Why should anyone bother with higher level monsters in old zones when Abyssea provides skill ups (even past 90), EXP, Cruor (gil, demi god tool if wanted), and random NPCable items?Quote:
Originally Posted by Aldersyde
I have to agree with this, also it only further pushes my belief that SE is stringing FFXI along until FFXIV is ready and then will kill off FFXI in hopes everyone shifts over to FFXIV.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellith
PS2 limitations and in turn coding created for the PS2 are the only major factors that make FFXI a bad investment, so if those aren't actual factors...
Why Cant Final fantasy 11 get the same treatment?
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11-02-2011, 08:35 AMZagen
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11-02-2011, 08:48 AMMorier
If they are too dumb to check mobs they are around, they deserve to die.
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11-02-2011, 08:53 AMXellithyea because you want to run around the game /checking every single monster that you are going to run past. Get real.Quote:
Originally Posted by Morier
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11-02-2011, 08:55 AMSevokevoQuote:
Originally Posted by Camate
WOW dude... That is some news... But what new areas are we talking about? New new areas or just reskin areas? -
11-02-2011, 09:00 AMXellithGreat News Everybody!Quote:
Originally Posted by Sevokevo
http://hollywoodhatesme.files.wordpr...farnsworth.jpg
Your moblin maze monger zones will be ready soon! -
11-02-2011, 09:08 AMJuilanThe one needs a new pumpkin head, or maybe an elf hat :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Camate
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11-02-2011, 01:02 PMAldersydeWell damn, if that's your line of thinking, why complain about new zones at all when Abyssea supplies everything you want already? I'd rather the dev team focus on creating good battle content and end game events than new zones that look pretty and will be used for a mission or two, then be chronically underused the rest of the time; you know, like how WOTG and TOAU areas are today.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zagen
Modifying old zones doesn't just mean exp and gil farming. -
11-02-2011, 01:28 PMZagenAnd other players would prefer new zones and/or stories/quests/missions to go with those new zones. Different people want different things.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aldersyde
You know what would be awesome a new zone or a couple of zones that contains new quests/missions involving it, as well as new NMs. Think the next sky or sea. This would make explorers happy and people like you looking for "good battle content and end game events" happy. Too bad this isn't what SE sees as a priority.
What other reason is there to kill higher level mobs? When they're just higher level versions of old mobs there is nothing new about them to explore. Keep in mind I'm talking about higher level trash mobs they've added to old zones which don't actually apply as "good battle content" at least I don't find fighting a higher level version of a given mob with 0 new abilities as good battle content.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aldersyde
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11-02-2011, 02:06 PMSparthos
Beaucidine Glacier (F)
F for Future! -
11-02-2011, 02:54 PMJuri_Licious
Abyssea Caedarva Mire
White Gate {S} (The war that took place 200 years ago) -
11-02-2011, 11:36 PMsaevelCamate are their any plans, even long term ones, about redoing the graphics engine for PC clients? As it stands it's currently using DirectX 8.1 and rendering to a single flat surface, this creates graphics issues on any PC made in the past three to four years. Doesn't even need to be something like DX10/11, a simple DX9 remake would suffice.Quote:
Originally Posted by Camate
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11-02-2011, 11:46 PMDreamin
New areas = more levels in Nyzul Isle Investigation. They going to just add more levels and throw in some currency in there and called that content.
With the crap drop rate of anything but logs/ores, most people that I know are already tired of VW's and WoE's. This ain't 2005 anymore, SE, people no longer wish to go back to the old ground kings/sky/sea day of slaving away weeks/months on end for that extreme low drop rate of decent armors. (I know people who are well over 0/30+ on Celaeno with full lights on everyrun). -
11-03-2011, 12:28 AMLojinxxyou people are ridiculousYes there is and I wouldn't call it neglect.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellith
Most of you are either crazy or just have such a boring work day that you resort to unnecessary forum drama. An open discussion about revamps to the game is understandable. I'd love to see updated graphics or even just HD texture packs or whatever, but for people to come on here and put down SE saying the game is dying and that it needs to be torn apart and rebuilt is just nonsense. It's laughable. Most of you talk as though you work at the company saying "SE thinks this" or "SE knows that" . It's almost as if some of you think you actually have a slight idea as to how they'll approach things or what their ideas for the future are, but I'm sure you don't know any more than what we all know through announcements. All I've really ever heard in the form of official announcements is them thanking us for being with them so long and that they hope to support the game for years to come lol.
