NEO Nyzul 2.0

Be careful guys only positive feedback, negative feedback is not accepted. Oh and the devs are always right, and if they ever touch nyzul they explicitely said they'd nerf the gear.

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Originally Posted by Monchat

Be careful guys only positive feedback, negative feedback is not accepted. Oh and the devs are always right, and if they ever touch nyzul they explicitely said they'd nerf the gear.

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<devs> After careful review (1 year of complaints) we have decided to lower the difficulty of Neo-Nyzul Isle. However, in the interest of Barance... we have decided to make the gear suck. We think that doing this will maintain the current lack of reward to effort ratio nicely. Your feedback is greatly appreciated on this matter as it gives us something to laugh at.

I’d like to put the two different Nyzul challenges into perspective a bit.

The original Nyzul was a lot easier to clear, but the drop rates were not very high. On top of the drop rate, you would only get one piece of equipment as well, which could possibly be something different than what you were after.

The new Nyzul might be a bit more difficult to reach floor 100, but if you are able to successfully get there and defeat the boss, each party member has a 100% guaranteed item, and what’s even better is that you can select the item of your choice.

Based on the above, though it might be more challenging to reach the higher floors, when you get there you will definitely be rewarded.

On a separate note, it seems like some players are finding the lamp floors to be the most troublesome. I would be happy to submit any suggestions you have for improving this aspect of Nyzul, so please list them out and I will talk to the development team about them.

The only way to improve lamp floors is to get rid of them. The "lamps in a certain order" is far worse than "all the lamps at once" though. If someone messes it up, you've just wasted a huge amount of time. About the only thing I could imagine is limit the number of lamps, or put all the lamps near eachother in a single room so you can see eachother.

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Originally Posted by Camate

I’d like to put the two different Nyzul challenges into perspective a bit.

The original Nyzul was a lot easier to clear, but the drop rates were not very high. On top of the drop rate, you would only get one piece of equipment as well, which could possibly be something different than what you were after.

The new Nyzul might be a bit more difficult to reach floor 100, but if you are able to successfully get there and defeat the boss, each party member has a 100% guaranteed item, and what’s even better is that you can select the item of your choice.

Based on the above, though it might be more challenging to reach the higher floors, when you get there you will definitely be rewarded.

On a separate note, it seems like some players are finding the lamp floors to be the most troublesome. I would be happy to submit any suggestions you have for improving this aspect of Nyzul, so please list them out and I will talk to the development team about them.

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The current system is perfect. I'm starting to see plenty of people with floor 100 gear. The dedicated are getting their gear. People just feel they should be able to reach floor 100 without having to deal with a silly order game that takes a chunk of time in an event that EVERY second counts. Lamps aren't skill. They're just a blocker. I suggest maybe just lowering the appearance of order lamp floors. That is all. Otherwise, I love the event. People just aren't utilizing the tricks given to us by the game.

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Originally Posted by Camate

On a separate note, it seems like some players are finding the lamp floors to be the most troublesome. I would be happy to submit any suggestions you have for improving this aspect of Nyzul, so please list them out and I will talk to the development team about them.

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Show numbers on the lamps - sure it removes the challenge of figuring out the order, but helps you figure out how many to look for on same-time floors, and you still need to leave someone at each lamp to hit them in order. It'd still be a long floor, compared to family, single monster, code lamp, etc - but it's not a run-ender.

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Originally Posted by Camate

I’d like to put the two different Nyzul challenges into perspective a bit.

The original Nyzul was a lot easier to clear, but the drop rates were not very high. On top of the drop rate, you would only get one piece of equipment as well, which could possibly be something different than what you were after.

The new Nyzul might be a bit more difficult to reach floor 100, but if you are able to successfully get there and defeat the boss, each party member has a 100% guaranteed item, and what’s even better is that you can select the item of your choice.

Based on the above, though it might be more challenging to reach the higher floors, when you get there you will definitely be rewarded.

On a separate note, it seems like some players are finding the lamp floors to be the most troublesome. I would be happy to submit any suggestions you have for improving this aspect of Nyzul, so please list them out and I will talk to the development team about them.

