100% PDT for PET is plain BS.

was unaware thought that with recent update may have changed as they had stated that the % of player stats were being adjusted

PDT cap was only raised for Burtgang Paladins. What it was raised to appears to be untested as of now, but Aegis appears to be at least 87.5% MDT cap so it's reasonable enough to assume Burtgang PLD can hit similar numbers now (assuming they have the gear/atma for it). It doesn't apply to anyone else in the game though, even Bsts themselves. Pets only.

I want the OP to tell us if the "Hundred Shields" video should be nerfed. Let me know if you need a link.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dallas

I want the OP to tell us if the "Hundred Shields" video should be nerfed. Let me know if you need a link.

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Except blocking with shield is not 100% reduction so you still take damage so that's irrelevant. Try again.

Players still cap at 50% as far as I know.

Cyr, your points started out pretty good, but GG's right. You did degrade yourself to the "woe is us" argument. If you want to come BST or PUP or some other pet job to an event? Fine. It's your opinion to want to. However, in a group setting other jobs are usually more useful and have a better application. That's not to say that these jobs can't have their place, but for the most part that place is solo. And this is coming from someone who has both BST and SMN leveled; I'd love to use them in an event, but I understand that there are other jobs I'm needed. If I need to go NIN for red procs then alright, I can do so. Need TH6? Okay. I'm well-rounded enough I can do a number of things.

The problem I'm seeing isn't that the LS or group is being a jerk, honestly; I'm seeing a lot of selfishness on your part. "I want" is what you're arguing for. You want to go BST, you want to play a job. However, as a group that's helping you get stuff done, they technically do have a say in what they believe will be the most useful. For example, as a whole a WAR will do more damage than a BST (From experience. Show me otherwise and I'll retract that point). Therefore it is more useful, as it saves time (mob dies faster). Time is a commodity as much as anything else; by taking less time to kill NM 1, you get to NM 2 faster and probably kill it faster too.

My point here is yes, I'd like to be able to use the lesser jobs once in a while for EG and stuff. Unfortunately, that's not where their place is right now.

Back on topic, I'd like to say that I disagree about lowering BST's PDT cap. Again that's partially biased because I have BST leveled; I don't have a completed PDT set yet (working on the axes, got the rest) but it's a nice goal. The reason behind it is that it gives BST a niche they didn't have before; they're able to solo physical mobs with less difficulty. Sure it takes longer, but if you can't find another target/farm TEs or at very least offer them a hand to speed it along and give them their drops, then the problem lies with you. :|

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5oKh0yEGC2M

Thats CUIJATENDER near the start of that vid. Yes thats empy gear. Do you think that its ok because the gear isn't easy cheap AH gear? I'll even ignore all the whining thats been done about how easy it is to get empy gear completed and pretend its rare and hard to attain. Is it broken? I don't really thinks so.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

You're kidding, right? You read my earlier posts in their entirety, right? There is a difference between "Okay, we need you on WAR to fill out our Reds" and "Pfft Bst sucks u suck get on war lol noob".

Refusing to play an important role as part of a coherent group just because you want to do things your own way is an absolute crap attitude. Period.

If you care more about yourself than the group, that's fine. Don't be part of my group. I'm not taking your money and selling your house when I break your pearl. I am removing you from the group that you obviously can't work with. For the record, I let shellmates come on Blu, Pup, Smn, and whatever other crap all the time because, as I mentioned like 3 posts ago, whenever the basics are set I'll straight up tell someone I don't give a crap what they come on.

Pet jobs need to get over their victim complex. It's annoying, and to the rest of the game is a far bigger reason to avoid you than the job itself could ever be.

Edit: @Korpg, That's exactly what I said <_<. Someone whines and bitches about coming Bst when we need XXX, I kick them. I don't whine when people take an hour to kill shit, I just do other things. But I won't say it isn't annoying as all hell. It's nothing short of incompetent to fight something for that long.

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No, this is all exceedingly selfish of you. Players have the right to play what jobs they want and how they want. Not "my way or the highway."

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Originally Posted by Tsukino_Kaji

No, this is all exceedingly selfish of you. Players have the right to play what jobs they want and how they want. Not "my way or the highway."

