Learn to read. No where did I say I made fun of him nor did I make fun of him. I said many of the players in pick up alliances make no effort whatsoever to be anything that could be considered slightly acceptable. I'm sorry but a SAM or any job for that matter with 0% haste is not acceptable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Akujima
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05-20-2011, 06:04 AMKazen
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05-20-2011, 06:52 AMAliekberThat's true. XP below 50 has never really been that bad, though (maybe pre-Zilart, I wouldn't know) due to the small TNLs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Leonlionheart
They could add Rajas-style gear drops to GoV to make it easier to stay geared through rapid level increases. Example:
Valorious Lance
DMG: 50~80
Delay: 492
DRG Lv. 30
Have it add 5 base damage for every 5 levels past 30, capping at 80 damage at level 60. Wouldn't be quite as good as using top-of-the-line gear for each level, but helps for times when your level has increased drastically, or for level-syncing.
The 60-75 grind outside Abyssea is the worst, and it would really help if Campaign was targeted at this demographic instead of higher-level players (and had skillups), and the XP rewards were more in line with those of Bastion. It would be better for everyone than nerfing Abyssea. -
05-20-2011, 07:13 AMAkujima
I think anything they add for outside of Abyssea, won't sway the player base that's dead set on leeching all 20 jobs to 90 (and 99 when the time comes). Any improvements to area's outside of Abyssea will be regarded by them as "useless and a waste of the developers time" to implement.
EXP'ing as you get to higher levels always becomes slower. It's always been like that and always should be. The problem people are having 60~75, is that people around those levels are already starting to find ways how they can get inside Abyssea, which leaves fewer and fewer people to PT with as your Level rises. Most people I see that are Lv60+ will have /seacoms filled with "Abyssea Only" and "Level Sync, No Thanks".
I don't really see much more of a solution other than raising the LvCap of Abyssea. In fact, not raising the cap and adding more content that tries to appeal to people to EXP/LvUp outside of Abyssea IS a waste of the Dev Team's time, because people already know that Abyssea will still skyrocket them towards 90, and It won't stop them from taking the easiest route possible.
The fastest way from Point A to Point B is always a straight line. Abyssea is the straightest line there is, so if you don't offer up anything that surpasses Abyssea, people simply won't bite. -
05-20-2011, 07:24 AMNeisan_Quetz
Raising the Level cap of Abyssea won't solve what you think it will and isn't the 'only solution'. Stop being so dramatic, increasing exp outside of Abyssea isn't a waste of time - it's just arguable they didn't increase it enough to be seen as competitive, but that's impossible anyway except potentially versus scars areas, but even there you can still get exp chests.
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05-20-2011, 07:28 AMOlorExcept it doesn't. That is what makes 60-75 the worst - because it is actually the slowest part unless you leech. Post 75 - you can contribute in some zones (at the very least) and it takes WAY less time to level.Quote:
Originally Posted by Akujima
Fix campaign exp and add skill ups and tons of people from 60-75 (and people trying to cap their skills who also want to get some of the bonuses from campaign points/do the WotG storyline) would participate. -
05-20-2011, 07:34 AMAliekber
All they need to do is make it so the effort of XPing outside of Abyssea at mid-level is less than the effort of setting up an Abyssea alliance/begging a leech spot, and has XP return in the same league. Believe it or not, it's not a walk-in-the-park getting a leech spot unless you or a friend of yours built the alliance specifically for that purpose. It's only easy to get leech spots when the level cap increases and everyone wants to level their mains.
Short version: you don't have to surpass Abyssea XP to get mid-level people to turn to alternatives--appealing to people's laziness will usually win over appealing to their desire for efficiency given similar returns. -
05-20-2011, 07:35 AMhome20
Don't see the issue here. If you want to level in the old fashion, get a static group together and have at it. Otherwise, leave those level 30 drgs alone. Why does it bother you how others play the game? Especially since most people being leeched to 90 have multiple 90s already, this game is very easy to play at high levels no matter what the job, and whether or not abyssea exists would have no influence on how many bad players reach 90.
Pre-abyssea exp was awful and boring except for specific zones, qufim island worms, and colibri. That wasn't fun, and the only thing I learned was how bad people can be at the game.
