Raise the Minimum Requirement for entering Abyssea to Lv70 or 75

[Panthera]

Greatguardian didn't say that... I did.

Was that intentional or unintentional or?...

unintentional. These forums can be a tad broken at times when it comes to quoting repeatedly in the same thread.

[Panthera]

in most rpg your char cant lvl 20 job and change job everytime they want.(when not overcrowded)

So, what is your point? You really haven't drawn a conclusion.

[hiko]

So, what is your point? You really haven't drawn a conclusion.

My point is that most of the leechers already went through "Leveling up is an inherent part of this game" several times before aby release,

[Akujima]

Its not like gimps wern't around doing it the old way. No matter how retarded a whm, rdm or brd was back at 75 chances are you would still invite them if they were the only ones looking to fill that spot.

It's kind of funny how people fall back on the excuse of "oh we had the same problems, just like in the old days!". Kind of reminds me of a parent telling their child not to smoke cigarettes because it's bad for their health, right after lighting one up. Would be nice if people didn't turn their heads to issues that should be resolved, but I'm guessing people are forgetting what made FFXI such a great MMORPG in the first place, continuing to assault all us "old timers" by telling us we should "take the nostalgia goggles off"...

I played WoW for about 6 months and it didn't take very long to exp to Max Lv if you knew what you were doing. It was fun to explore new zones and new instances while leveling up throughout the game. And yes it can be boring at times, but the PvP and Raiding content in endgame was very good. Blizzard understands how to Balance their game. They understand what an RPG is supposed to be like, they understand the concept of "Tanks" for crying out loud... Blizzard understands their player base far better than SE understands theirs. Blizzard knows that if people are given the opportunity to throw their game out of balance, it WILL happen and Blizzard corrects their mistakes, instead of turning a blind eye to them.

Lv30 entry requirement for Abyssea is a mistake, and anyone with good sense knows that.

As mentioned before, there is no balance in having LvCaps on Assault, Salvage, Dynamis, Limbus, etc, that are higher than Abyssea's and those events don't give copious amounts of EXP. EXP which is vital in Leveling Up. And Leveling Up is a vital process of an RPG. Lv30 KeyLeechers is utter nonsense.

[rog]

in most rpg your char cant lvl 20 job and change job everytime they want.

ff13 allowed you to change jobs repeatedly, mid fight. In fact, it heavily encouraged it, with things like starting with 3x ravager, staggering the mob, then switching to 3x commando to kill it. Using only a single class was not really a realistic option even.

Other games like X-2 allowed changing jobs, all of which need to be leveled separately (sort of), and could be changed in battle as well, though there was little reason to do so.

Then there's ffx, which was a bit different, in that each character started out as one specific class, but ended up all converging into identical multi-class characters.

And that is just a few examples from series of games. Really having multiple jobs/classes that can be switched between is nothing new or unique. Nice try though.

[Panthera]

My point is that most of the leechers already went through "Leveling up is an inherent part of this game" several times before aby release,

You still haven't come to a final conclusion, really. I'm going to make what I can only guess your point is for you. You believe that since "in most rpg your char cant lvl 20 job and change job everytime they want" and that they have already gone through it several times that they should therefore be able to leech?

In RPGs, even if each character has only one job, you generally have to level each character; leveling one does not excuse you from leveling another. At best, you could level groups of characters, but you'd still have to catch reserve characters up. Similarly, you might be able to earn Ability Points into jobs simultaneously, but they're still independent of one another. It's the same thing with FFXI: leveling White Mage in no way pardons you from leveling Dark Knight or any other job, and leeching is an attempt to circumvent that process.

Besides which, many people ignore the fact that levels are deceptive; it's often combat and magic skills which determine whether nukes land or if physical hits land and for how much. Leeching is in that regard, pointless. You'll still have to skill up a combat skill, further proving the point that leveling up, in one way or another, is an inherent, inexorable and inevitable part of the game. The point of leeching is to make oneself eligible for gear for jobs one may not have any skills in, which compounds dishonesty with flat-out greed.

[rog]

level plays a significant role in damage and accuracy formulas, fyi.

[Panthera]

level plays a significant role in damage and accuracy formulas, fyi.

Right you are, I overstated. I should have said "combat and magic skills are significant factors which determine whether nukes land or if physical hits land and for how much."

