NEO Nyzul 2.0

[Arcon]

Wow, did this thread get derailed.. it's beautiful.

lol he says he wont troll n the very next line he calls me an idot. priceless lol

Insulting is not trolling, and his insult was quite fitting.

Justify it all you want. But in "reality" not following the rules is by default cheating.

No justification needed, using Windower is definitely cheating and no one's arguing that. But cheating isn't necessarily bad. There's a clear difference between (most of) the plugins Windower offers and flee/pos hacks or bots. Pretty much everything Windower has should have been in the game from day one. Without Windower most people wouldn't consider the game worth playing at all. And don't tell me that it is, because that is clearly your opinion, and you've shown everyone that your judgment cannot be trusted.

its funny though. You say you "out preform others" when in reality it is a program that plays the game for you that is so awesome.

This is yet another line that proves you have no clue what you're talking about. Windower does not do anything at all for you. It is not a bot and doesn't allow botting (unless used by very skilled people, and still only in a very limited way using timers, similar to the <wait> feature in macro lines). Windower is basically just a better user interface.

It's funny you're arguing about not knowing right from wrong but insist on following the rules blindly. A few hundred years ago slavery was legal. Does that make it right? As long as it's not illegal, you'd beat your wife? Is that your line of reasoning? If that's what your parents taught you, shame on them and shame of you for being so gullible to believe the bullshit they were feeding you.

Using Windower is neither good nor bad. There are people who use it who don't cheat at all, no plugins, just the ability to fix the game crash or prettier graphics. Are they bad? A tool doesn't make anyone bad, only how they use it. And Windower severely limits someone's ability to automate the game, even with AutoExec and SpellCast. The Windower team is actually quite vigilant about that, which is also why they don't tolerate any flee/pos hacks or similar programs. It all depends on where you draw the line. You obviously think everyone possessing a knife is a murderer, even if they use it for cooking. And if you feel comfortable with that line of thinking, good for you. But don't go telling others what right or wrong is, because you obviously don't have a hint of a clue on the subject.

Been playn for 8+ years and still only LV 1 lol

Judging by the intelligence of your posts it wouldn't surprise me.

[user201108211515]

"Pretty much everything Windower has should have been in the game from day one."

Says who? you? I didnt realise you were the game creator.

"A few hundred years ago slavery was legal. Does that make it right? As long as it's not illegal"

And look people complained and things were changed for the better. People didnt get a bot to make black people white and the problem was solved that way.. Do you think before you speak?

Another bad troll attempt from someone that thinks they have the best excuse for the use of cheats.

Nothing you can say will make the use of 3rd pt tools anything less then cheating. It is aginst the rules.

If you dont like the rules. Dont play or complain untill the rules are changed. But cheating and then acting like I'm the problem. You have reality issues as well.

You dont make the rules.

"Judging by the intelligence of your posts it wouldn't surprise me. "

I have to explain right n wrong to you yet you think you can question im intelligence. GL with that. You are more likely to wake up tomorrow with the skill to play this game with out cheating.

3rd pt tool users are a joke. You play on easy mode. You lack the skill to play the game by the rules.
Be mad about the truth, I'm sure it hurts. Make excuses all you want. It wont change anything.

[Arcon]

"Pretty much everything Windower has should have been in the game from day one."

Says who? you? I didnt realise you were the game creator.

Says the gaming standards across the board. Every game features most of these features now, and almost every game featured them back when FFXI was released.

"A few hundred years ago slavery was legal. Does that make it right? As long as it's not illegal"

And look people complained and things were changed for the better. People didnt get a bot to make black people white and the problem was solved that way.. Do you think before you speak?

Do you read before you reply? We are complaining. Or didn't you get what this entire thread was about? Also, the bot analogy is off, breaking the rules in that scenario would have been to integrate different races in social groupings.

Another bad troll attempt from someone that thinks they have the best excuse for the use of cheats.

Nothing you can say will make the use of 3rd pt tools anything less then cheating. It is aginst the rules.