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From over here, it looks a lot more like you saying "It's my way or the highway". The individual who refuses to do anything but what they want to do is selfish. The group in which everyone makes a small "sacrifice" in order to bring about the greater good for the whole is not selfish. I quote that because ideally, and typically among most mature players, playing a different job isn't a "sacrifice". It's just playing a different job.

Want an example that doesn't involve jobs? Okay:

Group A has 6 members, each with 1 job. Group A wants to treat its members fairly, but NMs in Abyssea only drop 4 different job seals at a time. No problem, Group A decides to rotate monsters / Complete 1 piece each / etc. Everyone is happy except Player A.

Player A is the Beastmaster. Player A refuses to hunt any NMs that don't drop Beastmaster seals.

Group A wonders why Player A won't just fight the NMs that drop other seals for them when they are all okay fighting the NM that drops Beastmaster seals for him.

Player A insists that it is their right to play what they want, and insists that the White Mage is selfish for making him fight monsters that drop White Mage seals and not Beastmaster seals.

I fail to see the difference between what you and Cy are saying and the situation I just described.

Edit: For the sake of the "Fun" argument, assume in the situation above that the White Mage seal NM is really annoying and hard but the Beastmaster seal NM is super easy.

The people who force people to play the way they want and no other are wrong.
You're example is not what people are talking about and is completely unrealistic.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tsukino_Kaji

The people who force people to play the way they want and no other are wrong.
You're example is not what people are talking about and is completely unrealistic.

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5 solo players in a party is not the same as a party of 5 players.

Though I am starting to understand how it is that people can sit on these forums all day complaining about being unable to do content that, at most, requires one other person who they can work with cooperatively.

Or you could let the BST do it's job in the PT. lol

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

Teamwork is not a bunch of people saying "Me Me Me" in unison. It's everyone saying "We We We".

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It'd be good for you to remind yourself of that because you don't appear to be very cognizant of it, despite your high opinion of yourself; you say it, but the understanding doesn't appear to be there.

That you would consider it "petty" for someone to want to play a job she likes, or a "brat" for not wanting to come on a job she dislikes enough not to want to go in a game she plays for fun is absolutely ludicrous and DOES mark you as a jerk. A "laid back" guy wouldn't insist people do things he knows they don't like or even think about doing so to a hypothetical person because, quite frankly, that's just not what laid back people do. A high-strung, controlling person who thinks he or she is laid back might. Such a person might even crush the pearl of their fulltime BST, too, for having the audacity to want to play the job she leveled up for that purpose.

Teamwork is not just a bunch of people in unison shouting "We We We" with an objective to reach a certain goal at the expense of some of the people on the team. That's called work, with a generous helping of terrible leadership. Teamwork, especially in a game, is a bunch of people working to maximize each others' fun, and that means respecting people who can help, even if it's not at some theoretical maximum, rather than just arbitrarily trying to dump a sacrifice on them and calling it "selfish" when they don't accept it. That person who wants to come on BST (which can still help the group) because logging on to his WHM bores him to the point where he'd rather log off is not "petty" or "bratty" for wanting to enjoy playing the game. That's what the BST is offering the group. The team that insists that he do so, knowing full well that he doesn't like it is being bratty, controlling and ANYTHING but laid back. If that BST not coming on WHM meant the event not going, a "laid back" team that cared about its members (or even friends!) would realize they didn't have enough people and ALL make the sacrifice not to go or find a way to make it happen and bring that BST with them rather than trying to pin the blame on the guy and get angry enough to break his pearl. They'd realize they just didn't have the resources instead of trying to take the faux moral high road and try to force someone to do something they dislike or else kick/leave.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

The goal is for everyone to be successful.

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Oh, is THAT the goal? I always thought it was for everyone to be successful WHILE HAVING FUN, but then...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

I spent years playing White Mage for my linkshell just so other people didn't have to because I'm not a brat.

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I guess not, though really, you must not have disliked it very much or had fun in some other way, but that's not really the point. Even if it were, walking across a sheet of broken glass and then expecting other people to do so again speaks to how ludicrous that notion is (you know, because walking on broken glass sucks and no one should).