This game is 9 years old, end game is where the content is, and where it should be now. -
05-20-2011, 07:40 AMLeonlionheart
Increasing the rewards of MMM by doubling the XP there is a quick fix and would probably surpass even abyssea leeching in terms of speed with the correct party setups. Problem is party setups are similar to 75 meripos, meaning 75% of the jobs will be left out.
But again, you can't just increase exp rate outside without changing gear because the cost of buying gear for less than 30min of use will be quite horrible.
Gear is a huge factor in all of this, its easier to equip dinner gear and not anything else till perle/aurore/teal -
05-20-2011, 07:49 AMbungiefanYou can, just take a weak GKT to Castle Zvahl (S) and fight Zvahl Fortalices for a few hours. You'll max out your skill within a dozen kills. At least to level 82 skill caps.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aliekber
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05-20-2011, 09:00 AMAkujimaI'm talking about MMO's and RPG's in general.Quote:
Originally Posted by Olor
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05-20-2011, 09:25 AMLeonlionheart
Soooo... let's boil it down.
Group 1: "I want to level outside"
-Leveling outside has sentimental value.
-Leveling outside is actually fun, compared to running around opening chests.
-Leveling outside lets one "learn" their job.
-Leveling outside allows one to get into the game if they are a newer player.
Group 2: "I want to leech"
-Leveling outside is boring and repetitive.
-Leveling outside takes much longer, prolonging the enjoyment of endgame.
-Leveling outside takes too much gil for little to no reward when given the option to leech otherwise.
-Leveling outside is old, and most veteran players are tired of it.
-One can learn their job quicker and faster, and most of the time better, by doing research into their jobs role, important stats on gear, Job abilities true effects, and the caps of their stats (dDEX, fSTR, Crit Rate Cap, Fast Cast Cap, etc).
In the end:
Group 1 caters to newer players to some extent,
while Group 2 caters to veteran players who have had Lv.75 jobs for years and are tired of it.
Considering the amount of returning players outweighs the amount of new players, SE seems to know it's demographic. -
05-20-2011, 10:26 AMPantheraLeveling up is an inherent part of this game, and most RPGs, online, offline, or even classic dice and paper variations. That isn't my opinion, that is a fact. Both AFB and do-nothing leeching circumvent active involvement in one's own leveling up. To level crafting, you have to craft! To level fishing, you have to fight each fish down till you real them in. Chocobo Digging, Synergy, leveling NPCs, skilling up magic and combat skills all work the same way; perform that task and you will become stronger at that task. Why should leveling up jobs be any different than any other activity in the game?Quote:
Originally Posted by Romanova
And furthermore, when someone can cheat their way to 90, it takes away from my stature as a level 90. I have a 90, in fact, I have -all- of them, but so what? anyone can get that by just stand around twittling their thumbs. But why stop there? Let's have NPCs that sell Ebisu Rods for 200 Gil. Let's also have a quest where all you get 5000 exp for just standing there. Oh wait, we have that quest already. So yes, I think that there should be restrictions about cheating in a game. Here's your Warp Whistle, I shouldn't have to explain to you how to use it. -
05-20-2011, 10:32 AMAkujimaPeople just can't argue with this paragraph.Quote:
Originally Posted by Panthera
It's a simple fact that all RPG's are like this. Just because the RPG is an online one, doesn't nullify the facts. -
05-20-2011, 10:37 AMRomanovaDid you honestly just try to prove your point by saying, "other games/aspects do it, so this has to do it too"? No, they don't have to follow a formal just because the formula is often used.Quote:
Originally Posted by Panthera
Cheating would be doing something against TOS. This is the same argument people used against Smn burns. They claimed because they got xp so fast unlike regular parties it must be cheating, yet SE has never taken action against those players even after all this time.Quote:
So yes, I think that there should be restrictions about cheating in a game.
It seems SE is actually encouraging this type of activity, so claiming it's "cheating" makes you look like a sore loser as it has not been against SE's policy at all.
And once again, none of what you said means you can't xp the old way. So again, you're just whining over numbers in a video game. -
05-20-2011, 02:42 PMRavenmore
Considering that most people that are key whoreing wouldn't have touch any of the jobs they are leeching. So 65/75 entry would do nothing for low leveling parties outside of abyssea. There were few parties outside of merit parties pre-abyssea. Even then those choose to level sync at 20 and 37.
