Job Vision: Watch paint dry

[Raxiaz]

The shame is ours to share, as I'm pretty sure attack and weapon rating are not modifiers. The best weapon for Cataclysm is OA4 Yantok +2. For WAR, it's Pluto's staff.

what? pluto's staff? i would've thought jupiter's.

[Razushu]

what? pluto's staff? i would've thought jupiter's.

sssshhhhh! He's trying to stack the deck.

[Leonlionheart]

He's right about pluto's for Cataclysm. Darkness Elemental WS. With staff, TP phase doesn't matter as much, since it's the worst weapon type anyway.

[Malamasala]

You're getting the same buffs in these comparisions, hell the WAR in this example is even using a staff, and you're still not happy(is it because you know you'll still lose?).

Well, getting buffs at all sounds like more theory than a melee SMN. I can probably count on my fingers how many times I've had BRD buffs while meleeing on SMN. And that is covering a decade of playing.

Best comparison will be:

WAR + staff + no support
SMN + staff + predator claws + no support

That will show where SMN lies due to armor selection and stats. Everything else is pretty much scaling issues. G.Axe scaling far better than staff in damage for example, or buffs scaling WAR's base stats better than SMN's base stats.

Think of it like searching for an elemental spells base damage. You are looking for a SMNs base "WAR" value. It won't mean much for an actual battle, but it shows the initial gap.

[Razushu]

Well, getting buffs at all sounds like more theory than a melee SMN. I can probably count on my fingers how many times I've had BRD buffs while meleeing on SMN. And that is covering a decade of playing.

Best comparison will be:

WAR + staff + no support
SMN + staff + predator claws + no support

That will show where SMN lies due to armor selection and stats. Everything else is pretty much scaling issues. G.Axe scaling far better than staff in damage for example, or buffs scaling WAR's base stats better than SMN's base stats.

Think of it like searching for an elemental spells base damage. You are looking for a SMNs base "WAR" value. It won't mean much for an actual battle, but it shows the initial gap.

That's a terrible comparison. Unless they're using the same staff, and you take garuda out of the equation(and they both use the same WS). It would also prove nothing. I do understand what you're saying, but finding the base difference is meaningless. You would see it nowhere else but this test.

Some people, if this test was ever done would deliberatily misinterpret the findings. Claiming that it was a true representation of SMN vs. WAR.

[Leonlionheart]

I went down to your level and compared WAR w/ STAFF with SMN w/ STAFF

If we're adding in Avatar's, no way in hell I'm going to do that.

Honestly, how is it even POSSIBLE TO THINK that there is competition between SMN Melee and WAR, when there's barely any competition between WAR and the next best runner up in terms of DD?

[Tagrineth]

I still say if you want to melee so badly on SMN that playing SMN feels like "watching paint dry", you need to have a chat with that white blob in your Mog House. I hear he can fix the problem for you.

[Karinya_of_Carbuncle]

Everything else is pretty much scaling issues. G.Axe scaling far better than staff in damage for example

What weapons a job is skilled in is part of the job. SE knows perfectly well that staff, 1h sword, and clubs other than a few WHM only clubs suck. They're supposed to, because jobs that rely on those weapons aren't intended to melee for a lot of damage (in PLD's case it's a designed tradeoff for tanking, which used to work when PLD's mitigation was actually good and meaningful, and BLU is expected to make up the damage difference from a stronger weapon by casting blue magic). Real weapon-based DDs have access to stronger weapons with stronger WS.

I think daggers aren't supposed to suck, but kind of do, which is an ongoing problem for THF. But that's a different thread.

[Korpg]

Well, getting buffs at all sounds like more theory than a melee SMN. I can probably count on my fingers how many times I've had BRD buffs while meleeing on SMN. And that is covering a decade of playing.

Best comparison will be:

WAR + staff + no support
SMN + staff + predator claws + no support

That will show where SMN lies due to armor selection and stats. Everything else is pretty much scaling issues. G.Axe scaling far better than staff in damage for example, or buffs scaling WAR's base stats better than SMN's base stats.

Think of it like searching for an elemental spells base damage. You are looking for a SMNs base "WAR" value. It won't mean much for an actual battle, but it shows the initial gap.

You want a true comparison between WAR and SMN (melee)?

How about no gear, no support, no buffs, and no spells each?

Since you think that a WAR without its best weapon available is "fair," why not strip SMN of the same weapons?

[Alhanelem]

Mekki-shakki go!