"Hey guys I see you have a party of a beastmaster, a ranger, a corsair, and a dark knight. Mind if I come Samurai? You do?

WELL YOU'RE SELFISH THEN GOSH JUST LET ME DO MY JOB IN THE PARTY."

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

"Hey guys I see you have a party of a beastmaster, a ranger, a corsair, and a dark knight. Mind if I come Samurai? You do?

WELL YOU'RE SELFISH THEN GOSH JUST LET ME DO MY JOB IN THE PARTY."

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And that completely misses the point. If that's what you think people are arguing, you've jumped on a red herring and swam a world away.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cyranda

And that completely misses the point. If that's what you think people are arguing, you've jumped on a red herring and swam a world away.

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It doesn't miss anything. In that situation, if healing power is needed, someone is going to need to come White Mage (or something else that can heal). If all of the players there are insistent upon them only being able to have fun on the jobs they are on, they will have no healer.

Your entitlement absolutely relies on the good graces of other players. If everyone is selfish and only plays one of their jobs, no one will get anywhere. If, out of your group of 20-odd 1-job players, only one of them likes White Mage at all, you're in trouble. If that person decides one day that White Mage is no longer fun, your group of 20 no longer has a single healer among them. Have fun with that.

It does sound what you're arguing though. You're arguing to bring something that may not be needed, when something else could be more useful or actually needed. Let me throw in another example to augment this:

You have a party with no healer at the moment. The only person with a healing job (though most people have one by now, this is just an example) is the BST. However, said BST doesn't like playing WHM, and wants to play BST. Should they be allowed to just go BST, and have the party go without a healer? Or should that person suck it up 'cause it would be beneficial to the group to have that healer rather than going the way they want?

Sometimes doing only what you want isn't the most efficient or useful answer. :|

Edit: GG took my WHM example sorta.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

Your entitlement absolutely relies on the good graces of other players. If everyone is selfish and only plays one of their jobs, no one will get anywhere. If, out of your group of 20-odd 1-job players, only one of them likes White Mage at all, you're in trouble. If that person decides one day that White Mage is no longer fun, your group of 20 no longer has a single healer among them. Have fun with that.

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I'd much rather that person have fun, especially if she is my friend, and continue playing instead of burning out and quitting or forcing her to do something she doesn't like. Even if we decided to find a WHM to go too, I wouldn't kick that person, nor would I demand or be angry with her for making that decision. It's certainly not selfish of her. I mean, do you tell a person who donates money to charity every year that the one year he doesn't donate because he ran out of money that he's selfish? Hell no. That would be disrespectful to the time he'd already donated, or in this case, kicking the person would be disrespectful to the time she'd already spent AND the help she can still bring outside the role of WHM simply because she'd ran out of patience (or the idea that it was fun) to play WHM. Even if the person had always been a BST, despite being a "lesser job" as it was oh so recently put, they're still bringing something, even if it's just help killing the monster faster, taking care of adds, holding things when people die, etc.

Hoping for the occasional "I don't give a crap what you come on..." moments isn't exactly a reassuring sentiment for anyone. Why bother gearing a job you'll never get to play in a non-EXP environment because, sadly, it's doomed from the start due to lack of procs in today's low-man world? Saying something like, "Just make your own party, then!" doesn't automatically make those sentiments go away, and in part, devalues the purpose of a linkshell if they're too hardheaded to ever accommodate a frustrated player. It reminds me of the "support job curse" where anyone who ever leveled BRD or RDM back in the day was usually stuck on those jobs unless they did something drastic like drop/sell all their gear or quit a shell and basically forfeit any points or standing they had.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kensagaku

It does sound what you're arguing though. You're arguing to bring something that may not be needed, when something else could be more useful or actually needed. Let me throw in another example to augment this:

You have a party with no healer at the moment. The only person with a healing job (though most people have one by now, this is just an example) is the BST. However, said BST doesn't like playing WHM, and wants to play BST. Should they be allowed to just go BST, and have the party go without a healer? Or should that person suck it up 'cause it would be beneficial to the group to have that healer rather than going the way they want?

Sometimes doing only what you want isn't the most efficient or useful answer. :|

Edit: GG took my WHM example sorta.

