Creating "Job Abilities" for Throwing, Shield, Parrying, and Blocking

[wish12oz]

Throwing is stupid, not useful, and can't be fixed.
SE also said already they cannot add throwing WS's

Here's the problem with throwing:

Shuriken have a 192 delay.
Kannagi+Kamome have a combined (210+180) 390 delay.
When you hit the delay reduction cap of 80%, this becomes a new delay of 78.
78+78=156, you get slightly more then 2 melee attacks rounds per throw.(throwing delay is 192)
with apoc, /war, brutal, eponas you have triple attack+18%, double attack+18%, which means 54% of the time, you get an extra attack per melee round.
So at +54% melee attacks per round, every time you attack, you get 1 extra attack, because you attack twice every round.
you get slightly more then 2 attack rounds per throw, you get 3 attacks per round.
Your throwing damage needs to be slightly better then 6 melee attacks and give as much tp as 6 melee attacks to be on par with just meleeing.
Throwing comes no where near either of these 2 things, and never will, it's impossible unless they make haste affect ranged attacks.

Even sange is garbage, because it makes you miss 3-8 attacks rounds to use it, and doesn't give as much tp or do as much damage as 3 attack rounds, your ideas for throwing JAs are in the same boat. Except they stun/bind/gravity/whatever, problem there is that those things are entirely not useful. A stun would be useful, but only if it's 100% proc, which yours is not.

EDIT: shield retaliation is the same as that spell I can't remember he name of, except it doesn't increase block rate.

EDIT2:: Maybe I should be more specific, I think I should.

It[INDENT]-Doubled Mark: Causes each of your throwing attacks to hit a target twice. (Timed duration of effect) *Doubled Mark Example*

Even with 100% DA, throwing would not do as much damage as simply meleeing, (see above math for how much a throwing attack needs to do, 6 melee swings worth of damage and tp gain) and it would also take qirmiz tathlum away. Any JA that is designed to increase your damage output, needs to do more damage then simply meleeing, or it's not useful. This JA, is not useful, throwing, is not useful. Even with this JA, you would do more damage and gain more tp simply meleeing, maybe if it made you throw 6 shurikens at once, it would stand a chance, but 2? no way.

This brings us into another point, of just how broken you need to make throwing in order to keep up with meleeing, I just did a glavoid, 75% crit rate, 70 damage melee/hit average, 200 melee/crit average. thats 4.5 crits and 1.5 normal hits to throw 1 shuriken, or 1005 melee damage, and I also would miss out on the TP from those hits, which is 1/3rd of a blade: hi, which was 3.5k average, or another 1100 damage. So basically, by throwing that 1 shuriken, I lost 1000 melee damage and 1100 ws damage, if that shuriken didn't do 2100 damage, it wasn't worth using.

The damage numbers for glavoid were serverly unbuffed btw, give me stalwarts/good food/berserk/minuet/dia/chaos roll/anything etc type of buffs, and they'd be easily be doubled or tripled. The only buff I had was I used a mithkabob, didn't even use berserk.

[Habiki]

Throwing is stupid, not useful, and can't be fixed.
SE also said already they cannot add throwing WS's

Here's the problem with throwing:

Shuriken have a 192 delay.
Kannagi+Kamome have a combined (210+180) 390 delay.
When you hit the delay reduction cap of 80%, this becomes a new delay of 78.
78+78=156, you get slightly more then 2 melee attacks rounds per throw.(throwing delay is 192)
with apoc, /war, brutal, eponas you have triple attack+18%, double attack+18%, which means 54% of the time, you get an extra attack per melee round.
So at +54% melee attacks per round, every time you attack, you get 1 extra attack, because you attack twice every round.
you get slightly more then 2 attack rounds per throw, you get 3 attacks per round.
Your throwing damage needs to be slightly better then 6 melee attacks and give as much tp as 6 melee attacks to be on par with just meleeing.
Throwing comes no where near either of these 2 things, and never will, it's impossible unless they make haste affect ranged attacks.

Even sange is garbage, because it makes you miss 3-8 attacks rounds to use it, and doesn't give as much tp or do as much damage as 3 attack rounds, your ideas for throwing JAs are in the same boat. Except they stun/bind/gravity/whatever, problem there is that those things are entirely not useful. A stun would be useful, but only if it's 100% proc, which yours is not.

