[Job Adjustmentｓ Manifesto] RDM

[Supersun]

If SE ever bumps Rdm's Dark skill up from whatever abyss it currently is to something respectable that can actually make the rest of the spells gained from /drk beside stun land able I would be going Rdm/Drk a LOT more.

[Duelle]

Problem with "haste cycles" and "refresh cycles" is that the spells casting animation is to damn long and the recasts are punishingly long. It simply takes up too much time to cycles those spells on a bunch of people, further complicating the process is that it required you to do them over and over and over and over again until your head explodes or you get so burnt out that you refuse to play the job. SE took a big step by releasing a bunch of +duration gear, but it's only scratching the surface of the problem and requires too much gear for your average player. ~ALL~ buffs should be multi-targetable (AOE) no questions asked, period end of story, no arguments accepted. Any other system and you turned the RDM into a buff-bot which is something every serious (didn't level it to get into a HNM shell) RDM hates.

The problem is that SE's design for RDM has been trailing along that line of buffbot since the days of TAU. The fact the melee camp and the haters of the cycles were stifled by an overly zealous bunch of people who saw RDM as easy street leveling and merits did nothing to help our cause. I even remember during an interview or QA around the time TAU was announced, I think it was Matsui who said "RDM would still have plenty of casting to do". I knew it translated to keeping the cycles intact to create busy work for us, and could do little to stop it since at the time SE's developers did not have much of a communication venue with the players.

On a concept level, buffing should have nothing to do with RDM, firstly because the job inherently has access to "weaker" magic than WHM and BLM due to being versatile in magic and the ways of the sword. Secondly, weaker magic means the aspects of the job need to combine in some way to make up for what the job lacks compared to everyone else.

Granted, buffing is odd in this game seeing that it is limited to only a few classes. THAT in itself is the source of a slew of problems for not only our class, but having an effect on party dynamics. The enfeebling niche also opened another can of worms, which like a lot of other things did nothing to help our cause.

[Economizer]

Problem with "haste cycles" and "refresh cycles" is that the spells casting animation is to damn long and the recasts are punishingly long.

If the recast of Haste was really short, I don't think anyone capable of casting the spell would be talking about this. You have to wear a lot of Haste or Fast Cast gear to make Haste cycling remotely bearable.

In fact you can pretty much divide the serious RDM's from the non-serious ones

I think that judging people based on how serious you think they are is a bad model for how to play the game or talk to people about the game. I have enough issues with people on the forums who think stupid stuff like "their job should have all the procs without having to sacrifice their favorite subjob" or "their job should have no down sides, but other jobs should keep theirs" or "lol, balance is for other classes" without having to deal with things like "who is a good player" or "who is actually serious about job x".

[cidbahamut]

In fact you can pretty much divide the serious RDM's from the non-serious ones by the tone of their arguments. The serious ones want changes made to get RDM away from the haste / refresh / cure robot job it's become, they want more enfeebles more enhancements and more melee capability, yes all three. The ones just using it to get gear want as little changed as possible other then to add Cure V, they use the job exclusively to get gear for their other jobs, the jobs they like, and any positive changes to RDM could possible jeopardize their positions. I view them no better as those naked BRD's whoring merits.

Sweeping generalizations are bad bro. You don't have to be a melee enthusiast to be serious about the job.

[Greatguardian]

Sweeping generalizations are bad bro. You don't have to be a melee enthusiast to be serious about the job.

^.

I could care less about Haste Cycles because, frankly, they don't bother me or inhibit my other spellcasting in the slightest. This is especially true with the 2x duration the AF3 set offers. People burn out on jobs because they get bored. There is nothing boring about Red Mage if you're serious and/or half decent about/at it.

This entire line of discussion is boring because it panders to the lowest common denominator. Good Red Mages don't need to be "forced" or "obligated" to Haste/Refresh everyone, nor does it inhibit them in the slightest. You can cast other spells in between Hastes while the recast is down, you know.

[SpankWustler]

This entire line of discussion is boring because it panders to the lowest common denominator. Good Red Mages don't need to be "forced" or "obligated" to Haste/Refresh everyone, nor does it inhibit them in the slightest. You can cast other spells in between Hastes while the recast is down, you know.

Dude, this is a job adjustment thread. Whatever expectations you have will never be met.

I'm just glad people have stopped running around naked, bodies painted with whatever they could find in the pantry, screaming "We're magic swordsmen!" over and over.

Now, folks are dressed up for a discussion over a meal...and...rubbing the pot roast on their cummerbunds and screaming "We're magic swordsmen!" every ten minutes or so.

I've lowered my standards to the point that anything other than "I want to do something this job doesn't do and never will." or "I want to do this job naked. Totally naked. Forever." is a valid point of discussion.

[Greatguardian]

I've lowered my standards to the point that anything other than "I want to do something this job doesn't do and never will." or "I want to do this job naked. Totally naked. Forever." is a valid point of discussion.

I don't mind points of discussion revolving around those that are less-than-awesomely geared, or experienced. I don't mind the assumption that not all Red Mages are willing to obtain full AF3+2 and other gear in a timely fashion. But holy crap, griping about Haste cycles reeks of nothing but lazy, with or without the awesome AF3+2 set bonus that makes it even easier.

[SpankWustler]

There's actually a grain of discussion in all the chaff about job concepts and people being "serious" this time. Huzzah for improvement!

How would you guys who vehemently hate casting Haste feel about the spell if it had the same casting time as Cure III and a ten second base recast?

[Neisan_Quetz]

Well assuming it did have Cure 3's casting time it'd only lop off .5 seconds base casting time from Haste's, which is impossible for Rdm anyway. I really don't see how you're taking a long time to cast Haste... cutting the recast done would be nice, yes, but I'm expecting either cast or recast will be cut with the new JA we should be getting. Probably not worth using on haste depending on recast on the JA but whatevs.

All I saw when I read 'serious Rdms want all buffs' is everything I've read anywhere else saying 'I want my job to be good in nearly every situation'. Suck it up it ain't happening.

[Seriha]

There's a shock. Meme and Meme Generator being all buddy buddy.

Prior to Composure, you could've been in a situation where you'd need to haste your whole party. 6 people, 3 minutes per, 20 times an hour for 120 casts with variable amounts of Refresh wiggled in between. Figure each cast sucks up 4-5 seconds in actual casting and global cooldown with the spell itself hovering between 13-15s recast depending on gear. My usual routine was Haste, two spells, Haste again, two spells, repeat. If you're expected to be your group's primary healer, and this happens, Abyssea or not, cycle times become a risk for the party as HP levels can drop dangerously low while you're mid-cast. It's not uncommon for cycles to get delayed or people forgotten about when you're presented with a sudden gear shift that leaves you dumping 2-3 Cure IVs on a person and possible status cures on top, or someone dies because you literally can't react. Sure, you're keeping nice and busy, maybe even reveling in the challenge, but if you've never been in a situation where someone doesn't get pissy when their buffs are down for more than 5s or grumble about how they could do a better job, you need to leave the mog house more.

This gets even more fun when you start fighting mobs with dispels, TP moves, or auras that overwrite buffs. It's SE's way of saying, "You thought you were done cycling? Think again! Muwahaha!" Can't forget those that love to run or get knocked out of your casting range, too. And simply because of gear potential, RDM will remain the preferred haste bitch over WHM since it leaves the WHM with more MP and time to focus on other things. Just because you might have no problem with that doesn't mean it isn't a problem, nor does it mean those who do have a problem with it are looking at it like another major tsunami just hit Japan. Cycles just aren't fun, and last I checked, this is a game and not an assembly line.