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I don't know that anyone is arguing about absolutely essential roles here, otherwise they'd be talking about any DD or tank and not just pet jobs. My focus, for certain, is more on the propensity of people to resist taking BST and other jobs when they can be helpful and can still function, even if it's a reduced rate (the all or nothing approach, or the insulting "we'll take you as a second rate" character sort of thing). I suppose it shouldn't surprise me too much that someone might have taken it to an extreme and assumed I meant that you should have a party entirely of rangers trying to fight something immune to ranged attack, but these are internet forums, so there is that.

Cool keep derailing this garbage thread. Bst's (and pup's from what I hear) are "Working as intended". No need to adjust unless it truly was an oversight.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Seriha

Hoping for the occasional "I don't give a crap what you come on..." moments isn't exactly a reassuring sentiment for anyone. Why bother gearing a job you'll never get to play in a non-EXP environment because, sadly, it's doomed from the start due to lack of procs in today's low-man world? Saying something like, "Just make your own party, then!" doesn't automatically make those sentiments go away, and in part, devalues the purpose of a linkshell if they're too hardheaded to ever accommodate a frustrated player. It reminds me of the "support job curse" where anyone who ever leveled BRD or RDM back in the day was usually stuck on those jobs unless they did something drastic like drop/sell all their gear or quit a shell and basically forfeit any points or standing they had.

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Sometimes I wish I could say something like this rather than dipping into the sarcastic or frustrated. Very eloquent. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cyranda

I'd much rather that person have fun, especially if she is my friend, and continue playing instead of burning out and quitting or forcing her to do something she doesn't like. Even if we decided to find a WHM to go too, I wouldn't kick that person, nor would I demand or be angry with her for making that decision. It's certainly not selfish of her. I mean, do you tell a person who donates money to charity every year that the one year he doesn't donate because he ran out of money that he's selfish? Hell no. That would be disrespectful to the time he'd already donated, or in this case, kicking the person would be disrespectful to the time she'd already spent AND the help she can still bring outside the role of WHM simply because she'd ran out of patience (or the idea that it was fun) to play WHM. Even if the person had always been a BST, despite being a "lesser job" as it was oh so recently put, they're still bringing something, even if it's just help killing the monster faster, taking care of adds, holding things when people die, etc.

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You pretty much keep sidestepping the point. I must look the same to you. Fact of the matter is, I think your attitude stinks. You probably think mine does too.

But you know what? With my attitude, I get things done in FFXI. I come on whatever job I'm needed, or whatever job is best suited for the task at hand, and my versatility makes me a valuable asset to the people around me. I have friends, whom I've completed multiple Empyrean Weapons and Armor sets with, and whom I don't even raise objections around when they occasionally (key word) come Paladin or Blue mage instead of Ninja or Bard. I have a sack in an incredibly successful NA Endgame shell. I've killed everything in the entire game short of Pandy Warden and content that came out yesterday, and I had fun doing it.

Meanwhile, with your attitude, you're steeped in bitterness and hatred towards Endgame linkshells and players. I don't know what your current situation is, but it's obvious you hate anyone who "forces" you to come on anything but Beastmaster. By limiting your usefulness to a group, you lower your appeal to linkshells who can actually complete content. I can't assume too much, but it's fairly obvious you're not happy.

Edit:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cyranda

I don't know that anyone is arguing about absolutely essential roles here, otherwise they'd be talking about any DD or tank and not just pet jobs. My focus, for certain, is more on the propensity of people to resist taking BST and other jobs when they can be helpful and can still function, even if it's a reduced rate (the all or nothing approach, or the insulting "we'll take you as a second rate" character sort of thing). I suppose it shouldn't surprise me too much that someone might have taken it to an extreme and assumed I meant that you should have a party entirely of rangers trying to fight something immune to ranged attack, but these are internet forums, so there is that.

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Considering I have no natural bias against Beastmaster, Yes, I did implicitly apply all of my arguments to any DD, Tank, or Mage job in the game. I don't care if it's BST, SMN, PUP, PLD, or freaking MNK. If someone refuses to come on something vital because they want to play la dee freaking da Anonymous Job A, they have a horrible attitude.