Again, do you read before you reply? I stated bluntly that Windower is cheating and that no one is arguing otherwise. I'm not and I never was. I'm saying that cheating isn't necessarily bad. There are different stages of cheating. There are cheats of convenience, cheats for your own profit and lastly cheats at the expense of others. Windower falls into the first two categories. There is no flee/claim botting possible with Windower, so no one else suffers from other people using it. The fact that you're upset about it is evidence that the only thing hurting in your context is your ego.

[Nala]

Wow... i don't even... i mean... what? how's this for you, i've played on console up untill the last year and am among the few people who even understands how to fully utilize the /macro set command to legally "expand" gear swap macros (or macros in general)

I recently made a switch to windower, mostly for the improved graphics and the ability to KNOW how far i am from mobs, even without windower macros i can (and with some jobs i still do) swap out 15 pieces of gear in seconds (triple tapping the same macro chaining via /macro set x) but honestly this process was cumbersome, and if i made errors it could lower my efficiency, only thing windower macros do for me is eliminate that potential of error.

Also you have no pride in your own character if you can't post as yourself, i care not to hide, i take responsibility and ownership of my opinion, as such the character you see posting is who i play as, you on the other hand dare to mask yourself while demeaning others for lacking that which you are most devoid of.

Finish graduating high school before you come onto a forum and hormone rage at everyone else.

[user201108211515]

As if it would make you feel better to know all the gear I have. I dont need to show off to win an arguement about what I know is right. But do feel free to use that over and over as a way to make your self feel better.

I get it i really do people are tryn to say that cheating isnt so black and white. that some how you all are special and live in some grey area where rules and morles dont apply to you. some could say.. no where in reality.. but online where its ok to act like a scum bag and cheat at a kids game with out fear of bad karma.

And a special shout out to the grammar police. Gotta love em. when they cant win the arguement.. time to nip pick your spelling. That will prove how you are right and I'm so wrong. As if everyone on the planet has english as a main language.

[Dragoy]

I'm saying that cheating isn't necessarily bad. There are different stages of cheating. There are cheats of convenience, cheats for your own profit and lastly cheats at the expense of others.

Your posts usually are such that could be mine, but with this part I do disagree. While I probably understand your point and your view, it's not how it works. SqEX determines what is good and what is bad, more and less loosely in the User Agreement and Terms of Service.

Sure, there are levels to it, like, modifying the files of the game, or using something that simply 'parses' the data the game already provides. It's not about which is more bad than the other, it's just not allowed and that is it.

SqEX is more at fault than any player here though, really...


Just my thoughts~

I get it i really do people are tryn to say that cheating isnt so black and white. that some how you all are special and live in some grey area where rules and morles dont apply to you.

Funny that you mentioned grey areas, as I used that in my initial reply here, but I accidentally closed that tab so blubb...

[Demon6324236]

3rd pt tool users are a joke. You play on easy mode. You lack the skill to play the game by the rules.

Your right, I'm a shitty player, I suck at FFXI because I think instead of having to hit 2~3 macros to do something, I want to be able to only hit 1 macro. I show that I have so little skill in playing this game because of this. Technology does not prevent them from from making it only 1 macro, as fans, with our lesser knowledge, have been able to do just that... But ok, I'm done fighting with you, I play on both the 360 & PC, I know and understand what you have with the consoles, and what your missing, you don't it seems because you think Windower is bad. If next update they said they were giving us 16 rows a macro, you would shutup and be happy. We make due with what we have, simple as that, don't like it, goto PC and do the same. I don't care what you say, you can not call someones "skill" into question because they don't want to waste time hitting more buttons for a game to do the same thing. You play inefficiently, I cant blame you, your on a console, its how they are built, but you cant say people suck because they want to play the game in a way that works better just because the devs choose not to change it.

Let me give you one last parting gift as an example of their ignorance to change things though, this is a post I made in the Tanking area, in a thread about fixing tanking for PLD.

SE will not adjust enmity caps and they have already said they have no plans to adjust that.

End of the thread is here, because this means SE already said...

PLD is a job we no longer care to have used in content we create, as such, your enmity is fucked up, and shall remain as such. We are sorry to all PLDs out there who disagree with this, but we just don't care about your job anymore, or any idea of tanking, we would rather everything be a bunch of zergs and weakness procing. That is all.

So there you have it people, PLD is screwed, its use has been lived out and shall not be brought back due to SE not wanting to change their amazing Enmity system/cap that was flawed since we got our level cap higher than 75...

