Reopened: How can Empyrean be better than Relics?

[Korpg]

If you're going to come on here and subtly call me a noob with bad gear, you're incorrect. When I say they cheat, I'm speaking from experience. Having played this game since forever and being one of the original NA people doing endgame activities and continuing to do that stuff up until now, I assure you pretty much all very good endgame LS cheated, especially right before abyssea was introduced. I dunno how it was for you, but I assume it was the same as every other server, with 1 or 2 LS's having very good bots and dominating kings and land HNMs, and no one else even bothering to compete with them. You can't even counter with 'people who did events that didnt require bots didnt cheat' because well.... salvage bans? Ya, even those people who only did those types of events cheated. And just for lulz, anyone remember how many relics were lost with salvage bans? wasn't it like 500 perma banned and another 500 or so temp banned? Cause you know, people with relics dont cheat.

Yeah, most every endgame shell on Asura cheated in one fashion or another (my linkshell and probably one other being the exception towards the end). And Asura had the hardest hit on the Salvage bans (if I remember right, 150 people were banned from Asura alone).

[Insaniac]

You can look at my AH profile. My real character is linked. I didn't mean to imply anything about your gear but your comment made it sound like you have something against the old end game players and that makes me want to lump you in with the people who didn't participate in endgame that much pre-abyssea and hated old HNM LSs based on rumor and circumstance. It's rampant. Abyssea is good, emps are fine, I understand the desire to protect your new pretties but you don't need to shit on the work other people have done by making outrageous claims about 90% of relic owners cheating to get them. I worked hard for my relic and I know at least 15 others who worked just as hard or harder than me on my server. 90% is a ridiculous number to be throwing around. And yes every HNM LS has cheaters but so does every social LS and probably half the abyssea exp alliances you have been in depending on your definition of cheating. The same % of anyone who has anything has cheated in one way or another to get it. I can't tell you how many times I have been allseeingeye'd at briareus NMs and mappy'd on VNMs. Also, the salvage bans got nowhere near 500 relics and people with relics were not the only ones banned and didn't even make up a large % of the people banned.

[Leonlionheart]

90% might be too big, but I can assure you it's over 50%.

I've seen Relic owners with less knowledge of the game than pink power rangers. This of course is probably the smallest category of Relic owners, because most people will find out if they enjoy the game our not before they dish out big real currency to buy relics.

[Sparthos]

Given the chance anyone will try to cheat the system. You can not say that if the cheat was more widely known that every endgame LS that did salvge wouldn't have used it.

Im glad you know anyone will cheat the system given the chance, so lets stop making it seem like only hardcore players would.

Some hardcores got banned duping Salvage/Sandworm/Nyzul and I say to you - so what? We have no statistics of exactly who got banned since only few announced publicly that they got banned. For every hardcore player that was banned, how many others simply took their bans and moved on from XI? How many were banned simply for attending a run? How many were doing Nyzul and accidentally duped the loot?

SE handled the Salvage bans poorly, period. They applied napalm to a situation simply in response to having something go under their noses for a long time. I guarantee that many casuals and hardcores were killed off alike.

I believe he/she meant to prove that players didn't need any skill to get anything accomplished back then, only cheating/taking advantage of bugs/packet injection bots/telehacking/fleehackers. These players/groups have/had quite an advantage over the community that do not use them.

This idea of needing no skill to do stuff is completely asinine. Even if Sandworm or Dark Ixion was up for grabs by anyone @75, most groups would have been thoroughly pummeled by both.

If the typical player couldn't even do ODS right, what is supposed to convince me that in a perfect world without bots that the base could have even handled these mobs? Even up to today in Abyssea with all of the buffs one could ever imagine individuals are still noobing it up on mobs.

Im not going to deny that cheating wasn't rampant but most of the "king" tier mobs were designed for a hardcore base in the first place. To a hardcore player these mobs may seem easy but lets be serious, most people are talking to talk.

Even hardcore groups had days where they noobed it up on garbage like Cerberus.

[Ravenmore]

Wait, just because they got banned didn't put them in the elite. Just those who like to use a method outside of norm for their own personal gain and exploit it.

The ones that got banned were most of the ones going around screaming how elite they were based of thier gear. When they went on site say those that needed to know about the cheat knew about it reinforced it.

[Alhanelem]

SE handled the Salvage bans poorly, period.

They handled it properly, period. People broke the rules, which was grounds for banning as stated in the rules, and they recieved the perscribed punishment. There is nothing more to it than that. All this what ifs about if "everybody" did it is pointless because not "everybody" did it.

I guarantee that many casuals and hardcores were killed off alike.