Oh ya because taking 0 DMG from 60,000 needle is 'working as intended'. Ya right, as it been said in early post, even Ochain that is imo super broken too, you still take DMG bc #1 is not 100% block rate and #2 is not 100% dmg reduction.

If you can't find how is not right, i am sorry but i can't help you there.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

Considering I have no natural bias against Beastmaster, Yes, I did implicitly apply all of my arguments to any DD, Tank, or Mage job in the game. I don't care if it's BST, SMN, PUP, PLD, or freaking MNK. If someone refuses to come on something vital because they want to play la dee freaking da Anonymous Job A, they have a horrible attitude.

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Wanting to have fun is a horrible attitude? You'd prefer they burn out and quit? How ridiculous and controlling.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cyranda

Wanting to have fun is a horrible attitude? You'd prefer they burn out and quit? How ridiculous and controlling.

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Personally I'd question the maturity of anyone who is "only able to have fun at all" on a handful of jobs. In principle, it's completely beside the point.

You act like it's always the same person being told to "Get on BRD instead of BST" every hour of every day. Probably because you're bitter and have an overdeveloped victim complex forged from years of playing with crappy linkshells and absorbing the hate and malice of everyone who got rejected from an Endgame shell for only having pet jobs.

Hint: It's not, and has nothing to do with anything I'm saying. Player A only being allowed to come unfun job A for months at a time is not the same as Player A refusing to come anything but unnecessary job B when the group needs vital job C in an instance.

I guess what should be said is there's a fine line between being versatile and a doormat. Some might be content with the latter as it eventually leads them to the shinies, but everyone has varying levels of tolerance and outright demanding people to forgo all personal greed "for the good of the team" is a bit much since not everyone's skill or play time is equal. It just stings all the more when you start picking up on favoritism or start feeling ignored when you have things you'd like to accomplish that do require others.

Regardless, feeling shunned or whatever isn't really justification to make the lives of other players miserable with excruciatingly slow solos or other grief tactics. Ideally, they should offer to help and not steal your stuff, but I don't blame those who refuse aid because of that risk. On the other end, damning these players BECAUSE they can do stuff like that doesn't really help them, either. I've long been of the stance that the means of extreme solos should've been curbed long ago, and in the case of pet immunity, this is just new rung in that ladder. It should be addressed, but not in the, "Give us this in return!" manner of false compromise. Ignoring why certain jobs are left out or unpopular should always be a priority, and I can't help but feel like it's something SE hasn't done a good job of over the years, perhaps in part due to the community bandwagon.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

Personally I'd question the maturity of anyone who is "only able to have fun at all" on a handful of jobs. In principle, it's completely beside the point.

You act like it's always the same person being told to "Get on BRD instead of BST" every hour of every day. Probably because you're bitter and have an overdeveloped victim complex forged from years of playing with crappy linkshells and absorbing the hate and malice of everyone who got rejected from an Endgame shell for only having pet jobs.

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The fact that you're trying to assume a psychological complex about someone to justify your point is amusing. People are pretty good arbiters of what they like and don't like. Many people get burned out, and it's not a "lack of maturity" that makes them do so. That's some awful justification on your part.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

Hint: It's not, and has nothing to do with anything I'm saying. Player A only being allowed to come unfun job A for months at a time is not the same as Player A refusing to come anything but unnecessary job B when the group needs vital job C in an instance.

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The hell it isn't. If someone wants to play on their BST, PUP or whatever they've leveled up and YOU KNOW they hate another job, your asking them to come on it would be not only a slap to them, but a pretty good indicator of how uncaring and controlling you are. If you're fine with that, though, just own up to it. Quit trying to blame your lack of compassion on them or trying to pin them with some complex.