As it was said before, Enmity has been broken a long time, so tell me, why is it they are so ignorant they can not bother to change a flawed system that has no use anymore? It has made tanking die completely in this game. The reason is simple, SE does not want to fix their problems, they will give us new things, and they will leave us with the old problems. I would love to watch your attempt to tell me we fans have no right to say SE is wrong, and the Enmity system is fine how it is, just because of the stupidity needed to make that claim.

[Arcon]

Your posts usually are such that could be mine, but with this part I do disagree. While I probably understand your point and your view, it's not how it works. SqEX determines what is good and what is bad, more and less loosely in the User Agreement and Terms of Service.

And I disagree with this. SE determines what's allowed and what isn't, but that bears no implication on what's right or wrong (or good or bad). That would imply that rules are perfect, but they very rarely are. Rules are designed for a reason, and people usually like to assume that it's for a good cause. However, the rules were set up by normal humans. Whoever thought of it at SE headquarters wasn't infallible. Third party tools are banned, but why? Why do other games allow them freely? SE thinks it's a good way to prevent botting/hacking, but nothing could be further from the truth. Hacks and bots have a much easier timer working around the rules and restrictions than normal humans have, hence it's just making it easier for the people abusing such exploits, while regular players suffer.

The real way to approach this would be to address the actual problems, not the means people employ to exploit them. One very right thing they did was randomize the claim timer on spawn. While that alone was not enough to stop the botting, it made it a lot harder for most of them (even rendered some of them ineffective), while giving casual players a fighting chance.

Similar to this, they shouldn't flat out ban third party applications when trying to get rid of flee/pos hacks. There's some semi-easy way to find out if someone is hacking positions or increase their movement speed that they could employ in most cases. Instead they discourage an entire market that many other games employ to strengthen the game's community. Which still wouldn't be too bad, if they were able/willing to implement these changes themselves.

Again, for the slowpoke above:
No one disagrees on the fact that Windower is against the rules. It even says so on the Windower main page. People don't have a problem with being called cheaters, people have a problem with the rules themselves. And they are complaining. They have been for almost a decade now and some things still aren't fixed. People will keep informing SE of things to change, and I for one hope that one day Windower will be completely obsolete. But in the meantime, most will use whatever tools they have available to make the game more enjoyable to them.

[user201108211515]

Sure I can. You cheat at a game. How can we cant call your skill into question. Babe ruth was never taken to court for cheating. So no one can argue his greatness. But barry bonds cheated at a game and got cought and will forever be a joke. But I'm glad to be done arguing with you barry. Your denial of reality is very tiring. If tomorrow SE did give us 16 line macros that still wouldnt chage the fact that people are hacking to win at NNI.

You fail to ever make a point that some how says its ok for you to cheat cauz you say the rules dont apply to you. Again that is your issue with reality.

The enm topic is something you might want to take to pld forums where people might care. Get a thread going, complain, get others to complain. I never said SE makes good decisions.. Actually I dont like 90% of what SE has done to help ruin this game. But I cant do anything about it my self. I have to get other people to complain as well.

I play by the rules. For 8+ years I have watched as cheaters get everything handed to them and SE rarely if ever did anything about it. So no. you are mistaking me for someone else. I feel SE is just as much to blame for allowing people to cheat as the cheaters them selves. It shouldnt have taken 7ish years to fix HNM but it did. Does it anoy me sure.. but its been changed so that no longer can PC players prevent honest players at a chance to play by the rules.

That is all we want for NNI a chance to play by the rules. But no one wants to go unless the hacks are there too. So our options are to never go or get hacks of our own and that is not fair. So how else can we weed out the bad eggs?

[user201108211515]

Just because you dont like the rules does not mean you can break the rules.

Just because you complain and it is not changed right this instand if ever.. does not mean you can just break the rules.

If you dont like the rules then dont play. Go play a game that you agree with the rules.

You act as if you ca just change the rules of life as you see fit. You going to start muging people because you dont want to go to work anymore? I mean where do you draw the line? When are you held to a higher standard in life? Where rules apply to you. Or was I missinformed and the universe does infact revolve arround you. Get real. Get with reality.