EDIT: shield retaliation is the same as that spell I can't remember he name of, except it doesn't increase block rate.

EDIT2:: Maybe I should be more specific, I think I should.


Even with 100% DA, throwing would not do as much damage as simply meleeing, (see above math for how much a throwing attack needs to do, 6 melee swings worth of damage and tp gain) and it would also take qirmiz tathlum away. Any JA that is designed to increase your damage output, needs to do more damage then simply meleeing, or it's not useful. This JA, is not useful, throwing, is not useful. Even with this JA, you would do more damage and gain more tp simply meleeing, maybe if it made you throw 6 shurikens at once, it would stand a chance, but 2? no way.

This brings us into another point, of just how broken you need to make throwing in order to keep up with meleeing, I just did a glavoid, 75% crit rate, 70 damage melee/hit average, 200 melee/crit average. thats 4.5 crits and 1.5 normal hits to throw 1 shuriken, or 1005 melee damage, and I also would miss out on the TP from those hits, which is 1/3rd of a blade: hi, which was 3.5k average, or another 1100 damage. So basically, by throwing that 1 shuriken, I lost 1000 melee damage and 1100 ws damage, if that shuriken didn't do 2100 damage, it wasn't worth using.

Why does it even have to keep up with melee damage if your just using it to pull a mob with some extra damage compared to a boomerrang or chakram. If Utsusemi: San ever gets added i can also see Sange getting more use, why should nin just be limited to melee. Also you should stop casting shadows wish12oz cause it takes away from your dmg potential .

[wish12oz]

Why does it even have to keep up with melee damage if your just using it to pull a mob with some extra damage compared to a boomerrang or chakram. If Utsusemi: San ever gets added i can also see Sange getting more use, why should nin just be limited to melee. Also you should stop casting shadows wish12oz cause it takes away from your dmg potential .

I pretty much don't cast shadows, thanks for pointing out why. In just normal meleeing gear, most mobs acc on you is below 30% anyway, I can easily cure how much damage they do to me with a single WHM without anything beyond atmas.

And why would you pull with a throwing weapon? That's just silly. Provoke would be faster, and kurayami or hojo would be the same speed, but actually do something useful.

Sange makes you miss 3-8 attacks rounds by using it, until it does more damage then 3 attack rounds, it's not worth using. Why would you use a JA designed just to do damage, when it does less then meleeing? Please explain how that makes any sense at all.


EDIT::: At no point did I say ninja needed to be all about melee damage onry. I just pointed out how broken you need to make throwing to make it useful, and why realistically SE will never do it. But hey, if you wanna go RP your favorite Naruto character in FFXI, go right ahead, nothing is stopping you, there's even an NPC or two that will sell you shurikens if you can't find a crafter and some materials.
だってばよ！

[Huevriel]

I'd like to see a massive craftable shuriken (probably stacks in 12) that is, in the eyes of wish12oz and countless others, absolutely useless. Few people would actually use it and see slightly higher damage than normal shuriken while wish12oz'ers just flame it and ignore it completely. FFVII had massive shuriken so it wouldn't be too far off a concept.
Of course, asking SE to make a whole new animation set for giant shuriken (unless they recycle the angon animation) is outworldly and asking too much. No lie.

And to the wish12oz'ers. I know you like to maximize your effectiveness. Kudos and Kupos to you. Thanks for at least acknowledging that some of us use them regardless of "uselessness" in attached quote. I don't really know what nay-roo-toe is all aboot but sure.

EDIT::: At no point did I say ninja needed to be all about melee damage onry. I just pointed out how broken you need to make throwing to make it useful, and why realistically SE will never do it. But hey, if you wanna go RP your favorite Naruto character in FFXI, go right ahead, nothing is stopping you, there's even an NPC or two that will sell you shurikens if you can't find a crafter and some materials.
だってばよ！

Btw NINs can use gun too. I make bullets for a friend while he makes shuriken for me. We have fun using both on NIN.
Lets keep this post in good spirits ^ ^

@OP: interesting suggestions. I main COR. Been wanting Parrying boosts forever.