100% PDT for PET is plain BS.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

Or you could let the BST do it's job in the PT. lol

[Cyranda]

Teamwork is not a bunch of people saying "Me Me Me" in unison. It's everyone saying "We We We".

It'd be good for you to remind yourself of that because you don't appear to be very cognizant of it, despite your high opinion of yourself; you say it, but the understanding doesn't appear to be there.

That you would consider it "petty" for someone to want to play a job she likes, or a "brat" for not wanting to come on a job she dislikes enough not to want to go in a game she plays for fun is absolutely ludicrous and DOES mark you as a jerk. A "laid back" guy wouldn't insist people do things he knows they don't like or even think about doing so to a hypothetical person because, quite frankly, that's just not what laid back people do. A high-strung, controlling person who thinks he or she is laid back might. Such a person might even crush the pearl of their fulltime BST, too, for having the audacity to want to play the job she leveled up for that purpose.

Teamwork is not just a bunch of people in unison shouting "We We We" with an objective to reach a certain goal at the expense of some of the people on the team. That's called work, with a generous helping of terrible leadership. Teamwork, especially in a game, is a bunch of people working to maximize each others' fun, and that means respecting people who can help, even if it's not at some theoretical maximum, rather than just arbitrarily trying to dump a sacrifice on them and calling it "selfish" when they don't accept it. That person who wants to come on BST (which can still help the group) because logging on to his WHM bores him to the point where he'd rather log off is not "petty" or "bratty" for wanting to enjoy playing the game. That's what the BST is offering the group. The team that insists that he do so, knowing full well that he doesn't like it is being bratty, controlling and ANYTHING but laid back. If that BST not coming on WHM meant the event not going, a "laid back" team that cared about its members (or even friends!) would realize they didn't have enough people and ALL make the sacrifice not to go or find a way to make it happen and bring that BST with them rather than trying to pin the blame on the guy and get angry enough to break his pearl. They'd realize they just didn't have the resources instead of trying to take the faux moral high road and try to force someone to do something they dislike or else kick/leave.

The goal is for everyone to be successful.

Oh, is THAT the goal? I always thought it was for everyone to be successful WHILE HAVING FUN, but then...

I spent years playing White Mage for my linkshell just so other people didn't have to because I'm not a brat.

I guess not, though really, you must not have disliked it very much or had fun in some other way, but that's not really the point. Even if it were, walking across a sheet of broken glass and then expecting other people to do so again speaks to how ludicrous that notion is (you know, because walking on broken glass sucks and no one should).

[Greatguardian]

"Hey guys I see you have a party of a beastmaster, a ranger, a corsair, and a dark knight. Mind if I come Samurai? You do?

WELL YOU'RE SELFISH THEN GOSH JUST LET ME DO MY JOB IN THE PARTY."

[Cyranda]

"Hey guys I see you have a party of a beastmaster, a ranger, a corsair, and a dark knight. Mind if I come Samurai? You do?

WELL YOU'RE SELFISH THEN GOSH JUST LET ME DO MY JOB IN THE PARTY."

And that completely misses the point. If that's what you think people are arguing, you've jumped on a red herring and swam a world away.

[Greatguardian]

And that completely misses the point. If that's what you think people are arguing, you've jumped on a red herring and swam a world away.

It doesn't miss anything. In that situation, if healing power is needed, someone is going to need to come White Mage (or something else that can heal). If all of the players there are insistent upon them only being able to have fun on the jobs they are on, they will have no healer.

Your entitlement absolutely relies on the good graces of other players. If everyone is selfish and only plays one of their jobs, no one will get anywhere. If, out of your group of 20-odd 1-job players, only one of them likes White Mage at all, you're in trouble. If that person decides one day that White Mage is no longer fun, your group of 20 no longer has a single healer among them. Have fun with that.

[Kensagaku]

It does sound what you're arguing though. You're arguing to bring something that may not be needed, when something else could be more useful or actually needed. Let me throw in another example to augment this:

You have a party with no healer at the moment. The only person with a healing job (though most people have one by now, this is just an example) is the BST. However, said BST doesn't like playing WHM, and wants to play BST. Should they be allowed to just go BST, and have the party go without a healer? Or should that person suck it up 'cause it would be beneficial to the group to have that healer rather than going the way they want?

Sometimes doing only what you want isn't the most efficient or useful answer. :|

Edit: GG took my WHM example sorta.

[Cyranda]

Your entitlement absolutely relies on the good graces of other players. If everyone is selfish and only plays one of their jobs, no one will get anywhere. If, out of your group of 20-odd 1-job players, only one of them likes White Mage at all, you're in trouble. If that person decides one day that White Mage is no longer fun, your group of 20 no longer has a single healer among them. Have fun with that.

I'd much rather that person have fun, especially if she is my friend, and continue playing instead of burning out and quitting or forcing her to do something she doesn't like. Even if we decided to find a WHM to go too, I wouldn't kick that person, nor would I demand or be angry with her for making that decision. It's certainly not selfish of her. I mean, do you tell a person who donates money to charity every year that the one year he doesn't donate because he ran out of money that he's selfish? Hell no. That would be disrespectful to the time he'd already donated, or in this case, kicking the person would be disrespectful to the time she'd already spent AND the help she can still bring outside the role of WHM simply because she'd ran out of patience (or the idea that it was fun) to play WHM. Even if the person had always been a BST, despite being a "lesser job" as it was oh so recently put, they're still bringing something, even if it's just help killing the monster faster, taking care of adds, holding things when people die, etc.

[Seriha]

Hoping for the occasional "I don't give a crap what you come on..." moments isn't exactly a reassuring sentiment for anyone. Why bother gearing a job you'll never get to play in a non-EXP environment because, sadly, it's doomed from the start due to lack of procs in today's low-man world? Saying something like, "Just make your own party, then!" doesn't automatically make those sentiments go away, and in part, devalues the purpose of a linkshell if they're too hardheaded to ever accommodate a frustrated player. It reminds me of the "support job curse" where anyone who ever leveled BRD or RDM back in the day was usually stuck on those jobs unless they did something drastic like drop/sell all their gear or quit a shell and basically forfeit any points or standing they had.

[Cyranda]

It does sound what you're arguing though. You're arguing to bring something that may not be needed, when something else could be more useful or actually needed. Let me throw in another example to augment this:

You have a party with no healer at the moment. The only person with a healing job (though most people have one by now, this is just an example) is the BST. However, said BST doesn't like playing WHM, and wants to play BST. Should they be allowed to just go BST, and have the party go without a healer? Or should that person suck it up 'cause it would be beneficial to the group to have that healer rather than going the way they want?

Sometimes doing only what you want isn't the most efficient or useful answer. :|

Edit: GG took my WHM example sorta.

I don't know that anyone is arguing about absolutely essential roles here, otherwise they'd be talking about any DD or tank and not just pet jobs. My focus, for certain, is more on the propensity of people to resist taking BST and other jobs when they can be helpful and can still function, even if it's a reduced rate (the all or nothing approach, or the insulting "we'll take you as a second rate" character sort of thing). I suppose it shouldn't surprise me too much that someone might have taken it to an extreme and assumed I meant that you should have a party entirely of rangers trying to fight something immune to ranged attack, but these are internet forums, so there is that.

[Heady]

Cool keep derailing this garbage thread. Bst's (and pup's from what I hear) are "Working as intended". No need to adjust unless it truly was an oversight.