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Suggestion: Remove all lamp floors. (except code floors, they tend to be very fast)

I would suggest to remove all the unnecessary delays. This includes time spent:

-Loading into starting room.
-Obtaining temp items in starting room.
-Porting up after each completed floor.
-Waiting for lamp delay, either for all lamps to light up or for cooldown after a wrong order/missed "same time" lamp.

How about start the timer on floor 1, and not the staging room.

As far as lamps, how about limiting the number of lamps to a maximum of 3.

Have the timer freeze on each floor once the objective is completed.

The only other thing i can think of is, introduce the purchase of a revitalizer in the temp chest. That would allow for more diverse groups instead of being tied to 2 scholars and 4 heavy DD's.

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Originally Posted by Camate

I’d like to put the two different Nyzul challenges into perspective a bit.

The original Nyzul was a lot easier to clear, but the drop rates were not very high. On top of the drop rate, you would only get one piece of equipment as well, which could possibly be something different than what you were after.

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It wasn't perfect, but it was a fine system. One of the best pre-Abyssea systems SE had ever developed really. The gear, however was generally lackluster. The rewards were random and the floors were random, and that's about all the layers of random we really needed. It could be frustrating at times, but never discouragingly so. It was never really that big a hardship to try again if you didn't get your drop.

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The new Nyzul might be a bit more difficult to reach floor 100, but if you are able to successfully get there and defeat the boss, each party member has a 100% guaranteed item, and what’s even better is that you can select the item of your choice.

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A bit? Really? If it were only a bit, I doubt you'd see any complaints and you'd have constant lines of people at the entrance. Using the term "a bit" just shows how horribly out of touch and inattentive the devs are. They're being blinded by their own vision so to speak.

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Based on the above, though it might be more challenging to reach the higher floors, when you get there you will definitely be rewarded.

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But it's not when it's IF. I realize it's always technically an IF with every form of battle content, but this is a really really big IF that's far too big for most of us to bear and keep our sanity intact. Yeah you keep your uber gear rare, but you also scare a lot of players away from the event entirely. Is an event really a success in an MMO if hardly anyone spends time on it?

I think the real problem goes deeper than the structure of Neo-Nyzul. I would be absolutely fine if it were essentially off-limits to me, if I felt as though there were current content that was intended for me. Post-Abyssea you guys are just striking out left and right with most of the playerbase. You only seem to be appealing to a rather limited segment of the population. You either don't see that this is what's happening, or you're fine with whatever happens as long as the dev's vision of the game is maintained. It's obviously more important for the devs themselves and the few players who completely appreciate their vision to be happy than the rest of us who want something "a bit" different from that.

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Originally Posted by Radec

Show numbers on the lamps - sure it removes the challenge of figuring out the order, but helps you figure out how many to look for on same-time floors, and you still need to leave someone at each lamp to hit them in order. It'd still be a long floor, compared to family, single monster, code lamp, etc - but it's not a run-ender.

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This. Lamp floors are the most stressful since they're a guaranteed time waster (aside from Code), which are can't afford at all in Nyzul2.0. Every other type of floor takes at most 1-2 minutes depending on your setup, your kill speed, and hopefully isn't one of those giant empty floors where you spend a minute alone searching for that one final monster to clear the objective.

Would be more fun to search out a numbered order than to have people sit still for 3-4 minutes figuring out the order and waiting on the long cooldown between tries.

Get rid of lamp lighting order altogether, I don't think anyone will miss them.

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Originally Posted by Ophannus

Meh I did Nyzul the other day with MNK MNK WAR WAR SCH SCH, didn't win but got to floor 90-98ish three times(but we were slow on lamp floors) probably could have gotten to 100 if we invested in sprinter drinksx2 and powder boots.

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You wouldn't of had time to kill the boss and lot / pass the gear.

This is an ever where seconds count and why the random BS that can happen on floors screws you.