I think the big point that both sides of the argument in this thread are missing is that you're all the minority! There's only a handful of you on this forum bitching and moaning about a "dead game" while hundreds of thousands(I don't even know the number I just know it's way more than you guys lol) of people are playing the game and loving it. Sometimes things get monotonous, but they always implement something new. And if it takes them a little longer than we hope to implement, take a freaking break from the game and live a little, or better yet, help your friends or other people who weren't as fortunate as you to achieve their goals in-game while yours are all attained. So please, quit your whining people or stop playing the game. But you won't stop playing becuase you enjoy the game, you just enjoy complaining a little bit more. I only saw this thread through Guildwork because of the developer saying they'll be releasing new areas or whatever, otherwise I don't associate with whine asses, but I thought I'd stop over and put you all in your place real quick.
Dear SE,
Don't mind these people. They don't have anything better to do than belittle anything that doesn't go their way. Although I'd love to see some graphics upgrades, I'm really not fond of jumping around or swimming. I don't want new formulas and game mechanics; the ones we have now are pretty kickass.(note I said pretty and not absolutely) Nobody is perfect, but SE comes pretty damn close with FFXI imo.
Thanks SE for all the good times you've provided and will continue to provide.
You(and let me make it clear that when i say "you" i mean all the people with no appreciation whatsoever for the game this company has provided) can all feel dumb now. kthxbye -
11-03-2011, 12:38 AMcidbahamut
The moment the playerbase becomes complacent is the moment the game dies.
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11-03-2011, 01:32 AMJovialRatWould it be possible to give us a list of what the PS2 is limiting what Vana diel can be?Quote:
Originally Posted by Camate
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11-03-2011, 01:43 AMZiyyigo-Tipyigo
I would wager the license they have with Sony to publish the game for the PS2 doesn't allow them to talk about what the limitations are, either to enforce non-competitiveness or to hinder reverse-engineering.
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11-03-2011, 02:00 AMElexiaPlease answer this:Quote:
Originally Posted by Alhanelem
Why would we need new areas, with absolutely no story relation nor logical reason to exist for the sole purpose of new monsters to grind on?
It can't be said "well they can add content to it in the future!" Since that's the purpose of making new areas in the first place, for said content lol. Think of it like this: We have Vanilla and Zilart zones, they raised the cap to 75, then they introduced the CoP areas for the sole purpose of Grinding XP then 7 months later, we get the first CoP story arc attached to the new zones.
Not as good of an addition then, huh?
Common sense?Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellith
One requires development on even an engine level.
One requires just content addition.
Which requires, or needs, the bigger development team?
