that doesn't exist just so you can try to justify your view on RDM. If you want to take a crap all over the Final Fantasy franchise and the things about it that draw people, we can't really stop you. Just don't be surprised if people don't agree and call you out on your verbal diarrhea.

I just don't get the emotional attachment to a certain job doing a certain thing. Especially when it's never been, throughout the whole life of FFXI, very good at that thing. Five games preceding XI didn't even have playable Red Mages in them, even the ones that more or less had jobs, and neither did Tactics. Final Fantasy XI was their first move back to the job system in a while, so is it really that shocking that some jobs changed?

FFXI itself has existed for a long time, and seen many changes of the staff working on it, so the vision for the job even within this game has probably changed a few times. The current vision seems more concrete than previous ones, as well as being something that will work well in the context of FFXI, so I'm cool with it.

I'm trying hard not to make a snide comment because you seem earnestly worked up, so I'll just say, I truly do not understand the source of your discontent.

Edit:

Even as a pure caster, though, SE hasn't been trying too hard with RDM in creating a unique entity. Whether or not we actually achieve that come 99 remains to be seen, but the immediate known future of a few Gain spells and Thunder IV does not paint a pretty picture. And if their pending merit adjustments somehow makes all spells/JAs scroll or level learned, things would turn a bit for the better. I'll believe it when it happens, though, if it ever does.

Given some of the recent announcements, I choose to be optimistic. Red Mage stands to remain functional in a way some jobs may not, but still, I can definitely sympathize with people who want something new to do. White Mage has evolved a great deal over the course of FFXI, and that's definitely kept the job much more fun for me over the years.

[Seriha]

I'm trying hard not to make a snide comment because you seem earnestly worked up, so I'll just say, I truly do not understand the source of your discontent.

Many years of ego clashing. I might not resort to the Tybud level of profanity requiring deliberate moderation intervention, but if people on one side can get pissed, just don't be surprised if some on the other have. I'd like to think I'm open to good arguments of opposition, but when the best that's produced is the RDM becoming a risk/liability when we're simultaneously trying to propose ideas to counter those points, it gets tiresome. It all boils down to numbers, and were the situation reversed with RDM's melee being awesome and their magic being utterly craptastic, I doubt my thoughts on theme sanity would waver very much without knowing more specifics on the situation. Hell, that situation pretty much exists with DRK, and I am for SE giving their magic side attention to help steer them from being the WAR with Stun others seem to be content with. Whether or not they'll do a good job on that, though, I dunno. I've kept my head out of there because one "war front" is enough.