I don't think 100% Pdt is too bad considering that BST IS a solo job, and it typically is not invited for parties besides pet tanking. Besides theres still plenty out there that can kill a pet with 100% Pdt, namely magic casters and anything that can use Doom or Death type moves like Bukkis, and Poison can absoluetely wreck a pet.

i just have to say is unless you played beast/ smn / pup before fov abyseaa or level sync.... you would know that only way you would level is months and months and months of solo'ing i know i did it myself >< because sorry people but summoner is not a healer .... so i solo'd i dont mind buffing but smn is a dd to me
when level sync and fov were introduced this was a god send to the solo'ers because beast pup still didnt get any job invites and now they finally get thrown a bone so they can actually go out and get the gear they need because no one will invite them to a group ( THEY HAVE NO PROC"S ) so they are not wanted in pug's unless they start their own

-100% damage PDT fine ur still taking 30-40 even 60+ minutes to solo an NM where most jobs nin dnc thief can solo rape the mobs in 1/10th of the time and have procs so better chance at drop rates so learn the job and maybe u can respect the only chance they have in abyssea because really when is the last tiem u invited one of them to party with you outside abyssea never mind inside other then maybe a smn's 2 hour because chests make them re useable quicker lol

sounds like ur jus tupset someone had ur mob u wanted to fight would of cried just as bad if ninja or dnc or thief soling IMO

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Originally Posted by Yarly

Except blocking with shield is not 100% reduction so you still take damage so that's irrelevant. Try again.

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That PLD can do things that a -100% PDT BST cannot do. If BST is broken, so is that PLD. It all depends on who the whiner is and how loud they whine.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dallas

Understand why SMN alone got nerfed: SMN was able to reach -100% PDT with no gear, instantaneously, on a pet that was already near immune to one element. They were able to do it with a single Atma, using the other 2 for DD. For a few weeks, I walked Abyssea as a god.

BST need multiple atma, lots of gear (including a pair of magian trial axes and mini-expansion hat), and still need to use food on a pet that can't be called out every 30 seconds like avatars. BST make tons of sacrifices to tank.

Even at -87.5% pdt, SMN tank better than BST in several scenarios. That doesn't mean that BST can't find their niche. The OP was stuck behind a niche fight. Had the OP the slightest interest in a solution, he would have invited the BST into his alliance, killed the NM for him, and let the BST keep what he wanted. 60 minutes drops to 5 minutes, and hours of complaining on forums would disappear.

Sincerly,
The first -100pdt'er

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This^

First of all it's not Abyssea-QQ... it wasn't made for YOU. It was made for everyone...if you can't handle that go play instanced WoW...Secondly, there are a lot more pet curing items now that don't use the reward timer. BST can hold anything forever no matter the PDT. Any magic spamming mobs will destroy bst pets when a bst is solo, and a blanket statement of "OMGWTFBBQ they are invincible!" is hardly warranted.

Should the bst be doing this in a timed zone while ppl are waiting for it? no. Should ppl with nothing better to do just watch and not offer to help like selfish little brats? NO.

All removing bst PDT is going to do, honestly, is make BSTs run mobs over to the cruor prospector where they can spam healing salve I the entire fight. Or they will spam the bastions and kite true AoE mobs to the bastion NPC for healing salve II. The issue really is that BST was impossible to kill, when played right, before the PDT. SE probably just gave the 100% cap so mobs wouldn't be dragged all over the zone killing ppl while BSTs killed high lvl mobs the "old school" way.

The real issue here is that you went QQ because you couldn't fight YOUR mob when you wanted to and you were completely unwilling to help someone else out with YOUR mob during YOUR time with it. Here is a crazy idea, join the BST and have them get DD atmas and show you all how they out damage every single other class in the game.

What is with this ridiculous trend of "If someone else is incompetent and takes an hour to kill Gukumatz, why don't you kill it for them and give them the drops?"

If I'm proc'ing and killing an NM for you because you're unable to handle getting it dead before King Arthro would've raged, don't expect to "have claim" over anything it drops.

There's too much, I don't want people to have it because I can't have it mantality in this thread. lol

Then don't expect to "have claim" over the mob while BST tries....

Quote:

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If I'm proc'ing and killing an NM for you because you're unable to handle getting it dead before King Arthro would've raged, don't expect to "have claim" over anything it drops.

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Bear in mind holding is pretty much why rage mode exists and no amount of -pdt should stop a raged NM from handing you your rear. I happen to think they really should patch rage to make raged mobs even worse on people.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GlobalVariable

Bear in mind holding is pretty much why rage mode exists and no amount of -pdt should stop a raged NM from handing you your rear. I happen to think they really should patch rage to make raged mobs even worse on people.