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05-20-2011, 03:24 PMMeyiUm...kay.Quote:
Originally Posted by Akujima
Because after eight years we should continue doing everything we've done? No. It's called level cap increase, and if you think level 75 gear should be the best equipment at 99, then you are the delusional one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Akujima
Actually, there are still some pieces that are still the best from previous events. These pieces cannot be replaced from Abyssea or anything else currently in the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Akujima
Keep in mind Final Fantasy XI is a video game. If you think those events will be fun, then go do them. If you are only wanting to do them for the rewards then why even waste your time? If you need rewards to stimulate yourself to go then you're in the same boat as everyone else; dissatisfied with the old endgame content. The only reason the majority of the player base did those events was not out of enjoyment, but for the armor.
Trust me, we're relieved that we don't have to do that anymore.
As for leeching there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. I have a friend who has leeched many jobs through and he's amazing at all of them. He has great gear, he knows what he's doing. I leeched my taru black mage from 65 to 90. And I leeched my taru white mage from 30 to 90. But I think you should refrain from passing judgment because a lot of the leechers are returning players which means that they've already played this game before and the odds are high they're picking the jobs they liked the first time to level up again. That means they already know what they're doing.
No, the reason we complain about that gear is because it's terrible. AF3+1 is very easy to get and is a huge improvement to Teal/Pearl/Aurore. Quests are easy and shout groups are even easier. Make a few friends and the monsters are fun.Quote:
Originally Posted by Akujima
I honestly don't even know why I'm bothering trying to explain this to you. It seems it won't go through. -
05-20-2011, 03:36 PMRavenmore
The crour gear is good for what it is, stop gap gear. Hell its 100x better then 3/5 AF people back at 75. AF3 though is pretty easy to get between all the ways you can get it. Got a day off go shout up a few people only have 20 to 30 mins run a quick quest and there is the random seal from ops.
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05-20-2011, 03:37 PMChocobitsWell, true to a point. Except the choice part. People xp at those 2 camps because they DON'T have a choice, whether they prefer those camps or not. Well, there's always Valkurm pts. I refuse those though no matter how many DDs are in the pt, how many PLs the PT has and how good the xp could be. I will never xp in the dunes again in my lifetime. Considering my solo kill speed on pretty much any job 10-20, it would be kinda dumb to subject myself to that. But I digress.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravenmore
The solution to Abyssea leeching is: double AGAIN the xp per mob outside of Abyssea, give larger bonuses for xp chains, give Abyssea-like xp from Fields of Valor/GoV pages, increase the number of valor books, rework valor pages to make sense (who, anywhere, for any reason would xp on lizards in the jungle at the same time as mandies? They're levels apart). While we're tweaking FoV:
Still can't get tabs more than once per hour. And Repatriation and meal effects still cost 50 points why?
Since SE isn't going to nerf Abyssea xp, or nerf entry level any time in the near future, it makes more sense to request en masse that xp conditions be vastly improved outside of Abyssea. I wouldn't mind if xp was still a bit slow, as long as it was somewhere comparable. The trade-off of more available camps, more available people seeking for party, and the fun of actually fighting things would be refreshing.
If you really want to enact some kind of anti-leech change in Abyssea though, start by making common sense suggestions that would bring detriment to an Abyssea group:
Party members are auto-synced to the lowest level person while inside of Abyssea. Leeching solved.
[Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XI FORUM Guidelines.]
My html tags don't always work in these forums. -
05-20-2011, 03:42 PMAkujimaQuote:
Originally Posted by Meyi
So if it's their FIRST time in Abyssea, and they are farming their FIRST NM EVER for AF3+1 seals... You're expecting them to already have a full set of AF3+1? How does that make any sense at all?
AND they just entered Abyssea, and want to get some EXP and Merit points for crying out loud... And you call them WORSE than KeyLeech's?... For actually TRYING to do the best they can, with whatever gear they can get in their FIRST EXP PT's inside Abyssea...
Something is seriously wrong there. Drop the narcissistic/megalomaniac attitude and cut these people some slack.
