in light of all the payment raging, (( must read ))

[Byrth]

No, we seem to agree exactly on the facts (save one). You made several assertions earlier in the thread that, by a logical extension of the facts we agree upon, are wrong.

For instance, we seem to agree that click and buy is shady enough to warrant opening a shell account, yet you open the post by saying you don't know why people are complaining.

Your solution necessitates opening 2-3 accounts, yet you assert that it only requires opening one.

You name it "streamlining the payment process," somehow. You also don't seem to realize how easy it is for people to let monthly payments slide, and how often they do it.

You back off your claim that they're streamlining the process, and instead shift focus to some combination of "but POL has been bad for the last year!", "International banking rules have changed!", and "Maybe Hackers!" as possible reasons for the switch. All pretty much just speculation. POL has always been bad, I certainly haven't heard of any banking rules changing, and the threat of for-profit hackers likely hasn't increased in the last year.

So in short, you're wrong because you're wrong, and you know it. Also, if you enjoy continued support for this 9 year old grandpa of a game, you'd better hope that SE makes it as easy as possible for every kind of player to continue paying them. The support for this game is going to be directly related to its profitability.

If you don't believe people will unsubscribe over this, take a look at the number of sub-20 post-count posters in these threads.

[Korpg]

For instance, we seem to agree that click and buy is shady enough to warrant opening a shell account, yet you open the post by saying you don't know why people are complaining.

I don't think Click and Buy is shady. I have a junk account for all of my online transactions as a step to protect my money online. I use the exact same card that I have been using for years to pay for this game. I'm just surprised that I am the only person here aware enough to take this step to protect myself, I thought this is common sense!

Your solution necessitates opening 2-3 accounts, yet you assert that it only requires opening one.

My solution requires only the opening of 1 extra account. If 100% of the population has to do steps 2 and 3, and I offer an optional step 1, that doesn't mean that you get to skip steps 2 and 3 if you take the optional step 1. Learn to read.

You name it "streamlining the payment process," somehow. You also don't seem to realize how easy it is for people to let monthly payments slide, and how often they do it.

Neither one of us know the exact reason why they are doing this new method. I gave you my analysis of the situation, you don't have to take it as gospel. Although, many people here seem to do.

You back off your claim that they're streamlining the process, and instead shift focus to some combination of "but POL has been bad for the last year!", "International banking rules have changed!", and "Maybe Hackers!" as possible reasons for the switch. All pretty much just speculation. POL has always been bad, I certainly haven't heard of any banking rules changing, and the threat of for-profit hackers likely hasn't increased in the last year.

Again, possible explanations. Until SE actually states why they are doing these things, all we have is speculation. Even I would think you can tell the difference between speculation and gospel.

So in short, you're wrong because you're wrong, and you know it. Also, if you enjoy continued support for this 9 year old grandpa of a game, you'd better hope that SE makes it as easy as possible for every kind of player to continue paying them. The support for this game is going to be directly related to its profitability.

Speculation is wrong now? How can we know what is wrong when we don't even know what is right?

If you really are all that hung up about this new system, cancel your account now. We will just see you in a couple of months anyway. Otherwise, stop complaining about something you can't change.

[Arcalimo]

I don't think Click and Buy is shady. I have a junk account for all of my online transactions as a step to protect my money online. I use the exact same card that I have been using for years to pay for this game. I'm just surprised that I am the only person here aware enough to take this step to protect myself, I thought this is common sense!


My solution requires only the opening of 1 extra account. If 100% of the population has to do steps 2 and 3, and I offer an optional step 1, that doesn't mean that you get to skip steps 2 and 3 if you take the optional step 1. Learn to read.


Neither one of us know the exact reason why they are doing this new method. I gave you my analysis of the situation, you don't have to take it as gospel. Although, many people here seem to do.


Again, possible explanations. Until SE actually states why they are doing these things, all we have is speculation. Even I would think you can tell the difference between speculation and gospel.



Speculation is wrong now? How can we know what is wrong when we don't even know what is right?

If you really are all that hung up about this new system, cancel your account now. We will just see you in a couple of months anyway. Otherwise, stop complaining about something you can't change.

History shows that you are wrong.
Did you heard anything about revolutions?
A few examples to you:
-Your country would be nothing but a simple colony actually if your forefathers had that mentality.
-The big mayority of humans would be slaves working 24/7 under whips for a few minority of people with power.

Actually we are the only ones that can change this situation and people complaining for no reason about people complainign for a fair reason doesn't help.

I really don't see the fundaments of your complains, how does it affect you that other people could keep the actual billing system at the same time that you can use the new one? just like Japanesse can.

Does your solution solve this problem?

In short version and in English this mean:

-If your Original bank refuse a payement on a click and buy transaction you get 15€ + 7,5€ fee

-If you want to close your Click and Buy account its cost 15€ fee (Yeah but it was free to made it)

-If you dont use your Click and Buy account for more than 1 year you get 1€ fee per month then.

http://www.clickandbuy.com/WW_en/ter...onditions.html

If we just accept Click & buy, besides of the bad reputation and all that shit, SE would be forcing us to give an extra 15€ fee for cancelling our account or either pay them 1€ each month for something we don't want to use.
That or pay using crysta, buying extra amounts of it w/o knowing what could happen in the future (banned, leaving game for unespected mayor reason, death.. hell even if its 2€, those would be my property or of my sons), but no, they force us to have to either lose that too, or either spend it in something we didn't want.

It's not about making an extra account for security or anything, it's about time consumed in undesired stuff, forcing us to spend extra money in something we didn't want, etc. Hell is about values and morality.

And the worst is that this is impossed after 9 years, it would be different if it would be that way from the beginning, we could have acepted it or not, and prolly would have ended like FFIV, but now it does damage us, as it force us to either accept or lose all the time/stuff invested here, and this is enought for a lot of people to don't trust on SE anymore.

So yes, poeple do have a reason to complain about an unfair/immoral system impossed after 9 years, and that damages them, more or less.

And we do have the power to change this, even if you don't believe it (as i said before, history shows you are wrong), first complaining and later taking action if our complains are not taken into consideration.
And even if we don't leave the game entirely, 1000 people not paying for 1 month is money lost by SE that they could have earned by listening to their clients.
Some may come back, but the damage is done, and others won't come back for sure.
*1000 is just an example, could be more people considering the quantity of complains that you can see in the forum in just 1 day. (and note that i said temporaly leaving, not leaving forever).

Now its time for SE to evaluate if the gain will be worth the lost and the bad reputation they will earn for leading their clients into this trap.


Also, to your knowledge:
I don't need an extra bank account to buy with security, i check my bank account every day, if click & buy charges me w/o permission, i have X time(based on type of operation) to cancel the operation and get my money back.
The problem is that doing so, Click & buy could add me to an unpaid's black list and banks wouldn't lend me any money i would need in the future, GREATLY damaging my real life, even if i cancel the operation from any account, it's my name and my ID what get's the damage, even for 13€.
So at the end, either i eat the 13€ or i spend A LOT of time and money on laywers, trying to prove to a judge that i am inocent to get myself erased from that list.

So before sending someone to learn to read you should also learn about what you are talking about, not all countries have the same laws as your


In resume:
-People have a reason to complain about this unfair new impossed system.
-People complaining about other people complaining has no reason at all since if SE keep the actual system as well it won't affect them at all because you could use the new one too, like JP people, which is what the mayority of complains demand, so please stop doing this as it doesn't help at all.

That's my 2 cents,
Good night, ty for reading, all that~