Thank You SE and Good-bye

[Korpg]

My main complaint has always been over the JP-only CC option discrimination--if you've actually been reading my posts, you should know that. That wall of text was a recap of the issues that have been presented in the threads--figured it was better to recap all of them in one post for that seemingly uninformed poster, rather than trying to redirect him/her to a mass of threads.

No matter how anyone tries to spin this situation, it always comes back to some very simple facts:

Thay have taken away an option that for many was simple and reliable, it could be have been fairly easy to implement, and extended it for just one region, and have mistakenly tried to say the choice was done to improve security. They have the technology, they have the knowhow--essentially, they have the means to do it, but are simply choosing not to do it.

Well, I have read your posts, you had several complaints. JP-only payment, having to have extra crysta each month, having to pay to a third party instead of direct payment, having to use Click and Buy instead of Paypal (Paypal has 6 times more "fraud" than Click and Buy, just in case you didn't know, even though neither company actually commits the fraud, but you wouldn't want to see that, would you?), all of that just to name a few.

Yes, they have taken away a simple method and converted it into a simple method. For security reasons too. I guess you have forgotten all of those billing issues they have been having for the past year or so, I guess we have finally found out why people were having those billing issues. Also, remember PSN? I guess you forgotten that also. But whatever. Just keep raising your pitchforks at SE, nothing is going to change now.

[Korpg]

That has nothing to do with security---that is a matter of cost management.

A server is open to the same threat of attack regardless of where it is physically located. The level of security is the same regardless of whose information is saved on it--it can be attacked just as easily from someone inside JP as any other region. Someone living in Japan has their information open to the same threats as someone living in Europe. The ONLY way it could be bound to a security issue is because it would cost more to implement stronger security to meet banking regulations enforced in another region. That makes it a COST issue, NOT a SECURITY issue--as in, they didn't want to pay for updated VPN cards for their firewalls or something.

So, SE can't try to save a little money to keep this game going now? They have to continue using the same expensive method to satisfy a select complainers now, is that what you are saying?

But not only have they found a solution that saves them a little money, but increased security at the same time. Is that really all that bad, bad enough to complain for weeks on end because you aren't getting your way?

[RAIST]

Well, I have read your posts, you had several complaints. JP-only payment, having to have extra crysta each month, having to pay to a third party instead of direct payment, having to use Click and Buy instead of Paypal (Paypal has 6 times more "fraud" than Click and Buy, just in case you didn't know, even though neither company actually commits the fraud, but you wouldn't want to see that, would you?), all of that just to name a few.

Yes, they have taken away a simple method and converted it into a simple method. For security reasons too. I guess you have forgotten all of those billing issues they have been having for the past year or so, I guess we have finally found out why people were having those billing issues. Also, remember PSN? I guess you forgotten that also. But whatever. Just keep raising your pitchforks at SE, nothing is going to change now.

I debate issues as they appear in the thread... but if you had been paying attention, I continually come back to the issue of them taking away the directpay CC option. Guess you are just glossing over posts and selectively reading or something.. who knows.

If something appears to be deceptive, people will question it. You may see some of the words used to describe them as a bit strong, but it is a common mistake many make. Many use words like "fraud" without knowing truly what it implies. So... let's look at the Webster's definition of "Fraud":

a : deceit, trickery; specifically : intentional perversion of truth in order to induce another to part with something of value or to surrender a legal right b : an act of deceiving or misrepresenting : trick

"things that make you go..... hmmmmm...."

So, SE can't try to save a little money to keep this game going now? They have to continue using the same expensive method to satisfy a select complainers now, is that what you are saying?

But not only have they found a solution that saves them a little money, but increased security at the same time. Is that really all that bad, bad enough to complain for weeks on end because you aren't getting your way?

You've completely missed an important fact (that I brought up a few posts ago): They still are paying to maintain the same agreements with the EU/NA based CC processors to use them at their online merchandise site. For example, all they are doing is shuffling the cost per transaction from a NA group to a UK group. That fee is considerably less then $1 per transaction: common fees run .21-.35 a pop, plus 2%-3%--depending on the discount rates. Trust me, with the level of activity they were running, they were getting a discounted rate to run subscriptions through (which they will now loose with those contracts by not running subs through them.)