Remove lamp order floors or label the lamps 1 through 5. Order floors destroy any chance a group has of getting 100 unless they guess right on the 1st or 2nd try and the chance of that on a 5 lamp floor is extremely low and it seems like the chance of hitting order floors is pretty high.

P.S. I made a list of pretty universally supported ideas for NI2 HERE that never got any comrep attention.

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Originally Posted by Kaisha

This. Lamp floors are the most stressful since they're a guaranteed time waster (aside from Code), which are can't afford at all in Nyzul2.0. Every other type of floor takes at most 1-2 minutes depending on your setup, your kill speed, and hopefully isn't one of those giant empty floors where you spend a minute alone searching for that one final monster to clear the objective.

Would be more fun to search out a numbered order than to have people sit still for 3-4 minutes figuring out the order and waiting on the long cooldown between tries.

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2min is too long for any floor. Assuming 5 min total for final boss / lot / pass and lobby entry, that leaves you 25m to do the actual run. For needing 17 floors you need to clear each one is 88s or less.

The two biggest time wasters are lamps and kill all. Floors tend to have NMs on them, and kill all means you gotta deal with this NMs, some of them have extremely annoying abilities or take long times to kill (Flan / Quirin). That is time that you've effectively flushed down the toilet. Its all the running around that wastes time.

I said at most. You aren't guaranteed to always have 1min floors, but you're still allowed to have a couple 2min here and there in the offchance you get a good floor jump, or you just get a floor that's time consuming, like a kill-all on a maze floor, or a family floor with Soulflayers.

Make all the neo lamp floors register or remove them, like people are saying. Also might I suggest letting the mission leader (guy who issues order to begin mission at start) select via a popup prompt to move up floors? It's a waste of time and resources to either leave someone at a lamp or have them leave the battle early to hoof it back to the runic lamp just to make the party jump floors.

some floors are really huge

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Originally Posted by Kaisha

I said at most. You aren't guaranteed to always have 1min floors, but you're still allowed to have a couple 2min here and there in the offchance you get a good floor jump, or you just get a floor that's time consuming, like a kill-all on a maze floor, or a family floor with Soulflayers.

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Every 2min floor is a 30s floor you need to have. The odds are in favor of longer floors not shorter. There are too many ways the RNG can screw you over. Kill all on a floor full of flans and puddings, guaranteed game finisher.

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Originally Posted by Camate

I’d like to put the two different Nyzul challenges into perspective a bit.

The original Nyzul was a lot easier to clear, but the drop rates were not very high. On top of the drop rate, you would only get one piece of equipment as well, which could possibly be something different than what you were after.

The new Nyzul might be a bit more difficult to reach floor 100, but if you are able to successfully get there and defeat the boss, each party member has a 100% guaranteed item, and what’s even better is that you can select the item of your choice.

Based on the above, though it might be more challenging to reach the higher floors, when you get there you will definitely be rewarded.

On a separate note, it seems like some players are finding the lamp floors to be the most troublesome. I would be happy to submit any suggestions you have for improving this aspect of Nyzul, so please list them out and I will talk to the development team about them.

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So basically: "the old event was easy enough, but the gear / drops sucked. So we decided that this time around, the event part would suck, but the drops / gear would be good. We can't ever make an event that is just all around good because we don't want to raise the bar. There has to be some "suck" in there someplace. Enjoy!"

As far as lamps go... these would be great in an event that wasn't timed. Best recommendation I can come up with is to either remove them, or limit it to 1 instance of lamps per run.

just so people know even if you time out on floor 100 as long as you KILL the boss you get the KI for your gear of choice , ive had a few runs were we killed the boss and had under 3 secs to lot / pass / exit and it just didnt happen in time.

also remove lamp floors
remove lobby time
and add a stopper to the timer upon floor objective completion

make the intermediate bosses useful:

killng floor 20 boss X times removes "code lamp"
killing floor 40 boss X times removes "activate together"
killing floor 60 boss X times removes order
killing 80 boss floor X times gives ???floor +1 (so 3~10).
killing floor 100 once already gives something.