Unless of course your post was sarcastic. -
11-03-2011, 02:01 AMLusoJust because not many people post on here regarding the current discussions regarding a game overhaul/graphics does not mean that the ones currently posting are the only ones supporting it. They're just the ones that actually have the mindset to talk about instead of waiting around for someone else to do the talking for them. Now and again that person will draw some criticism from people but any amount is fine because they wouldn't have even known if people weren't for such an upgrade if they had stayed silent. And who knows? Maybe the interest and discussions involving this subject will spark something in SE's plan for XI. Maybe it won't; the point is, SE cannot read our minds; we have to be vocal in what we want or hope for. I'm not on the side of those who think that they know how SE's business works, but I am on the side that wants something done (this includes a message from SE regarding any future upgrades, if even at all).Quote:
Originally Posted by Lojinxx
I don't think THAT many people are actually very serious about wanting flying mounts or jumping around, despite a recent thread stating an interest in the former. Also, the fact that you're saying you don't want new formulas or game mechanics means you aren't interested in whatever the new dungeon crawling and "The Last Stand" have to offer, at least, that's what I'm drawing from this. You don't know if they'll change anything regarding game mechanics, so don't assume things just yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lojinxx
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11-03-2011, 02:24 AMcidbahamutYes, FFXI's DirectX wrapper is quickly approaching obsolescence as the version of DirectX it currently uses is slated to be dropped from the backwards compatibility features in future operating systems.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elexia
Ineed, FFXIV could use a hearty helping of additional content.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elexia
FFXI clearly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elexia
Oh wait, that's not at all the conclusion you intended people to draw is it? -
11-03-2011, 02:36 AMFrankReynoldsYou should post this over in the FFXIV forums. The people posting here pay for this game, and obviously care about and appreciate the game. That is why we are debating it's future. FFXI is not free. We have a right to ask for our paid service to be kept fresh and modern.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lojinxx
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11-03-2011, 02:47 AMSinisterThen knowing this, can voice chat be put in or offered as a 'paid feature'? For people that run event linkshells that sometimes typing can be a hinder in mid game play. Considering both PC & PS2 can support this and the idea PS2 is not a limit or set back based on your statement Camate, could this be added in the future? Granted event linkshells have found work around to this simple problem but as i almost playing for as long as the game been around since NA release, almost 8yrs. Do you think you can find out why this has not been added yet as of date? mainly lets say reserved for LS chat only or again, a paid feature that a LS Leader would have to opt-in for per LS. My first post ever on here so look forward to your timely reply.Quote:
Originally Posted by Camate
Thanks. -
11-03-2011, 03:34 AMSesh
Don't hold your breath, they only reply if it's an auto-translate from the JP forum, or they'll stick some random info in a forum that is somewhat close on topic to the message they want to give. The only exception is a thread like this where people are frustrated, then we are graced with a vague response like the one above, that only raises more questions than it answers.
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11-03-2011, 05:24 AMSpero
Camate,is there a chance for ffxi, to be ps3 compatable in the near future?
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11-03-2011, 06:14 AMSevokevoROFL Nice one there. :PQuote:
Originally Posted by Xellith
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11-03-2011, 08:57 AMMoonracerI believe partly that what Camate means by this is the new Dungeon crawl type endgame element thats mentioned in the "Final Fantasy XI Roadmap". If the pics for it serve as any basis, its certainly something i have yet to see in FFXI as of this point. (Honestly, it looks like it has something to do with the 5 crystals of Vana'diel, but thats imo). It is well within the scope for them to make new areas. Perhaps its not quite another parallel world, or some new unexplored continent, or a fully developed expansion, but if you think about it, each expansion has added maybe only a couple of new areas. Until a full blown expansion, i would not see the need for a slew of new areas.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zagen
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11-04-2011, 04:06 AMCapriciousOneactually I do especially in new areas i'm not familiar or old areas I dont frequent often and especially if i hadn't been around for a while, that is just common sense but I guess you dont have any of that huh? Apparently neither do they if they think this is a game to run around blindly hacking and slashing. This isn't Devil May Cry or Resistance. I guess it would be safe to say neither you nor them ever heard the saying "Look before you leap" either. At this point of playing though I pretty much know most of the zones and where the mobs are because I routinely make it my business to know when I hear the word "redistribution"Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellith
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11-04-2011, 06:16 AMAlhanelemThing is, these are not new areas, and not all of them are so rarely visited that people would forget what they're like.Quote:
I do especially in new areas i'm not familiar
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11-04-2011, 11:05 AMCatsby
The number of deadend zones in this game is kinda saddening.