I would expect them to wear Perle and Aurore (And I'm pretty sure YOU did at one point as well) and get some Merit Points and Skill Ups for their Job, before farming Seals from NM's on lowman 4~6 member PT's, where Merits and Skill Ups would actually do them some good. At least they're trying to contribute and improve themselves.
And if you don't understand the Alien analogy, then you obviously haven't seen the movie "Alien (1979)". Good movie, 30 years old, but still holds well to this day, even amongst all these vampire, nonsense, played out, hollywood garbage movies. -
05-20-2011, 03:50 PMRavenmore
Unless it was alli level there would be fewer camps. Most camps can only surport 1 party with only 2 or 3 good camps ToAU anyone. Abyssea camps surport far more people then any of the old camps. The key word there is people not parties. If its turns out to be to much of a trouble then were rite back at no one bothering to level new jobs.
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05-20-2011, 03:51 PMPantheraYes, I honestly am saying that RPGs are games involving filling in the shoes of characters that level up over time by definition. Not instantly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Romanova
No, that's not necessarally what the word "cheating" means. What you're talking about is "breaking the rules," when the rules say that you cannot do something, and you do it anyway. "Cheating" means to to deprive, mislead, evade, or act dishonestly. Leeching deprives those who actually earned their level out of their prestige. It misleads people that you've been playing your job for 90 levels, when all you've done at best is just open chests, and at worst, just stood around doing nothing. Leeching evades the leveling up process of particpating in battle in a way specific to the main job being leveled. More generally, cheating is dishonest. Did you really, honestly earn level 90? No, you just leeched. Leeching is cheating by defintions, plural.Quote:
Originally Posted by Romanova
No, this arguement is a fabrication. SE has never explictly nor implicitly advised the player base to leech. What's more, players from level 1-29 are restricted from participating in Abyssea. I should call that discouraging, indeed. At most, players are permitted to enter at level 30, but permission is a far cry from encouragement. Furthermore, let's not forget that one must be level 50 to enter Assault, level 60 to enter Einherjar, level 65 to enter Dynamis or Salvage, and level 70 to enter the Walk of Echoes. Generally speaking, SE doesn't just discourage low level characters in end game areas, they outright prohibit it. Why SE picked level 30 as the entry level is beyond me. It should be either at least +60, if not more like 70+, or no level restriction at all. A level 30 cap just makes no sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Romanova
The invalidity of your premise not withstanding, "soar loser" implies a finality to the issue that does not yet exist. Until a community rep says that the level cap will be raised, lowered, or will remain as is, the jury is still out, and there's no winners or losers to be had.**Quote:
Originally Posted by Romanova
Until then, you might think that the permittance of leeching is by design. By all means, leech then. Leech, leech now...and leech while you can. Do you remember how low level players joined campaign battles and worked that exp system for what it was worth? spamming useless buffs while contributing nothing to the battle. They even made scripts for it. Abyssea is no different, and I wager it shall suffer a similar fate. And if and when low level players return to normal areas, no one will pity them after mobs have double the exp values as they once did and FOVs can be repeated as often as desired.
Correct, none of what I said means that, it was never intended to.Quote:
Originally Posted by Romanova
I am loath to retort a summary this sophomoric (and sophomoric is a very generous gift), but if indeed I am, you are as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Romanova
**Provided the number of replies and views of this thread alone, as well as similar threads, any input from a Community rep would be most welcome, just to put the matter to rest. -
05-20-2011, 03:59 PMRavenmore
I like leech got me many a level on subs I woulda put as little into as I could. Case in point I took my whm from 20 to 37 with out touch one mob or party before abyssea. I hate for that job was that much I was content with feeding it exp scrolls and doing the camp op picking trash up around windy.
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05-20-2011, 04:00 PMMeyiI don't expect that of anyone. If it's their first NM though, it'll be obvious. I don't mind helping people and I don't mind guiding them through events for the first few times. It's okay; I was new to Abyssea at one time too. We all were.Quote:
Originally Posted by Akujima
What I'm saying is that there are lots of players who believe they can continue to wear Teal/Aurore/Pearl and be acceptable to a party. Ravenmore hit the nail on the head; these three sets are stop gears. They're decent gears to level up into, but they're not decent to stay in.
And unlike all of the boring end game events at 75, Abyssea monster hunting can be fun. Hands and bodies are sometimes a pain but I've enjoyed helping tons of people get head, pants, and feet seals.