Or something along those lines. I think that would add a "sense of progression" to the event...

Or just get rid of the lamp fllor, they are the very reason evryone that has floor 100 win is cheating.

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Originally Posted by saevel

You wouldn't of had time to kill the boss and lot / pass the gear.

This is an ever where seconds count and why the random BS that can happen on floors screws you.

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Take your pants off your head and read what I type, and try to understand it. When you kill the floor 100 boss in neo nyzul, immediately upon it's death everyone in the party gets a key item. You then exchange that key item to the NPC next to Nyzul mission giving NPC in whitegate for any piece of floor 100 gear you want. Lotting and passing dont actually matter, time remaining after you win isn't important, all that matters is getting the kill.


EDIT:
@Camate
Start the timer when people go to floor 1. It's weird that time starts when you enter, and not when you move to floor 1, that's the only change I would make. If you want to make the event slightly easier, I suggest not starting on floor 1, but having the first jump be a ??? jump. Or just add that and let the timer start when you zone in, either way would accomplish about the same thing, +1-2 minutes.

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Originally Posted by Camate

On a separate note, it seems like some players are finding the lamp floors to be the most troublesome. I would be happy to submit any suggestions you have for improving this aspect of Nyzul, so please list them out and I will talk to the development team about them.

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I think the delay after clearing the lamps floors is one big problem, they take to much time to activate the rune of transfer. I don't know if this is possibile, but if you can't shorten that delay, could you make at least an option for automatic "travel to the next floor" or "travel to ??? floor"? I mean setting preferences with the npc like for temporary items. Maybe that could be a good idea even for all floors, if you set floor 100 as goal you probably are going to select "travel to ??? floor" anyway.

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Originally Posted by Camate

On a separate note, it seems like some players are finding the lamp floors to be the most troublesome. I would be happy to submit any suggestions you have for improving this aspect of Nyzul, so please list them out and I will talk to the development team about them.

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Lamps are the primary reason I avoid Nyzul. No other part of content has gotten such a constant stream of misery and dread, and even the shear amount of ill will to whomever had the initial thought that led to them.

If lamps must stay, then they should only be "Activate all lamps at the same time" or "Each party member activates the same lamp." and the floor should indicate which.

Content doesn't have to be easy, but it has to be fun. As I've heard from researchers with extensive experience in the ruins, for years they couldn't find the power source of the lamps until one day a breakthrough came through that showed in no uncertain terms that lamps are powered by sucking out the hopes and dreams of those who try to light them.

The only thing I would like to see changed is the 15s lockout on lamps if you make a mistake and the 10s it takes to register success. The code lamps don't need it none of them should and it would save probably 2-3mins a run. Outside of this the event is fine, most groups once used to it should not be in the lobby more than 20s so I don't see that being a huge time saver. This change would make floor 80 a lot more realistic and floor 100 for the stronger groups a 1 in 100 chance instead of a 1 in 100000 chance.

As for making this an event so easy any group can make it to 100 all the time with little risk I don't hope for that simply because of how SE works. If that happened they would probably take away the ki that lets you choose a piece or remove the Alex from the event or even lower the stats on the gear "for balance".

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Originally Posted by Arcon

And I disagree with this. SE determines what's allowed and what isn't, but that bears no implication on what's right or wrong (or good or bad).

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Agreed; I did word it badly. They can not say what is right and what is wrong, but I what I meant was simply that as long as this is their game, we should play by their rules. I often put myself into the position of a game maintainer when I think about this kind of stuff, and how I would like people to play my game(s) (I've been a Gamemaster for some small games in the past, so that might be one indication of my nature when it comes to things like this).

There are things that are so obviously 'broken' in this game, that I can not understand why the developers would not want to fix them, and instead, kind of force the players who have no patience to take the law into their own hands, so to speak.

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Originally Posted by Arcon

That would imply that rules are perfect, but they very rarely are.

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They probably never are, so yeah, I do agree but the wording probably got me thinking what you said in a bit twisted way. I personally just don't think that there can ever be “good kind” of cheating. It is indeed the job for the company to fix stuff that require cheating so that it would simply become unneeded, or obsolete, as you mentioned, too.