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I agree wholeheartedly. Honestly, nothing in Abyssea should be taking more than half an hour anyways. We're long past the days of full alliance 60 minute Fafnirs. A 30 minute kill-mode rage timer would be awesome, and it would keep Bst/Pup's toy intact.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Runespider

You have to be honest, -100pdt is pretty stupid.

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Well, over 20% haste is stupid. SE just loves giving people game breaking options.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GlobalVariable

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5oKh0yEGC2M

Thats CUIJATENDER near the start of that vid. Yes thats empy gear. Do you think that its ok because the gear isn't easy cheap AH gear? I'll even ignore all the whining thats been done about how easy it is to get empy gear completed and pretend its rare and hard to attain. Is it broken? I don't really thinks so.

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That's argueable, however, and it's an entirely new topic on its own. At 75, relics were a lot better than other weapons (well, some), but they were still reasonable. I've out damaged quite a few Apoc DRKs who simply weren't good players (and, well, DRKs). But this is different. Ochain, especially, brings PLD to a whole new level, something that others can't possibly keep up with. Even among Empyrean gear it stands out as most broken imo. As I said, that's subjective now, but in my eyes it is broken and shouldn't be this good.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Korpg

If you want to gimp one set of jobs, gimp them all, gimp them all the way back to 75 levels!

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There's an imbalance in your premise. You claim we want to gimp one set of jobs more than others, but that is false. Right now, one set of jobs has a very high and unfair advantage over others, and we simply want that be evened out. And, in fact, not even that, we only asked for lower PDT cap, I wouldn't mind if it's still higher than the player cap.

And while I hate supporting derailed threads, I feel I need to contribute to the current (or, by now, previous) topic.

I always want people to come on jobs they like. The problem is, it doesn't work. I was leading several events, and as a leader it is your responsibility to make it work, somehow. Now, it's hard enough to find people to do Dynamis with, at one point we had only five people. And before people start going "But it's easy to trio Dyna these days!" bear in mind that only applies if you have a working trio combination. If you have four people who all want to come as damage dealers, what can you do? Will you just accept the fact that you have an inefficient setup (and by inefficient I mean dead in three minutes), or will you ask someone to come on a healing job?

This is a very realistic example, it happened to me more than once. Any social system, no matter what context, must have the priorities of the group in mind and find a balance with the priorities of each person. Do you like paying taxes? Of course not, but that money is necessary to keep the country going, and it benefits every individual. And yes, that example does relate, because it's the same thing, it's a social system with its own rules, that balances the wishes of individual persons against the wishes of the entire group. The leaders of a country don't think it's fun to take that money, but they know it's necessary. That's why finding the right balance is a pain, and no matter what you do, people will complain.

So question to you, what would you do if you only had five people for an event, two of which had healers, but didn't wanna play it (and disregard the fact that you'd still like a BLM)? I would seriously like to know. Shout for a healer who has to share his drops with five other people? They'll probably think it's a waste of time, unless you exclude some of your own people again, and the drama starts anew.

Another question to you, when you're asked to come on a specific job, will you do it? It sounds to me like you're trying to justify your own attitude. You say it's selfish if I want someone to come on a certain job, because it would fit into my plans. Well, those plans are for the benefit of everyone in the group (including you). Is that still selfish? Where do we draw the line, would you call someone selfish for jumping in front of someone else to take a bullet, because they didn't want the other person to get hurt, so it was just in his own interest? While it would certainly make sense, it would strip the word "selfish" of any relevant meaning, because every action anyone ever does would be selfish then.

The problem is quite simple, the wishes of a single person don't always benefit the group. If there's a way to work around it, by all means, but sometimes it just doesn't work that way. And if you still refuse to come on a certain job, then yes, I call that selfish.

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Even at -87.5% pdt, SMN tank better than BST in several scenarios.

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I must also point out that even with -50% natural resisst, any VT mob will kill your pet before you kill them (sans using sleep to stop their tracks). Avatars are surprisingly fragile due to pretty poor defense ratings and around 1k HP.

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Originally Posted by Arcon

That's argueable, however, and it's an entirely new topic on its own

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It was a response to something someone else said. I didn't feel a need to quote them since typed it up right after. I don't even remember what it was now.