Job Adjustments manifesto Discussion

[Yugl]

That would only be useful with MV merits, and even then I'd just rather let it run its normal duration than risk having the duration nerfed.

The MV trick only worked with merits. Given SE's concerns, I figure it's either duration nerf or just not landing entirely and I would prefer the former.

Well, you had to get the best possible gear, and they would be just as powerful as moderate geared BLMs at the time. But they were saying at the time that MP usage per damage was better than overall damage, which they had a point (until a BLM comes there and goes /SCH, but at that time that was considered suicide).

Even with the best possible gear SCH wouldn't be close to BLM (No Morrigans, MAB trait 1 only, no merits for potency, less elemental magic skill, and no witch sash). And you realize you just made an argument for BLM by saying the *best* geared SCH would only match moderately geared BLM right? And by moderately geared, you're really talking about gimp BLMs.

As for MP conservation, I've stated repeatedly that SCH did have superiority, but that for most content, that was irrelevant since you most content required stun/AoE/timeframe nukes.

[Raksha]

The MV trick only worked with merits. Given SE's concerns, I figure it's either duration nerf or just not landing entirely and I would prefer the former.

Why not just nerf the merits and make it work like every sane person thinks it should?

EDIT: Or realize that it's not really a big deal if our Helices are a little better and get their panties out of a twist.

[Yugl]

Why not just nerf the merits and make it work like every sane person thinks it should?

EDIT: Or realize that it's not really a big deal if our Helices are a little better and get their panties out of a twist.

They could do that, but they don't seem to want to do that given their rejection of MV reform in combination with the promise of merit reform. As for the edit, the helix issue was kind of a big deal (18x SCH could one "helix" Hydra/potencially AV; plus, the method encouraged 3PP "On event"). Then again, no one really uses 18 people anymore.

[Korpg]

Even with the best possible gear SCH wouldn't be close to BLM (No Morrigans, MAB trait 1 only, no merits for potency, less elemental magic skill, and no witch sash). And you realize you just made an argument for BLM by saying the *best* geared SCH would only match moderately geared BLM right? And by moderately geared, you're really talking about gimp BLMs.

By your definition, then yes. I agree with you that BLM > SCH when it comes to damage and crowd control though

As for MP conservation, I've stated repeatedly that SCH did have superiority, but that for most content, that was irrelevant since you most content required stun/AoE/timeframe nukes.

Not going against you there either.

[Korpg]

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[Raksha]

As for the edit, the helix issue was kind of a big deal (18x SCH could one "helix" Hydra/potencially AV; plus, the method encouraged 3PP "On event"). Then again, no one really uses 18 people anymore.

Yes I was assuming that the "Multiple Modus" issue would be fixed some other way. No reason to have it resist if it can be used only once per mob.

[Sasaraixx]

Manifestation and Nukes
Is this mistranslated? Has anyone noticed spells used with manifestation to be less potent? Gimped Drains? Resisted/short enfeebles?

I believe that is a mistranslation. I went back and looked at Mocchi's original post.

検討は続けていきますが、精霊光来の章で範囲化した魔法は対象が増えても効果が減衰しないので、そのまま
範囲化というわけには行かず、バランスを取るための調整が必要になります。

That says, "We are continuing to examine but spells made AoE by Manifestation do not have their effect decreased even if the targets increase. Therefore we cannot go ahead with the change to area effect in the same way. An adjustment that preserves balance will be necessary."

[StingRay104]

Here is the follow-up to yesterday's Scholar post! I know it's been pointed out there's another thread, but it'd be weird to have part 1 here and part 2 there... I made a judgement call! (And I still blame Camate!)

We are working on responding to questions about spells and everything else by the beginning of next week.


Strategems


We will look into this, but balancing charges is surprisingly complicated, so we will need some time to work on this.


We may be able to work on a slight increase. However, considering that Rapture can be used relatively frequently, a drastic increase would be unlikely.


We have intentionally balanced its current effect with the possibility of misses in mind, so we do not plan on going back to the previous effects.


Since there are many requirements for this ability to take effect, we will look into reducing the recast time along with making the ability easier to use.


We can look into this. However, if this were to be implemented, we would need to look into negative effects like slow, too.


Spreading the effects of Accession to the alliance will disrupt the balance of this ability compared with similar spells and abilities, so we aren’t considering this.


We will continue to look into this, but the effects of spells that are turned into AoE by Manifestation are weakened, so adjustments to maintain that balance would also be necessary. Please be aware that implementing this will take a lot of time.

Can you just remove Modus Veritas then. Seriously if your gonna give us spells as lame as the helix spells and then make the only ability that can make them remotely worth casting have such a horendous hit rate, IE:1% as far as I've seen on anything worth hitting it on, we are really just better off without it and the damn helix spells. The idea for manifestation to effect nukes is a great idea especially since it does lower nuke damage a little as a negative, but remember it should be like a 10% max downgrade on damage otherwise it will be worthless as well. Also I understand that due to the fact the DRK community completely rejected all your ideas that the devs have to come up with something else, but please don't forget about us in the end.

[Alhanelem]

We have intentionally balanced its current effect with the possibility of misses in mind, so we do not plan on going back to the previous effects.

The thing is, these changes were instituted to counter a stacking exploit.

It's ridiculous for an ability with a 10 minute timer to miss like that. (Hell, it's ridiculous for eagle eye shot to miss at all either)

[Cymmina]

I agree with you that BLM > SCH when it comes to damage and crowd control though

Except SCH is better at crowd control than BLM. Was better at 75, still better at 90. BLM may have more sleep options (Sleep, Sleepga, Sleep II, Sleepga II), but SCH has 5 Stratagems to use with Break, Bind, and Gravity (depending on subjob) to keep their face from getting smashed in once Sleep(ga) II's duration ends, in addition to their own 2 sleeps. I've been the primary sleeper for Dynamis as RDM/BLM, BLM/RDM (before SCH got Stoneskin), and SCH/BLM. SCH/BLM is hands down the best, no contest. BLM/SCH comes in second, due to the 2 Stratagem limitation.