Reopened: How can Empyrean be better than Relics?

[Alienmonkey]

Really its not about being hard since it was never hard to make a relic, time consuming yes. If we had the system we have now for relic they would be more common. Correct me if i'm wrong but the relic data was only for the cenus was one month.

No one who couldn't make a relic before the dyna update is going to have it finished by now most likely. It's still a ton of work.

[Ravenmore]

No one who couldn't make a relic before the dyna update is going to have it finished by now most likely. It's still a ton of work.

Not really only getting 100 coins a day buying or soloing would take you 170 days to finish that part. Now if you can solo 100 coins and buy one 100 piece which runs around 1.2 to 1.5 on my server you can cut that in half. With gil raining from the sky if you go out and farm it as your prime target you would have little trouble getting enough to buy one 100 piece a day. Since all you have to do to get a 100 singles is go to the north lands which are the easiest to get 4/5, 5/5 TEs decent solo class can proc on the JA mobs. Doing that we are now down to 85 days to finish.

[Byrth]

I think that was relic data from the last census up until April of this year.

[Suirieko]

I think that was relic data from the last census up until April of this year.

SE said that the data were used up until the May 10th update, so before that Dynamis overhaul update.

I think Mythic's was a good balance in that respect. The WS gave added benefits for a mythic user BUT with a quest anyone could get and use the WS. Personally tho id prefer the WS's not be tied to a weapon at all. I would rather the weapon just have really unique and strong stats and make the special WS's available to everyone. With a quest or without a quest it doesnt matter.

For the most part, ESPECIALLY the mage's, this is how the weapons for the mages should've been all about. The stats actually benefits the mages, and what they do, especially Yagrush. Who wouldn't want a WHM with permanent Divine Veil effect? It's why it's extremely popular. Basically, the mythic had the right idea: It focuses on boosting certain aspect of the jobs, but most of them barely boost it to the point where the weapon was still unremarkable, and therefore, there was little justification to obtain them other than for the sake of achievement.

The Polearm, Ryunohige, is also a great example of how it benefits the job. It takes advantage of one of the unique aspect of Dragoons (the jumps) and greatly strengthens it. Jumps for Dragoon is already strong, with spirit and soul jumps, it's even stronger. This is why Ryunohige is considered as one of the best DD mythic weapon. Even then, you cannot deny that the mythic weapon is nearly unreasonable to obtain when only extremely few of them were actually worth getting. No one does it because the events involved, hardly anyone want do nowadays since abyssea gears replaced just about most of it. This is especially true for Salvage, and because of this, the cost of Alexandrites have skyrocketed, and there's never enough in the server to justify doing any mythic to begin with.

Finally, the other biggest problem with mythic is that it requires constant group effort. You need an alliance to do Einherjar at minimum. You still need 3 people to do all 50 assaults, AND Nyzul, which takes a lot of time. You still need a decent group to do ZNMs, and be prepared to do all 3 ZNM paths, multiple times, due to how rarity of the final three trophy. And of course, you still need a group for salvage for the Alexandrites. I'm not saying mythics should be soloable (this isn't the point here), but what I'm saying is you're going to have a very hard justifying finding people that is willing to stick with you the whole way there. Here's how people are going to see this. "The gears are outdated." or "The Mythic sucks (Unless you're doing Nirvana, Ryunohige, Yagrush, or Burtgang)." or "This is very time consuming, I don't think I'm up for it", you get the point.

People say that Mythic should've been the best. I agree, but guess what. They are far from the best. Case in point: Vajra is a very unremarkable weapon for a THF, especially since it barely boosts the SATA damage.

Dynamis relic is much easier now, there's no denying that. You *could* technically solo on the currencies, and find a few people (say 6 people) to kill the NMs drops, especially Attestation and fragment. Also, to say that Relics are easier to do than Empyrean weapons, It's debatable. Look at Masamune/Caladbolg/Armageddon, at most you only need two people for this, three to do this quicker (War, nin, whm for staggering red, obviously).

And? I loved getting my Usuaken armor. It took what felt like forever. When the af3 came out, I moved to it. I'm not going to wear inferior gear just because.