KeyLeeches actually provide something beneficial to a party; they give up their cruor so I can get better exp and better cruor myself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Akujima
It's rather annoying to be continuously accused of thinking poorly of new people. Quite the contrary. I am always welcoming of new people and I am happy to at least help them verbally with understanding the world of Vana'diel. What I cannot stand are people who refuse to learn their job or learn how to play. These people slow me down. They slow everyone down. And when people try to encourage them to fix their gear they start crying.
I knew a black mage who was very upset in linkshell about not being able to sleep monsters. I asked him what his enfeeble set was. Do you know what it was? Nonexistant. I started looking up my set and repeating it to shell only to fall on deaf ears. Eventually when I went out to help him, I noticed he wasn't even changing staves to cast a nuke. He told me he hated blinking.
That, Akujima, is what we, the pro-keyleech team, disapprove of.
New people? Welcome (back) to the game.
Idiots? Get out, stop wasting our party slots pretending to be participating. And if that's not bad enough they all flood the forums and cry more.
Actually I wore mostly Teal plus normal quality AF3 feet and hands because that's all I had on my taru. But as soon as I got to level 85 I rushed out to Abyssea - Vunkerl and did the seal quest about 80 times to get my feet +1ed. There was proof that I had leveled black mage to 75 on my Elvaan; I had all of my HQ staves and tradeable gear, plus I knew not to cast Stone on worms. X3Quote:
Originally Posted by Akujima
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05-20-2011, 04:28 PMRavenmore
The only thing that gets me with pearl set is the people that mix it with gear they already have. Like using the body, hands, and feet with tuban and kitty pants. If they going to do that might as well pick up dusk gloves for 10k and harby 20 to 30k or a +1 for around 100k with some cheap fumes.
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05-20-2011, 04:32 PMAkujimaYea, and it's these same people who cry about how Loooooong it takes to Level Up. It's these same people crying about how much time it takes to go anywhere, demanding more teleports, etc, etc. "Are we there yet?! Are we there yet!?" Sound familiar?Quote:
Originally Posted by Meyi
And anyone who agree's with this thread, could hardly be considered an idiot or a "noob". Because what it asks for is to remove "noobness" and stop the leeching and exploitation of game content. Anyone who agree's with raising the LvCap of Abyssea to 70 or 75, actually has some good sense and knows a good MMORPG or RPG when they see one.
Allow people to start collecting stones at Lv30 (And get Jaochim to tell you that he'll give them to you, once he thinks you're ready to handle Abyssea). But don't give in to the children and spoil them, because then they'll never grow up. -
05-20-2011, 04:36 PMRavenmore
Its not like gimps wern't around doing it the old way. No matter how retarded a whm, rdm or brd was back at 75 chances are you would still invite them if they were the only ones looking to fill that spot.
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05-20-2011, 07:49 PMPantheraWell said sir, and I completely agree with you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatguardian
It's like you say, even with vastly increased base exp, there is just nothing that can keep up with 1000 free exp per mob for every 5 mobs, e.g. Sand Sweepers Op #1. This camp is just overcrowded because it's just so much better than everything else...in the entire game. And secondly, with self buffing Atma effects, and the fact that it's up to 18 players against one mob, there is just no way to keep up with that kind of base kill speed, not even considering the absurd bonus exp. -
05-20-2011, 07:54 PMRavenmore
Huh guess one thing I can like of my new home seems most just go and FC frogs while charging leechs 150k a hour. Dolls only had my LS alli and a couple of solos and one single party.