This decision hasn't increased their security at all. All it may have done is shuffled their LIABILITY off to a third party. They still have the same security issues for their JP players. Again...security in this scope is a technology issue--unless they went out and upgraded hardware/software to raise their security, nothing has changed. If they raised that security level for the JP players--it would have also applied to the NA/EU players. 3-DES, SHA-1,. SHA-2, Keyed hashes---all those encryption standards are universal...they don't care where the data originates, the function is the same regardless of the start or end-point and what they encapsulate--they function the same regardless.

Again...PSN was lacking in security and they found out just how liable they were oafter they got hacked. Moving the data from one server to another does nothing to improve your security. You can still get hacked just as easily as before--you just are liable to fewer people if that server gets hacked and that data is moved elsewhere, but ethen...they can just hack the other server and you are again just as liable as before. All they are doing by moving it to C&B or PayPal is reducing their LIABILITY in the event they get hacked, not their SECURITY. It does nothing to prevent them from getting attacked in the first place.

Billing issues can also abound just as easily with C&B as they can with SE. No system is perfect by any means. We always put a payment in pending status until we get confirmation either through the clearing house or by manually entering the authent. codee and clearing the pending flag through. It might even be a bigger issue as data must flow to off-site handlers more than ever now. SE can flag you for needing to be billed, but for various reasons it may not get confirmation from other parties that the bill has been paid. Depending on how they are programatically handling the exceptions, you can still just as easily get double-billed in error from any company, and have to call them on it to get it corrected. You can also have customers who have a perfect record with a billing partner. Myself, I never had any problems with the Visa I've used since 2005, and it has been bought out and re-issued 4 or 5 times since then. I'd update the info, and never had any problems with it.

Again, it's not a question of people getting their way--it's about the inequallity. SE has forever proclaimed to be all concerned about balancing things across all regions and platforms, and then they pull a boneheaded stunt like this that dramatically tips the scale and counters those previous assertions. Which again brings me to the closing point of a previous post:

Thay have taken away an option that for many was simple and reliable, it could be have been fairly easy to implement, and extended it for just one region, and have mistakenly tried to say the choice was done to improve security. They have the technology, they have the knowhow--essentially, they have the means to do it, but are simply choosing not to do it.

[Korpg]

You know what RAIST, you are going to continue with your tinfoil hat conspiracies forever, aren't you?

I mean, do you really think that this whole new system is just a fraud waiting to happen, that SE and Click and Buy both came up with just to take your money away from you?

[RAIST]

You know what RAIST, you are going to continue with your tinfoil hat conspiracies forever, aren't you?

I mean, do you really think that this whole new system is just a fraud waiting to happen, that SE and Click and Buy both came up with just to take your money away from you?

huh... just where did you come up with that? YOU are the one spouting conspiracy. I'm talking facts here.

Edit:
And I never said it was a "whole new system is just a fraud waiting to happen". Go back and read it again. I said no billing system is perfect....depending how they are programatically handling exceptions, any one can be open to double billing. If you aren't set up to handle delayed/stalled/dropped communications to an off-site service, or aren't handled to prevent the impatient double-submit customer, and various other potential exceptions--you can have billing errors.

[Revanchist]

Korpg, while I admit you do have some valid points, you are completely overlooking the fact that A: Crysta isn't legally available/accepted as viable payment options in some countries and B: the gamer cards (for use via PlaySpan) aren't available in every country either.

So for gamers in those countries, come end of August, will be cut off from FFXI. Is it too much to ask for SE to extend the same courtesy they've given to their JP playerbase to the rest of the world? I'm not saying have Direct payment as the main method of payment, but like the JP's, have it alongside the Crysta/gamer card payment options.

Also, your condescending comments towards others here is getting old real quick. Saying that you'll 'see them in September' etc, is not just condescending, but oblivious to the position some gamers are in due to this situation SE is forcing upon us as a whole.

Now while some posters may be letting their emotions get the better of them in their posts, and I admit I was at first, what does it matter to you? You already have your payment sorted out, so why bother to troll the forum, being rude and condescending to others? Serves no purpose, except just to fan the flames against some who may have legitimate problems with this payment option.