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11-04-2011, 06:47 PMAselinI do believe you are contradicting yourself, especially if you are representing Square-Enix on the official forums. This goes against everything Square-Enix has said in the past especially regarding "PS2 limitations."Quote:
Originally Posted by Camate
You have to remember that Square-Enix along with the previous FFXI director said the following during a previous Fanfest/game convention (e.g. E3, etc.)/interview:- Square-Enix decided not to update the graphics engine to DirectX 9 from DirectX 8 prior to Wings of the Goddess release. This is the one of the many signs that Square-Enix is back-pedaling from promises to add changes to the game. DirectX 8 is already proving to be a problem with newer systems. There are noticeable graphical issues present in both Nvidia and AMD graphics card-based systems under Windows Vista and Windows 7 because they use DirectX 10/11 and soon DirectX 12.1 (Windows 8). These vary from texture flickering, disjointed textures, and other graphical glitches.
Windows XP displays little to no issues since it still uses DirectX 9. DirectX 10 and 11 are much different architecturally than DirectX 9 and earlier. It also deprecates DirectSound and especially DirectInput. Why DirectInput? As said in Wikipedia:This has caused issues with using the Xbox 360 controller where the trigger buttons (LT and RT) do not function. Vibration does not work properly. Some players, such as my friend, have to resort to third party software and drivers to get full functionality out of the 360 controller. It is up to the developer of the application and the game to add support for this. Seeing as the game has not been updated from DirectX 8, this will not be fixed.Quote:
Microsoft recommends that new applications make use of the Windows message loop for keyboard and mouse input instead of DirectInput... and to use XInput instead of DirectInput for Xbox 360 controllers...
Microsoft has not made any major changes to DirectInput since DirectX 8, and introduced XInput later in DirectX 9...
An Xbox 360 Controller with the default Microsoft driver with DirectInput has the following limitations compared to with XInput:
- the left and right triggers will act as a single axis representing the signed difference between the triggers, not as independent analog axes
- vibration effects will not operate
- querying for headset devices will not operate
- As for the dated graphics of FFXI, SE stated themselves that they wish to keep the PC and 360 version the same as the PS2 version. SE didn't want to do anything that would make both versions of the game different from each other. This is called laziness and unwillingness to do anything with the game because it would be too much work to upgrade one version of the game.
- Square-Enix has said it themselves that any resources upgrading or expanding FFXI would be better spent on making another game. We got Final Fantasy XIV which, after over a year, isn't feature complete. It isn't until version 2.0 that FFXIV will finally get a new graphics engine. What does that say about Square-Enix regarding adding new areas?
- Square-Enix has taken half the FFXI team to work on FFXIV. It unfortunately backfired when FFXIV was released unfinished and broken last September 2010, with many concerns voiced during Beta not being addressed at launch. Square-Enix has again taken more people off FFXI to work on FFXIV.
Everything I mentioned above seems to me that Square-Enix does indeed acknowledge in some form or another that there is a "Playstation 2" limitation. And, I am very sure Square-Enix knows that there is only so much you can do to expand FFXI at this point without using programming tricks or recycling/re-texturing previous graphics assets.
There are players who know there is a limit to the maximum accessible space in this game already. 80 for inventory. 80 for secondary inventory that can be opened simultaneously (Sack, Storage, Satchel, Mog Safe). And, a single space for Gil. That's 161 total spaces that can be opened simultaneously at any one time. Compare this to FFXIV. It has a higher number of inventory space compared to FFXI. This is a very obvious example that there is a limitation caused by allowing the game to be one-to-one (1:1) feature parity with the Playstation 2. 32 MB of RAM on the PS2 compared to 256 MB on the PS3 and a much larger amount for the PC.
There are players who already know there is a limit to the number of Delivery Box items that can be held in there.