Speaking from experience, I leveled a lot of jobs with Level Sync. When it came time to fight Maat, I had undercapped skills due to fighting under level sync, and I had to retry. Ultimately, I prevailed, but only after leveling up my combat skills. It is no different than leeching and then expecting to be effective at jobs one is lotting gear for.

[Romanova]

Yes, I honestly am saying that RPGs are games involving filling in the shoes of characters that level up over time by definition. Not instantly.

RPG = role-playing game, not leveling role playing game. You are adding rules to a term that doesn't need rules, just to fit your arguement.

No, that's not necessarally what the word "cheating" means. What you're talking about is "breaking the rules," when the rules say that you cannot do something, and you do it anyway. "Cheating" means to to deprive, mislead, evade, or act dishonestly. Leeching deprives those who actually earned their level out of their prestige. It misleads people that you've been playing your job for 90 levels, when all you've done at best is just open chests, and at worst, just stood around doing nothing. Leeching evades the leveling up process of particpating in battle in a way specific to the main job being leveled. More generally, cheating is dishonest. Did you really, honestly earn level 90? No, you just leeched. Leeching is cheating by defintions, plural.

None of it is "dishonest" because they aren't doing it in secret. As other said, bad players will be bad. I remember back in the day there was a huge stigma against bought accounts saying "how on earth can they be any good if they haven't leveled it?!" But overtime as I met people will bought accounts, I came to a shocking discovery....ffxi is not that hard. I've met many of people who've leeched their jobs. You are stereo-typing them, with no reason.

And lol at your term "honestly earned". By your definition, I guess so. But what they're doing is just as honest imo because they are not doing anything against SE.

No, this arguement is a fabrication. SE has never explictly nor implicitly advised the player base to leech. What's more, players from level 1-29 are restricted from participating in Abyssea. I should call that discouraging, indeed. At most, players are permitted to enter at level 30, but permission is a far cry from encouragement. Furthermore, let's not forget that one must be level 50 to enter Assault, level 60 to enter Einherjar, level 65 to enter Dynamis or Salvage, and level 70 to enter the Walk of Echoes. Generally speaking, SE doesn't just discourage low level characters in end game areas, they outright prohibit it. Why SE picked level 30 as the entry level is beyond me. It should be either at least +60, if not more like 70+, or no level restriction at all. A level 30 cap just makes no sense.

1. this team is different than the old team, referring to old capped areas when this current team has been lifting caps left and right, makes zero sense.

2. I have seen interviews where SE has said in the past they like it when people come up with creative ways to level. In particular I remember this was in reference to nin's becoming tanks, and much later to blms soloing wamouras. So this is why I believe they have nothing against either this or smn burn, because it is still within the game mechanics and you aren't using 3rd party tools to achieve it. And considering smn burns were never stopped, I have to believe this current team is the same way.

The invalidity of your premise not withstanding, "soar loser" implies a finality to the issue that does not yet exist. Until a community rep says that the level cap will be raised, lowered, or will remain as is, the jury is still out, and there's no winners or losers to be had.**

fine then have it your way, you are either a completely sore loser, or a sore winner. None of this effects you outside of your pride getting hurt that other people did it easier. I call that sore no matter what.

Do you remember how low level players joined campaign battles and worked that exp system for what it was worth? spamming useless buffs while contributing nothing to the battle. They even made scripts for it. Abyssea is no different, and I wager it shall suffer a similar fate. And if and when low level players return to normal areas, no one will pity them after mobs have double the exp values as they once did and FOVs can be repeated as often as desired.

You fail at arguing by insisting X will happen just because you want it to happen, which further proves how selfish you are being and only care about your own accomplishments in a video game.


I'd like to point out again, I have only leeched once, and that was because 4 years ago I made the stupid decision that I wanted to dual box characters and had a mage toon and a melee toon. I hate dual boxing. So, I'm working towards consolidating all my classes onto one character. I've already done rdm, I didn't care about leeching it back up.

With that said, outside the classes I've already lvled, I probably won't leech. Not because I think it's bad or wrong, but because I like my gil and don't want to pay for it. XD

And again, I've been doing just fine getting regular parties outside of abysea. People have the choice. And I like choices. If you don't like leeching don't do it, but then don't get on a high horse and try to shut it down for others.

ffstuff

While I agree with you, I'd imagine hiko meant MMOs. I think I only ever heard of one other mmo (koMMO iirc) that allowed the character change system. (if he didn't mean it, then he definitely wasn't thinking right.),

[Kimble]

If they raised the cap to 70 or 75, people would just go back to smn burning jobs to 70-75.