Job Adjustments manifesto Discussion

[Septimus]

Here is a crazy thought if the Devs want DRKs to cast elemental magic. Have DRKs get elemental spells at the same level as RDMs, this would give DRK up to Blizzard IV now and Thunder IV at 92.

Of course DRKs would still rarely cast elemental magic because you also need gear and an MP pool for that sort of thing; but at least they would have something to cast if they wanted to do that sort of thing.

[Siiri]

Here is a crazy thought if the Devs want DRKs to cast elemental magic. Have DRKs get elemental spells at the same level as RDMs, this would give DRK up to Blizzard IV now and Thunder IV at 92.

Of course DRKs would still rarely cast elemental magic because you also need gear and an MP pool for that sort of thing; but at least they would have something to cast if they wanted to do that sort of thing.

That is what kills me about the whole magic obsession, does SE not realize DRKs do not have the mp pool to cast a lot of spells. My DRK would have the mp pool to cast 2 tier 4s, and this is with mp merits. Also Occult Acumen should have been a straight 20 tp/spell, not this 2 tp garbage they saddled DRKS with. I don't understand why SE repeatedly overpowers SAM and WAR yet is so afraid of jobs like DRK and THF.

[Frost]

Your argument is a Red Herring. Just because I leveled Sam and/or War doesn't mean I necessarily bias towards them. I play Thief, Blu, and Nin more often, due to their usefulness in todays current events, doesn't mean I don't like my other jobs, or that I even like Nin, Thief or War. And just because I used them for comparison, doesn't imply I like them less either.

What I do like is Variety...

And it looks like SE is really trying to sculpt Dark Knight away from the homogeneous blob of "Melee DD"; and I respect that. I look forward to whatever they are adding to the job, because frankly I enjoy it as is, and new dynamics to the job are always interesting, and welcome.

I just read these posts, and the frequency and amplitude of the rage they present, laced with a heavy dose of defeatist rhetoric is nauseating... In the same breath a Drk screams "If only, just make Last Resort last as long as Berserk" the cry that it's not enough. I'm sorry, I just don't see the job as weakly as other Darks do. I always welcome a skilled Drk into my events, and I personally find no shortage of invites for my Drk either.

It's just a different playstyle. If you're not amused with it, try another job.

[Seha]

I don't play Drk and I don't even like the job.
But its update have been clearly pathetic lately. And it's not going any better.
The atk+ with self-plague looks so stupid, and lol elemental ws <_<
And as many have said before, it's useless to nuke without even a tier of mab(and I doubt drks like to sub rdm for that, I think they like sam much more).

[Frost]

[...] I don't understand why SE repeatedly overpowers SAM and WAR yet is so afraid of jobs like DRK and THF.

Wut?

Thief is awesome. Idk why you could think it to be underpowered or neglected by SE at all in SE's history.

-Gave them a 20% - 33% increase in the base damage of daggers.
-Gave Trick Attack forced Crit.
- TH III
- Treassur Hunter "Debuff" that you can see level up.
- Despoil (I know... odd, but it's still SOMETHING)
- Accomplice, and when that wasn't enough: Collaborator.
- MASSIVE evasion, then MORE evasion.
- Easily Capped Haste on gear.
- Conspirator.
- Pretty solid, decent Merit abilities.
- Guaranteed party inclusion.
- 5-Hit Crit Weaponskill Based on Dex...(Cont...)
- - An Atma in the new content that is 50 Dex, 30% Crit Rate, & 30% Crit Damage that's for a job that's two main abilities, one Dex based, are Crits and a Weaponskill that's a 5-Hit Crit Weaponskill one that's heavily based on Dex....

There's more I'm sure, but that's just a few moments thinking about it.
As a thief I've been able to duo anythign with a Whm that a Mnk+Whm combo has been able to do, and have TH; as an added bonus, I've been able to duo exponentially more outside of Abyssea, and through the years.

Thief is not a weak job... And it's Far from neglected, as you've implied.

[Seha]

Oh Frost...you're so out of this world...

[Siiri]

Wut?

Thief is awesome. Idk why you could think it to be underpowered or neglected by SE at all in SE's history.

There's more I'm sure, but that's just a few moments thinking about it.
As a thief I've been able to duo anythign with a Whm that a Mnk+Whm combo has been able to do, and have TH; as an added bonus, I've been able to duo exponentially more outside of Abyssea, and through the years.

Thief is not a weak job... And it's Far from neglected, as you've implied.

I was mostly referring to the SE update note in the forums that putting steal and aura steal on the same timer would be overpowered, when they told the SAMs that all their job abilities would be on seperate timers. That seems really off to me. Sorry I was unclear. DRK is just a mess of bad updates though. Absorb-tp was nerfed and then unnerfed by Bale Gauntlets +2, what other job had an ability nerfed just to get it back with AF+3? Crazy! What are they so afraid of?