There are players that know that re-texturing and re-skinning armor, monsters, and environments doesn't save space. Case in point this very good blog explaining it: http://parchmentpaper.blogspot.com/2011/03/explaining-why-reskinned-graphics-dont.html
There are also certain players who know and believe that there is a hard limit of approximately 10 GB on the PS2 hard disk out of its 40 GB maximum size. This hard limit can only be expanded under express approval of Sony because of the DNAS security check that the Playstation 2 and FFXI must abide to. Remember: DNAS is a hardware and software security check done to be sure that the game AND system isn't modified, that players aren't cheating, and that the game remains within its pre-specified limits and hardware usage.
It has already become very evident that the past several releases, the so-called add-ons, have been very small. The upcoming "new area" may also be a small addition to the game, but not a full-blown expansion. On the PC, the game stands just above or near 10 GB in size. So, the belief that there is a hard limit set on FFXI's partition on the PS2's hard disk becomes more believable.
You also have to realize that when comparing Square-Enix to other MMO game developers, other game developers have been willing to expand their game long after it has been released.
Sony Online Entertainment (SOE) continues development for both Everquest and Everquest II. Everquest II has also received a graphics engine update several years ago. Both games also get new expansions and areas, and EQII has ten expansions to its name.
CCP Games with EVE Online updated the graphics engine in 2007, four years after its release in May 2003. And, that is about five years after FFXI's release on the Playstation 2 and PC in Japan. The graphics engine was updated from DirectX 8 to DirectX 9. CCP also continues to update the game each year. And, get this: one of CCP's parent owners has $1.6 billion in assets. This is about the same amount of revenue earned by Square-Enix last fiscal year. CCP plans to update the ship models in a future update, a so called "V3" (for version 3) ships update. (Version 2 was from Trinity.)
Let's not forget Blizzard Entertainment with World of Warcraft. The game received a minor graphics update several years ago. They also plan on upgrading the character models in the future. Even the game is almost as old as Final Fantasy XI but continues to get expansions and new areas.
Now, they may or may not be good examples, but they are the best examples of game developers willing to not let their projects and games stagnate. (For WoW, I digress given recent criticisms regarding Mists of Pandaria...)
However, what makes myself or any other player believe what you say?
There are still fixes to be made to the game outside graphical issues. How about the Playstation 2 version of FFXI? I have had several friends in the game playing on the PS2 suffer from black screens, disc read errors, and game crashes in certain areas that have not been fixed yet. This can also be attributed to the fact that the PS2 is an aging system. You can fix a junk car only so much before you can junk it. Now, there are players who probably have no issue at all. However, when you think about the fact that there are no more PS3 systems with backwards PS2 compatibility being manufactured anymore, a game developer must step back and think about what must be done to fix current issues on an aging system. How much longer can you support the PS2 when Sony stops the DNAS servers and moves on?
Can you still say with a straight and honest face that there is no Playstation 2 limitation and that it is not a factor in adding new areas?
The game world, Vana'diel, is considered approximately 25% complete according to the team behind FFXI. Any guarantee we will be seeing the other areas to the game?
Will there be a guarantee from Square-Enix to provide needed fixes to the game as well as upgrades to FFXI?
Also, is it worth the calculated risk to spend all the resources on FFXIV which probably has much less concurrent players than FFXI? Are you willing to stagnate one game to improve another?
Is it even worth it for Square-Enix to even expend more resources to develop a third MMO that is to be announced on the next fiscal year in March 2012?
Maybe someone from Square-Enix can answer them directly instead of a Community Representative. - Square-Enix decided not to update the graphics engine to DirectX 9 from DirectX 8 prior to Wings of the Goddess release. This is the one of the many signs that Square-Enix is back-pedaling from promises to add changes to the game. DirectX 8 is already proving to be a problem with newer systems. There are noticeable graphical issues present in both Nvidia and AMD graphics card-based systems under Windows Vista and Windows 7 because they use DirectX 10/11 and soon DirectX 12.1 (Windows 8). These vary from texture flickering, disjointed textures, and other graphical glitches.