It wasn't "many" people. It was a very small percentage. SE had 100s of thousands of customers at the time and these bans were a drop in the bucket.

Anyone who knew they were cheating the system got what was coming to them and they deserved it. Some people who weren't a regular part of it or weren't orchestrating it got slapped on the wrist, and they should consider themselves fortunate.

What does all this have to do with relic and empyrean weapons, anyway?

[Cursed]

This entire argument that Mythics are harder to obtain than relics is partially wrong.
Since the dynamis update, I will say that obtaining relics 75 has become much easier. Being able to spam dynamis daily with a small group and get 100-200 currency a day is pretty awesome. while also keeping the 500k you would have coughed up to sponsor the run and spending it on more currency. Yes Relics are probably very easy. But Mythics can be too.
Mythics are currently harder to obtain for 2 main reasons
1st, because they are crap for the most part or the improvement they provide is mild in comparison to empyreans, which are easier to obtain. And if for some reason you're sick and don't want the best weapon (empyrean), or the 2nd best (WoE) you can always get a Relic (3rd best).
2nd, because no one is currently ever in Whitegate doing TOA content. As a result, there are less Alexandrites, less people to static for Nyzul Isle climbs, less people to do salvage with, no one selling Zeni pics and no one bothered enough to farm them.
If mythics became the best weapons tomorrow, they would instantly become far more attainable.

Poor DRG, its mythic is a pretty sick weapon.


EDIT:
Salvage bans -
SE knows it messed up big time with Salvage bans.
Tell me where are the routine STF reports we once used to be bombarded with? That little PR stunt didn't last long. Wonder how much money the STF cost SE lol.
I've sat across their EU COO and told him straight up I didn't think this company was worth investing in because it treated its customers like criminals.
In other MMOs, it takes a lot for the company to cut you off, give you the silent treatment.
SE even stated openly "We do not need a reason to ban anyone from our services, and they need not break any rules. We reserve the right to act without any warning, cause or communication of such to the 2nd or 3rd party".
That's a cheap legal way of saying "yo we make up the rules as the game is played, get in bed with us at your own risk"

Their first MMO, FFXI, has been online for a decade, and fan run website and forums have been the main source of communicating information among the none japanese speaking clients/customers. Only after a decade, at the end of the game's life does the company decide to invest in some kind of communication pathway between itself and its customers.

That's why I told Jurgen not to look over here for money. We may play this game cuz we're addicts, but being an addict doesn't mean our business sense went out the window.
My 9 year old son could do a better job at running SE's public relations and corporate coms units.

[Insaniac]

90% might be too big, but I can assure you it's over 50%.

I've seen Relic owners with less knowledge of the game than pink power rangers. This of course is probably the smallest category of Relic owners, because most people will find out if they enjoy the game our not before they dish out big real currency to buy relics.

Meh, most emp owners don't know how to play/gear their jobs either. I would say a larger % than relic owners but that's just my opinion. And 50+% is still an outrageous claim. Until you know someone personally you can't make those kinds of judgments. Everything you know about someone you have never talked to is 100% hearsay. I had at least 10 different rumors started about me after I got my relic about how I bought gil, stole my LS bank, sold currency and ended with more money than I started with, had an e-lationship with someone who was involved in deciding who the next sponsor was, ect. ect. People have always had it out for relic owners and most of the time it's unjustified.

[Leonlionheart]

Meh, most emp owners don't know how to play/gear their jobs either. I would say a larger % than relic owners but that's just my opinion. And 50+% is still an outrageous claim. Until you know someone personally you can't make those kinds of judgments. Everything you know about someone you have never talked to is 100% hearsay. I had at least 10 different rumors started about me after I got my relic about how I bought gil, stole my LS bank, sold currency and ended with more money than I started with, had an e-lationship with someone who was involved in deciding who the next sponsor was, ect. ect. People have always had it out for relic owners and most of the time it's unjustified.

It goes the same way on both arguments. Across the internet even if you do talk to them the odds are they will lie to you if they have bought gil, considering it's such an offense.

I've met maybe two Relic owners who have legitimately gotten relics, and played with dozens. The two Relic owners who are legit are the only ones deserving of the relics, and they both worked hard for them and keep up their job adamantly.

I can't say absolutely that they have bought gil, but you can't say they haven't either. I can say though, that MANY abuse and rip off LS. More than half of relic owners before 2010, of that I'm certain.

[Cream_Soda]

I can say though, that MANY abuse and rip off LS. More than half of relic owners before 2010, of that I'm certain.

No matter how douchy it may seem, there is nothing about that which is not legit