What I'm attached to is the journey and time it takes to get these items, not the items themselves.

Just because I don't use Usukane anymore doesn't mean I regret the journey and the process I took to obtain it.

If there is something better than what I have, I'll make means to obtain it. New journeys for new memories.

I agree with this 100%. A lot of the gears I have, I have attachments to it because of the journey to obtain the gears, and most of them I don't even use anymore because they were replaced, and there's nothing beneficial about it anymore. For example, the recently replaced Shura Togi +1? Most people at first would think I spend an extreme amount of money on it. How much did I really spend on it? ~425K. Almost two years ago, I spent 2 weeks looking for materials and a crafter to make the cursed togi. The divine lumbers were still expensive, and it involved a some mid-leveled gear that no one ever makes. After finally getting everything I needed, I asked my crafter friend to make it, and boom, it +1'd to my and the crafter's surprise. It was even first attempt too. It sucked that I no longer use it, so now my mannequin wears it in my MH, but hey, the journey to get it made it worth while.

[Ravenmore]

I don't know on the front page it said all data collected in may. They could have just compaired the two.

[Melodicya]

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[Andrien]

I personally don't like the idea of very old content weapons being the best for years and years. I prefer something new and powerful enough to make it a most wanted item. Just like armors, most of the old content armory is gimp compared to now. Thats just my opinion.

[Ravenmore]

Given the chance anyone will try to cheat the system. You can not say that if the cheat was more widely known that every endgame LS that did salvge wouldn't have used it.

[Sparthos]

Given the chance anyone will try to cheat the system. You can not say that if the cheat was more widely known that every endgame LS that did salvge wouldn't have used it.

Im glad you know anyone will cheat the system given the chance, so lets stop making it seem like only hardcore players would.

Some hardcores got banned duping Salvage/Sandworm/Nyzul and I say to you - so what? We have no statistics of exactly who got banned since only few announced publicly that they got banned. For every hardcore player that was banned, how many others simply took their bans and moved on from XI? How many were banned simply for attending a run? How many were doing Nyzul and accidentally duped the loot?

SE handled the Salvage bans poorly, period. They applied napalm to a situation simply in response to having something go under their noses for a long time. I guarantee that many casuals and hardcores were killed off alike.

I believe he/she meant to prove that players didn't need any skill to get anything accomplished back then, only cheating/taking advantage of bugs/packet injection bots/telehacking/fleehackers. These players/groups have/had quite an advantage over the community that do not use them.

This idea of needing no skill to do stuff is completely asinine. Even if Sandworm or Dark Ixion was up for grabs by anyone @75, most groups would have been thoroughly pummeled by both.

If the typical player couldn't even do ODS right, what is supposed to convince me that in a perfect world without bots that the base could have even handled these mobs? Even up to today in Abyssea with all of the buffs one could ever imagine individuals are still noobing it up on mobs.

Im not going to deny that cheating wasn't rampant but most of the "king" tier mobs were designed for a hardcore base in the first place. To a hardcore player these mobs may seem easy but lets be serious, most people are talking to talk.

Even hardcore groups had days where they noobed it up on garbage like Cerberus.

[Insaniac]

You can look at my AH profile. My real character is linked. I didn't mean to imply anything about your gear but your comment made it sound like you have something against the old end game players and that makes me want to lump you in with the people who didn't participate in endgame that much pre-abyssea and hated old HNM LSs based on rumor and circumstance. It's rampant. Abyssea is good, emps are fine, I understand the desire to protect your new pretties but you don't need to shit on the work other people have done by making outrageous claims about 90% of relic owners cheating to get them. I worked hard for my relic and I know at least 15 others who worked just as hard or harder than me on my server. 90% is a ridiculous number to be throwing around. And yes every HNM LS has cheaters but so does every social LS and probably half the abyssea exp alliances you have been in depending on your definition of cheating. The same % of anyone who has anything has cheated in one way or another to get it. I can't tell you how many times I have been allseeingeye'd at briareus NMs and mappy'd on VNMs. Also, the salvage bans got nowhere near 500 relics and people with relics were not the only ones banned and didn't even make up a large % of the people banned.