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11-04-2011, 09:10 PMBuffy
Aselin,
Stop talking. -
11-04-2011, 09:27 PMAikagi
From a very old interview found http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/story.html?story=10045
What are the current PS2 limitations to the dev team?Quote:
Tanaka-san: As to where it will be in five years, we can’t really predict as it’s a long time. One of the things is as the game is based on PS2 technology, there are limits and right now we’re doing our best to get around those limits and make the best with what we have. On the other hand we also have the new MMO that’s being developed at the same time by the same team and how those two will be related will also deal with what the other players want but it all comes down to the user. If the user wants to keep playing Final Fantasy 11 we will keep producing content for it.
This interview was back in 2007, so the five years in this interview is almost up! Where does the dev team see FFXI in the next five years? -
11-04-2011, 10:44 PMGreatguardian
Camate never said PS2 limitations didn't exist.
He just said that they weren't preventing the addition of new zones.
Anyone with half a brain or any knowledge of programming whatsoever already knew that.
Reskins are reskins because it requires less time/effort/manpower/money to reskin a zone than to design a completely new one, not because the PS2 "can't handle new ones". Reskinned zones take up just as much memory as a completely new zone.
Ps2 limitations exist. This is not one of them. Christ, read for comprehension people. -
11-04-2011, 11:01 PMAikagiThis I understand, but people throw "PS2 limitations" around for everything. I'd like to know what the real limitations are... from the actual dev-team.Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatguardian
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11-04-2011, 11:18 PMGreatguardian
People will always throw around "PS2 limitations" for everything, just like players who are out-claimed will always accuse the other group of botting. Good luck getting a Dev response on that though, I mean that.
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11-04-2011, 11:27 PMAikagilol, I've been around long enough to know how annoyingly non-responsive the dev team is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatguardian
It's only because of my masochistic hope that maybe, one day, they'll respond do I even ask. -
11-05-2011, 12:24 AMZagenI just wanted to point out/clarify reskins use the same temp/loaded memory but not the same amount of hard drive space as a new zone. Assuming SE isn't doing some weird crap with the way models are handled.Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatguardian
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11-05-2011, 12:30 AMGreatguardianThe limiting factor on zone creation wasn't really hard drive space to begin with, but rather the zone index which had a "Maximum" number of zones that could be added to the game. Reskinned zones are still separate zones on that index, which is the crux of what people freak out about when they hear "PS2 is going to limit the number of zones we can have". A lot of reskinned zones have new/different models as well, eg the Abyssea and Shadowreign areas.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zagen
Even if they filled up the index though, it's easy enough to just add a bit, adjust zone IDs, and have a larger capacity. That's what I was driving at. -
11-05-2011, 12:47 AMZagenAh didn't get that from the initial post, figured I'd clarify before someone took it out of context :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Greatguardian
I don't know what the hard drive space on the PS2 looks like post clean up but I agree the index would likely be reached before the hard drive space is reached even with completely new zones. That said if they did expand/create a new zone index (assuming the PS2 didn't freak out) I would think the drive space would become a factor over the new ID limit at that point assuming completely new zones.
So much info I'd love to know, so I know what to potentially expect out of FFXI T_T -
11-05-2011, 11:34 AMCatsbyGuild Wars 2.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aselin
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11-05-2011, 09:22 PMLaraulThe developers NEVER said the PS2 limited the game. It's always been the player base putting words in their mouths. Just as you have now... in fact you put a lot words in a lot of mouths...Quote:
Originally Posted by Aselin
Here I have some questions that YOU should ask yourself. When Microsoft designed Xinput... why did they design it in such a way to make it incompatible with directinput?
How does an OS that uses "D3D 10/11" cause "graphical issues" for "D3D 8" games but not "D3D 9" games. Wouldn't they show up in D3D 9 games as well? And what "graphical issues" are you referring too?
How would removing people trying to "fix" a game you claim is "broken" to go work on a ten year old game many people say works pretty well but is reaching the end of it's development lifespan help anyone? Besides you at least.
Did you know that the POL client actually uses D3D9? You didn't? What a surprise... I wonder what else you don't know...