I doubt we will ever see SqEX fix the issues that are the main cause for the issues issued here, in a tissue. They could be going somewhere with the User Interface change, but that is yet to be seen...

Blubb.


The words 'force' and 'require' are being used very loosely within this post.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Based on the above, though it might be more challenging to reach the higher floors, when you get there you will definitely be rewarded.

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I say make it harder. Everyone here complains about things being to easy, or everything being low-manable. Now that they have something harder that takes more ppl, they just sit around complaining about how hard it is.

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Originally Posted by Godofgods

I say make it harder. Everyone here complains about things being to easy, or everything being low-manable. Now that they have something harder that takes more ppl, they just sit around complaining about how hard it is.

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congratulations! This is the one stupid quote that will get translated for Tanaka & co. back in Japan. For this you win 1,000 rotten squid, a pack of dental floss, a car bed frame with a CB radio and a blanket made of cactus farts.

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Originally Posted by Camate

I’d like to put the two different Nyzul challenges into perspective a bit.

The original Nyzul was a lot easier to clear, but the drop rates were not very high. On top of the drop rate, you would only get one piece of equipment as well, which could possibly be something different than what you were after.

The new Nyzul might be a bit more difficult to reach floor 100, but if you are able to successfully get there and defeat the boss, each party member has a 100% guaranteed item, and what’s even better is that you can select the item of your choice.

Based on the above, though it might be more challenging to reach the higher floors, when you get there you will definitely be rewarded.

On a separate note, it seems like some players are finding the lamp floors to be the most troublesome. I would be happy to submit any suggestions you have for improving this aspect of Nyzul, so please list them out and I will talk to the development team about them.

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You're absolutely talking nonsense here. The 2 are so much different. One has progression and the other has ZERO progression. Your climb is resetted every single week. That makes the 2 absolutely different and cannot be compared. Let's have a look:

Old ways - you can pretty much FARM every single day after you climb there one time only. And with selectable floors, you can decide which pieces you farm on any given run. Each run is just a quick climb. As bad as drop rate as you and some others might make it out to be, it's nothing like VW or the old HNMs. All bosses are easy to handle even back in the old 75 days. Everyone in a static can get full gears within a very reasonable time frame. I dont think anyone in my static ever had to wait longer than 2 weeks (2x run per week for 8 tags total) for their desired pieces. [Even before the 100th disc that gets erased].

New ways - your chance of ever reaching 100th without using hacks/tools is like your chance of getting Toci off Pil [Side note: I'm >> 0/400+ and has stopped doing Pil altogether. I can get more ROI by selling Voiddusts/Cells then all the Logs/Ores that I just npc/drop]. It's purely on luck. There's absolutely no progression AT ALL what so ever. Yeah, there's a big shiny carrot at the end of this stick but with the crap of pure luck based system. Most people like me and my set who doesnt' want to trash the system by cheats has decided that our time is better served elsewhere then to slave over to 80 only from now until the end of summer just to get some of the pieces that we wanted.


And my big questions to you:

1. Have you been able to get to Floor 100th with any sort of consistency without the use of any 3rd party tools and hacks?

2. What are you and SE going to do about all the people who has openly admitted to be using Tools to win this event? Because SE and your silence to this is maddening. It also becomes a silence admittance of SE's acceptance on the use of these tools.

Frankly, I dont expect an answer from you or SE, but surprise me.

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Originally Posted by Dragoy

I personally just don't think that there can ever be “good kind” of cheating.

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I never meant to imply it that way. To rephrase it, let's call it the "harmless kind". The kind that doesn't alter the gameplay experience and that doesn't interact with other people in a negative way.

Arguably it could still be good for SE, because I'm sure that without some of these tools, quite a few people would not be playing their game anymore.