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05-20-2011, 07:58 PMAkujimaGreatguardian didn't say that... I did.Quote:
Originally Posted by Panthera
Was that intentional or unintentional or?... -
05-20-2011, 07:59 PMhikoin most rpg your char cant lvl 20 job and change job everytime they want.Quote:
Originally Posted by Panthera
people lvl at those 2 camps because they are the better camps (when not overcrowded)Quote:
Originally Posted by Chocobits
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05-20-2011, 08:11 PMPantheraunintentional. These forums can be a tad broken at times when it comes to quoting repeatedly in the same thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by Akujima
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05-20-2011, 08:16 PMPantheraSo, what is your point? You really haven't drawn a conclusion.Quote:
Originally Posted by hiko
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05-20-2011, 08:24 PMhikoMy point is that most of the leechers already went through "Leveling up is an inherent part of this game" several times before aby release,Quote:
Originally Posted by Panthera
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05-20-2011, 08:31 PMAkujimaQuote:
Originally Posted by Ravenmore
It's kind of funny how people fall back on the excuse of "oh we had the same problems, just like in the old days!". Kind of reminds me of a parent telling their child not to smoke cigarettes because it's bad for their health, right after lighting one up. Would be nice if people didn't turn their heads to issues that should be resolved, but I'm guessing people are forgetting what made FFXI such a great MMORPG in the first place, continuing to assault all us "old timers" by telling us we should "take the nostalgia goggles off"...
I played WoW for about 6 months and it didn't take very long to exp to Max Lv if you knew what you were doing. It was fun to explore new zones and new instances while leveling up throughout the game. And yes it can be boring at times, but the PvP and Raiding content in endgame was very good. Blizzard understands how to Balance their game. They understand what an RPG is supposed to be like, they understand the concept of "Tanks" for crying out loud... Blizzard understands their player base far better than SE understands theirs. Blizzard knows that if people are given the opportunity to throw their game out of balance, it WILL happen and Blizzard corrects their mistakes, instead of turning a blind eye to them.
Lv30 entry requirement for Abyssea is a mistake, and anyone with good sense knows that.
As mentioned before, there is no balance in having LvCaps on Assault, Salvage, Dynamis, Limbus, etc, that are higher than Abyssea's and those events don't give copious amounts of EXP. EXP which is vital in Leveling Up. And Leveling Up is a vital process of an RPG. Lv30 KeyLeechers is utter nonsense. -
05-20-2011, 08:35 PMrogff13 allowed you to change jobs repeatedly, mid fight. In fact, it heavily encouraged it, with things like starting with 3x ravager, staggering the mob, then switching to 3x commando to kill it. Using only a single class was not really a realistic option even.Quote:
Originally Posted by hiko
Other games like X-2 allowed changing jobs, all of which need to be leveled separately (sort of), and could be changed in battle as well, though there was little reason to do so.
Then there's ffx, which was a bit different, in that each character started out as one specific class, but ended up all converging into identical multi-class characters.
And that is just a few examples from series of games. Really having multiple jobs/classes that can be switched between is nothing new or unique. Nice try though. -
05-20-2011, 10:04 PMPantheraYou still haven't come to a final conclusion, really. I'm going to make what I can only guess your point is for you. You believe that since "in most rpg your char cant lvl 20 job and change job everytime they want" and that they have already gone through it several times that they should therefore be able to leech?Quote:
Originally Posted by hiko
In RPGs, even if each character has only one job, you generally have to level each character; leveling one does not excuse you from leveling another. At best, you could level groups of characters, but you'd still have to catch reserve characters up. Similarly, you might be able to earn Ability Points into jobs simultaneously, but they're still independent of one another. It's the same thing with FFXI: leveling White Mage in no way pardons you from leveling Dark Knight or any other job, and leeching is an attempt to circumvent that process.
Besides which, many people ignore the fact that levels are deceptive; it's often combat and magic skills which determine whether nukes land or if physical hits land and for how much. Leeching is in that regard, pointless. You'll still have to skill up a combat skill, further proving the point that leveling up, in one way or another, is an inherent, inexorable and inevitable part of the game. The point of leeching is to make oneself eligible for gear for jobs one may not have any skills in, which compounds dishonesty with flat-out greed. -
05-20-2011, 10:06 PMrog
level plays a significant role in damage and accuracy formulas, fyi.