I hate to say that it seems (to me at least) that you seem to enjoy baiting and attacking others for voicing their opinions/views of this situation. Granted yes, you do have every right to do so... but as it's not directly affecting you, why are you wasting your time doing so?

Is it so hard to understand that while some have no problems with this enforced payment option, there are a number who DO have problems with it? Aren't they allowed to voice some criticism against this?

[Whiskey]

I'll never understand why SE does things like this that break the mold after 10 years of consistency (and in such negative ways). It's like they enjoy upsetting players, making things difficult, and most of all causing players to quit.

[Korpg]

Korpg, while I admit you do have some valid points, you are completely overlooking the fact that A: Crysta isn't legally available/accepted as viable payment options in some countries and B: the gamer cards (for use via PlaySpan) aren't available in every country either.

So for gamers in those countries, come end of August, will be cut off from FFXI. Is it too much to ask for SE to extend the same courtesy they've given to their JP playerbase to the rest of the world? I'm not saying have Direct payment as the main method of payment, but like the JP's, have it alongside the Crysta/gamer card payment options.

Also, your condescending comments towards others here is getting old real quick. Saying that you'll 'see them in September' etc, is not just condescending, but oblivious to the position some gamers are in due to this situation SE is forcing upon us as a whole.

Now while some posters may be letting their emotions get the better of them in their posts, and I admit I was at first, what does it matter to you? You already have your payment sorted out, so why bother to troll the forum, being rude and condescending to others? Serves no purpose, except just to fan the flames against some who may have legitimate problems with this payment option.

I hate to say that it seems (to me at least) that you seem to enjoy baiting and attacking others for voicing their opinions/views of this situation. Granted yes, you do have every right to do so... but as it's not directly affecting you, why are you wasting your time doing so?

Is it so hard to understand that while some have no problems with this enforced payment option, there are a number who DO have problems with it? Aren't they allowed to voice some criticism against this?

Again, international debt card. It doesn't matter which country you are in, having one of those ensures continuing to play this game.

How do I know this, you ask? Because, it all depends on the bank location, not where you actually live. If the bank of an international bank card is in the UK, or US, or JP, then you don't have to worry about being the .001% of the people who live in both crysta-banned and CNP-banned countries. Yes, it is another hurdle you have to jump thru, but if you are serious about playing this game, it is a small hurdle you have to jump thru once.

You need a website for the international bank card? Here is a website I recommend, although you might have to contact them personally depending on location. Either way, problem solved.

[Alhanelem]

I have followed all the instructions ect but can't pay. I tried contacting customer service and got a run around.

What do you mean "got a run around?" They don't "runaround" people. tell me what you said and what response you got, then I can judge for myself.

We can't help you if you don't specifically say why you can't pay and what you've tried to do, your communications with support including exactly what you said and what they said.

What payment are you attempting to use? What's the error you get? We need information.It's avialable in japan because they're a japanese company and it ocsts them less and everoyne uses 3D secure. it costs them more to accept international payments directly. It's not a simple matter of courtesy.

[RAIST]

prepaid debit cards are still kinda the same method as pre-charging a crysta account--ie, it's not fully automated, also, there is still this:

Global - Offered by non-U.S. banks, the International Debit Cards can be issued to residents of most countries in the world.

*note, that is THEIR underlining, not mine.

You also need to look closely at the terms of use for them too. Most all US based prepaid cards have a monthly fee--many are really cheap $3 or less, but it is still a fee you incur for using them. Interesting that that site doesn't provide a link to any of those details that you can simply pull up. Closest I could get was from a DEC 2010 PDF where they mention:
http://globalebanking.com/Intl_Payment_Architecture.pdf

• Reasonable usage & maintenance fees

It too may be next to nothing for a monthly fee, or it may only have fees incurred when using an ATM or something--hard to say without the details readily available on that site, so it's hard to properly evaluate them. You have to contact them directly to get the details:

Since we have several different International Prepaid Debit Card programs, please contact us to discuss your requirements (geographical regions, customer types, applications, etc.) We can then provide you more exact details of a card program that would be of the best fit to you.

In other words...results may vary based on where you live--which is essentially the problem we are now facing with SE's new payment scheme.