[Frost]

I was mostly referring to the SE update note in the forums that putting steal and aura steal on the same timer would be overpowered, when they told the SAMs that all their job abilities would be on seperate timers. That seems really off to me. Sorry I was unclear. DRK is just a mess of bad updates though. Absorb-tp was nerfed and then unnerfed by Bale Gauntlets +2, what other job had an ability nerfed just to get it back with AF+3? Crazy! What are they so afraid of?

Fair Enough. Just looked like a head scratcher at first glance lol.

Funny you shoudl mention the Ab-TP thing though. Got in an agrument about "How useless Ab-TP is, because you could get more TP from swinging your weapon." While true, it also niglects the other role of Ab-TP... Removing TP from the monster... (Only stating that to illustrate point: People dont' see the whole picture.)

I guess what I am saying, in a more non-combative way, is that, to me dark is already powerful. The updates may be a little wierd, like putting a spoiler on a minivan... But when you got something that already works for the most part, and it has a theme, and that theme has been ignored in lieu of design simplicity; why not go back to fortify that theme... Would it kill the people to respect that? Drk is a Warrior that uses Dark Magic, and the magic aspect has been ignored by the player base. They're trying to make that defining aspect of the job stronger, more relevant, while retaining the already powerful job that, short of a crit weaponskill that's only really relevant in one arena, is still extremely viable.

[Siiri]

Fair Enough. Just looked like a head scratcher at first glance lol.

Funny you shoudl mention the Ab-TP thing though. Got in an agrument about "How useless Ab-TP is, because you could get more TP from swinging your weapon." While true, it also niglects the other role of Ab-TP... Removing TP from the monster... (Only stating that to illustrate point: People dont' see the whole picture.)

I guess what I am saying, in a more non-combative way, is that, to me dark is already powerful. The updates may be a little wierd, like putting a spoiler on a minivan... But when you got something at already works for the most part, and it has a theme, and that theme has been ignored in lieu of design simplicity. They seem to be going back to fortify that theme... Would it kill the people to respect that? Drk is a Warrior that uses Dark Magic, and the magic aspect has been ignored by the player base. They're trying to make that defining aspect of the job stronger, more relevant, while retaining the already powerful job, that short of a crit weaponskill that's only really relevant in one arena, is still extremely viable, potent?

Absorb-tp is awesome, we have a great Drk who even goes to abyssea a lot on drk and can absorb 80 tp often off +2 mobs. I don't disagree with improving the magic side per se, they just always go about it so weirdly. Adding additional absorb spells, removing the decay off them, cutting casting time and recast on Dread Spikes and Absorb spells, cutting recast on Drains, adding another Stun (Blue Mage has 3 i believe?) maybe adding new spells that are mentioned repeatedly in the Drk forums are all ways to improve the magic side. Occult acumen? Not so much. Improve elemental weaponskills? They do like 450 damage for infernal scythe and 650 maybe for Herculean, exactly how much are they going to improve them? Triple, quadruple? Anything less what would be the point? That is my issues.

[Frost]

Absorb-tp is awesome, we have a great Drk who even goes to abyssea a lot on drk and can absorb 80 tp often off +2 mobs. I don't disagree with improving the magic side per se, they just always go about it so weirdly. Adding additional absorb spells, removing the decay off them, cutting casting time and recast on Dread Spikes and Absorb spells, cutting recast on Drains, adding another Stun (Blue Mage has 3 i believe?) maybe adding new spells that are mentioned repeatedly in the Drk forums are all ways to improve the magic side. Occult acumen? Not so much. Improve elemental weaponskills? They do like 450 damage for infernal scythe and 650 maybe for Herculean, exactly how much are they going to improve them? Triple, quadruple? Anything less what would be the point? That is my issues.

The Ab-X Spells will come in time, they need to be spread out. We usually get a few each update, so I got no doubt we will get more. The obvious ones probably being Absorb Attack, maybe Absorb Speed, but whatever, we got 9 more levels to go and about 5 more stats we could tap. It's almost guaranteed we'll get at least 6 more spells.

On that note, I bet a dozen donuts that "The Merit Rework" they keep hinting at includes getting rid of Bio III on Rdm and replacing it with something different, or more potent (Bio IV?) and letting Blms and Drks have Bio III. I assume this because I don't think SE actually intended the content to go past 75; there's evidence of that all over the place, and even more evidence they're gearing up to do a cleanup of sorts. Another example would be Protectra/Shellra VI. It would be really stupid to have Protectra/Shellra V merited and have a scroll for VI, right? And it's pretty safe to assume they will add at least Protect/Shell VI at some point...

To your other comment:
IN ABYSSEA... I actually am surprised at how well Infernal does, and it doesn't take much to bump up its damage. If you're using regular WS gear, then yeah, it will do crap damage...

Outside I can't really speak for it, considering Liberator/Guillotine do fine.

In short, people are just being too impatient and short sighted. Granted, the "old SE" wasn't the best at making sense... But the current crew seems to 'get it' to an extent. Now it's our turn. Have a little faith.