Job Vision: Watch paint dry

[Korpg]

he needs the MP from /whm to keep his smn out because he keeps wiffing and can't get his TP to use his fabled myrkr...

That's what TP wings are there for.

But considering that we are talking about abyssea, I think it is safe to assume a 75% hit rate for him.

[Dallas]

And 3 flunkies to buff him and only him. We know, so stop posting.

[Korpg]

And 3 flunkies to buff him and only him. We know, so stop posting.

Buff the SMN also, but I guess that doesn't count either.

Also, you don't have an answer for the solo question, don't ya? Cause you never soloed anything?

[Leonlionheart]

And 3 flunkies to buff him and only him. We know, so stop posting.

I only take the one BRD... And I guess A WHM but if you're doing party play you'd want those too.

Even without them WAR, DRK, DRG, SAM, MNK, NIN, THF, DNC, PUP, BLU, am I missing anyone? oh, BST, RNG, BRDmelee, will all do more damage than SMN going and hitting something.

FFS Club Empyrean has only 20 less damage than Staff at 90.

[Razushu]

And 3 flunkies to buff him and only him. We know, so stop posting.

You're getting the same buffs in these comparisions, hell the WAR in this example is even using a staff, and you're still not happy(is it because you know you'll still lose?).

[Malamasala]

You're getting the same buffs in these comparisions, hell the WAR in this example is even using a staff, and you're still not happy(is it because you know you'll still lose?).

Well, getting buffs at all sounds like more theory than a melee SMN. I can probably count on my fingers how many times I've had BRD buffs while meleeing on SMN. And that is covering a decade of playing.

Best comparison will be:

WAR + staff + no support
SMN + staff + predator claws + no support

That will show where SMN lies due to armor selection and stats. Everything else is pretty much scaling issues. G.Axe scaling far better than staff in damage for example, or buffs scaling WAR's base stats better than SMN's base stats.

Think of it like searching for an elemental spells base damage. You are looking for a SMNs base "WAR" value. It won't mean much for an actual battle, but it shows the initial gap.

[Razushu]

Well, getting buffs at all sounds like more theory than a melee SMN. I can probably count on my fingers how many times I've had BRD buffs while meleeing on SMN. And that is covering a decade of playing.

Best comparison will be:

WAR + staff + no support
SMN + staff + predator claws + no support

That will show where SMN lies due to armor selection and stats. Everything else is pretty much scaling issues. G.Axe scaling far better than staff in damage for example, or buffs scaling WAR's base stats better than SMN's base stats.

Think of it like searching for an elemental spells base damage. You are looking for a SMNs base "WAR" value. It won't mean much for an actual battle, but it shows the initial gap.

That's a terrible comparison. Unless they're using the same staff, and you take garuda out of the equation(and they both use the same WS). It would also prove nothing. I do understand what you're saying, but finding the base difference is meaningless. You would see it nowhere else but this test.

Some people, if this test was ever done would deliberatily misinterpret the findings. Claiming that it was a true representation of SMN vs. WAR.

[Karinya_of_Carbuncle]

Everything else is pretty much scaling issues. G.Axe scaling far better than staff in damage for example

What weapons a job is skilled in is part of the job. SE knows perfectly well that staff, 1h sword, and clubs other than a few WHM only clubs suck. They're supposed to, because jobs that rely on those weapons aren't intended to melee for a lot of damage (in PLD's case it's a designed tradeoff for tanking, which used to work when PLD's mitigation was actually good and meaningful, and BLU is expected to make up the damage difference from a stronger weapon by casting blue magic). Real weapon-based DDs have access to stronger weapons with stronger WS.

I think daggers aren't supposed to suck, but kind of do, which is an ongoing problem for THF. But that's a different thread.

[Korpg]

Well, getting buffs at all sounds like more theory than a melee SMN. I can probably count on my fingers how many times I've had BRD buffs while meleeing on SMN. And that is covering a decade of playing.

Best comparison will be:

WAR + staff + no support
SMN + staff + predator claws + no support

That will show where SMN lies due to armor selection and stats. Everything else is pretty much scaling issues. G.Axe scaling far better than staff in damage for example, or buffs scaling WAR's base stats better than SMN's base stats.

Think of it like searching for an elemental spells base damage. You are looking for a SMNs base "WAR" value. It won't mean much for an actual battle, but it shows the initial gap.

You want a true comparison between WAR and SMN (melee)?

How about no gear, no support, no buffs, and no spells each?

Since you think that a WAR without its best weapon available is "fair," why not strip SMN of the same weapons?

[Malamasala]

You want a true comparison between WAR and SMN (melee)?

How about no gear, no support, no buffs, and no spells each?

Since you think that a WAR without its best weapon available is "fair," why not strip SMN of the same weapons?

I actually just want an INTERESTING comparison. But I'm quite flexible on this test. You can skip the avatar if you want to.

What you'd get with this test, is an example of how much melee traits and difference in armors make between the jobs. The idea to include the avatar were to see if having 0 traits but 1 avatar balanced it all out. I.e. a quick test to see if DA + attack bonus + better haste gear = 1 avatar pet.

And the reason G.Axe isn't part of any of these tests, is because I'm already pretty sure using the best weapon for WAR puts it as a better melee than SMN... else why would anyone play WAR over SMN? (Discuss this with Dallas though. He likes the discussions about WARs being half as good as SMNs)