To clarify the most annoying thing about "Activate in a specific order" lamp floors is that once the lamps have been activated, there's about a 5-10 second window while the order is being checked to see if it's correct. So even through trial and error, if you've done the order correctly, you have to wait an excruciating 10 seconds to get the "Objective Complete" message, whereas on Register Lamp and Same Time Lamp floors, the "Objective Complete" message appears instantaneously.

To fix order lamp floors:

Maximum lamps should be lowered from 5 to 3 on these floors. The processing/calculating speed in which the order is verified as correct and an "Objective Complete" message appears needs to be DRASTICALLY reduced.

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Originally Posted by Godofgods

I say make it harder. Everyone here complains about things being to easy, or everything being low-manable.

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Not everyone. I'm not complaining at all about things being too easy or being done with low numbers. I'd rather have too easy than effectively impossible. If I had to choose, and I shouldn't have to, I'd rather be bored from winning everything than bored from feeling like I can't win at all.

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Originally Posted by Camate

I’d like to put the two different Nyzul challenges into perspective a bit.

The original Nyzul was a lot easier to clear, but the drop rates were not very high. On top of the drop rate, you would only get one piece of equipment as well, which could possibly be something different than what you were after.

The new Nyzul might be a bit more difficult to reach floor 100, but if you are able to successfully get there and defeat the boss, each party member has a 100% guaranteed item, and what’s even better is that you can select the item of your choice.

Based on the above, though it might be more challenging to reach the higher floors, when you get there you will definitely be rewarded.

On a separate note, it seems like some players are finding the lamp floors to be the most troublesome. I would be happy to submit any suggestions you have for improving this aspect of Nyzul, so please list them out and I will talk to the development team about them.

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1.) make 30 min time starts when entering the 1st floor, not the lobby (so ppl can buff and get their temps for the event)
2.) Reduce the Lamp delay... after finishing for example a "same time" there is like 5 sec where nothing happens.. remove that and make it like instant "floor cleared" when all lamps switched on in right way.
3.a) Rename Lamps - So anyone who finds it know whats up without klicking it.. 1 Name fore Code, one fore same time and Order Lamp 1, 2...
3.b) or/and remove order lamps.
4.) Stop timer while having the warp up Animation.. its only like 3-5 seconds, but those x 17 (lets say) thats like 1 floor.

If Devs would make those TECHNICAL changes to NN i think it would be great and make it a better event. Its not like it would change much on the randomness of the event, but it would cut away all those unnecceary wasted times (especially 1, 2 and 4)

Get a proper setup and win 50% of the time, how is that hard?... You all want 100% clears on an event designed not to let you get your wins every day. It would take a max of 15 days to get all 15 pieces. The gear is amazing, it shouldn't be given to us. The event is fine now. You are GUARENTEED a piece when you win 100...

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Originally Posted by Fupafighter

Get a proper setup and win 50% of the time, how is that hard?... You all want 100% clears on an event designed not to let you get your wins every day. It would take a max of 15 days to get all 15 pieces. The gear is amazing, it shouldn't be given to us. The event is fine now. You are GUARENTEED a piece when you win 100...

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You ain't getting 50% without .dat swapping or flee hacking.

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Originally Posted by Daniel_Hatcher

You ain't getting 50% without .dat swapping or flee hacking.

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Amazing groups can get 50% win rate without hacks, stop trolling and speaking nonsense just because you can't do it.

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Originally Posted by wish12oz

Amazing groups can get 50% win rate without hacks, stop trolling and speaking nonsense just because you can't do it.

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LOL your hilarious.

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Originally Posted by wish12oz

Amazing groups can get 50% win rate without hacks, stop trolling and speaking nonsense just because you can't do it.

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First of all, prove it. Second of all "amazing" groups are an aberration. Content shouldn't be created with exceptionally good or exceptionally bad players in mind. If Harry Hardcore finds it too easy, Durwood McDerpington III finds it too hard, and the majority of players finds it just right then you have a well balanced event. This isn't it.

You may just have to accept being in the "Too Good For Your Own Good" category. Congratulations for being there. Take some pride in that Just don't act like anything should revolve around your ability, or that someone who isn't as good as you is inferior to you. There's a big difference.