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05-20-2011, 10:28 PMPantheraRight you are, I overstated. I should have said "combat and magic skills are significant factors which determine whether nukes land or if physical hits land and for how much."Quote:
Originally Posted by rog
Speaking from experience, I leveled a lot of jobs with Level Sync. When it came time to fight Maat, I had undercapped skills due to fighting under level sync, and I had to retry. Ultimately, I prevailed, but only after leveling up my combat skills. It is no different than leeching and then expecting to be effective at jobs one is lotting gear for. -
05-21-2011, 12:58 AMRomanovaRPG = role-playing game, not leveling role playing game. You are adding rules to a term that doesn't need rules, just to fit your arguement.Quote:
Originally Posted by Panthera
None of it is "dishonest" because they aren't doing it in secret. As other said, bad players will be bad. I remember back in the day there was a huge stigma against bought accounts saying "how on earth can they be any good if they haven't leveled it?!" But overtime as I met people will bought accounts, I came to a shocking discovery....ffxi is not that hard. I've met many of people who've leeched their jobs. You are stereo-typing them, with no reason.Quote:
No, that's not necessarally what the word "cheating" means. What you're talking about is "breaking the rules," when the rules say that you cannot do something, and you do it anyway. "Cheating" means to to deprive, mislead, evade, or act dishonestly. Leeching deprives those who actually earned their level out of their prestige. It misleads people that you've been playing your job for 90 levels, when all you've done at best is just open chests, and at worst, just stood around doing nothing. Leeching evades the leveling up process of particpating in battle in a way specific to the main job being leveled. More generally, cheating is dishonest. Did you really, honestly earn level 90? No, you just leeched. Leeching is cheating by defintions, plural.
And lol at your term "honestly earned". By your definition, I guess so. But what they're doing is just as honest imo because they are not doing anything against SE.
1. this team is different than the old team, referring to old capped areas when this current team has been lifting caps left and right, makes zero sense.Quote:
No, this arguement is a fabrication. SE has never explictly nor implicitly advised the player base to leech. What's more, players from level 1-29 are restricted from participating in Abyssea. I should call that discouraging, indeed. At most, players are permitted to enter at level 30, but permission is a far cry from encouragement. Furthermore, let's not forget that one must be level 50 to enter Assault, level 60 to enter Einherjar, level 65 to enter Dynamis or Salvage, and level 70 to enter the Walk of Echoes. Generally speaking, SE doesn't just discourage low level characters in end game areas, they outright prohibit it. Why SE picked level 30 as the entry level is beyond me. It should be either at least +60, if not more like 70+, or no level restriction at all. A level 30 cap just makes no sense.
2. I have seen interviews where SE has said in the past they like it when people come up with creative ways to level. In particular I remember this was in reference to nin's becoming tanks, and much later to blms soloing wamouras. So this is why I believe they have nothing against either this or smn burn, because it is still within the game mechanics and you aren't using 3rd party tools to achieve it. And considering smn burns were never stopped, I have to believe this current team is the same way.
fine then have it your way, you are either a completely sore loser, or a sore winner. None of this effects you outside of your pride getting hurt that other people did it easier. I call that sore no matter what.Quote:
The invalidity of your premise not withstanding, "soar loser" implies a finality to the issue that does not yet exist. Until a community rep says that the level cap will be raised, lowered, or will remain as is, the jury is still out, and there's no winners or losers to be had.**
You fail at arguing by insisting X will happen just because you want it to happen, which further proves how selfish you are being and only care about your own accomplishments in a video game.Quote:
Do you remember how low level players joined campaign battles and worked that exp system for what it was worth? spamming useless buffs while contributing nothing to the battle. They even made scripts for it. Abyssea is no different, and I wager it shall suffer a similar fate. And if and when low level players return to normal areas, no one will pity them after mobs have double the exp values as they once did and FOVs can be repeated as often as desired.
I'd like to point out again, I have only leeched once, and that was because 4 years ago I made the stupid decision that I wanted to dual box characters and had a mage toon and a melee toon. I hate dual boxing. So, I'm working towards consolidating all my classes onto one character. I've already done rdm, I didn't care about leeching it back up.
With that said, outside the classes I've already lvled, I probably won't leech. Not because I think it's bad or wrong, but because I like my gil and don't want to pay for it. XD
And again, I've been doing just fine getting regular parties outside of abysea. People have the choice. And I like choices. If you don't like leeching don't do it, but then don't get on a high horse and try to shut it down for others.
While I agree with you, I'd imagine hiko meant MMOs. I think I only ever heard of one other mmo (koMMO iirc) that allowed the character change system. (if he didn't mean it, then he definitely wasn't thinking right.),Quote:
Originally Posted by rog
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05-21-2011, 03:28 AMKimble
If they raised the cap to 70 or 75, people would just go back to smn burning jobs to 70-75.