To the posters of this fourm, understand constructive criticism

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

I kinda feel sorry for the people who had to read this forum Daily :( Some of the topics make me wanna break my hand on a wall, if only to distract me from the pain i feel in my brain.

I think that Dev really wanted to say something else, But he can't technically be mean to a player... Oh boy its a job i don't think I Could do. I try to remain calm in debates/Conversations, But sometimes, especially when it comes to a certain, I literally cannot respond, Cause nothing i would say would not get me horribly ban-hammered.

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God, could you imagine the stuff we (and others) would be able to say to Krystal if he posted on BG? And the banhammer comments that would come from Isladar?

/dreamysigh

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Originally Posted by Kensagaku

>.> If you look at the overall population of trolls we have on the site, most of them are actually constructive posters who know what they're talking about and provide good information if it is asked for in a civil, polite manner. If people would learn to accept that their predefined, unproven notions are wrong (like I had the hardest time accepting that more DW on my NIN was better at first 'til I was proven wrong, thinking that I'd get less overall TP gain due to lowered per hit...) and simply listen to the logic pointed out for them, the majority of "trolls" would probably come off as pretty calm folks.

The problem is, as someone already posted, that a large majority of people start telling folks off for saying they're wrong or over a little bit of hurt pride. They have no sense of civility (again citing Krystal as a prime example) and often enough make ignorant or contradictory statements that make the majority of us wish we could reach through the internet to strangle them sometimes. Many of us are trying to prevent the spread of misinformation, because that will reflect on players who we may end up with in a party or shout group, who them use said misconceptions to decrease the overall quality of said group and potentially cause it to fail.

tl;dr Be nice, accept you can be wrong, and we'll be nice too. >.>

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I just wanted to quote you and say you are right, it is nice to see people to show math and proofs. I do not want to sit here and say to people "no you cannot prove someone wrong" I am always trying to improve my self as a person and understanding of everything. I do not want to spam quote every post I read so I am just going to comment on them briefly.

Like I said before I do not believe in "xxx makes them self a target" point out where you disagree with them, explain your views and leave it at that.

Megatron brought up the personal attack of grammar and I will hate to see that here, it leads no where. a simple "I do not understand xxxx can you explain xxx better" vs then "you suck you are stupid so on is something I am requesting from this thread. It violates the ToS and goes nowhere. Hey megatron if you come back maybe ill help you what I do, I run my posts though word before posting.

I do not like showing my personal experiences because I do not want to come off like I am complaining vs pointing out an issue but:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...-Empyrean-Gear

I might have been too harsh with my words, but I was trying to ask a legitimate question if they understood all the aspects in gearing for a ws, not just worrying about a secondary modifier. I am going to be honest here, I do not know what goes in capping your Fstr or attack or w/e ( I know mage formulas a lot better than melee). I was only trying to point out there are people that just gear in secondary modifiers and don’t care about other stats. I even asked to be shown math and what not in what it takes to cap all these things. I disagree with how “easy” it is to cap attack or str requirements for a WS even in abyssea when you have brew doing so much more for you. Not only was I not shown math to back all this “easy caps” but comments that followed released personal attacks” Some people even twisted my words in what I was talking about. I get enough word twisting and personal attack from alla and KI and BG I do not want to see it here, not to me, not to anyone. It is even stated in the ToS of this site not to troll and that you are only supposed to add insight to a topic.

How is “why are you agreeing to someone that said blade jin is wind damage” insight to the topic? How is claiming I fish bot for my relic add to the topic?

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...-DEV-TEAM-wave

this thread also got disgusting. why is it so hard to talk about the topic at hand and stay away from personal attacks?

may I remind everyone here the purpose of this forum. It is ment to post ideas to SE and have people reflect on the ideas. SE does not care about your personal issues with a person or a person's sig.

Why is it so hard for people to only talk about a topic and stay away from attacks?

Why? Why? Why? I do not understand.

I have my suspicions as to who Krystal is and I am guessing others might as well. If so it is not surprising that they are getting such a strong reaction from the other posters. Some people LIKE to stir up people and push as many buttons as possible. They are not going to stop and responding in any extended degree will do nothing but give them satisfaction.
I say that if they post something stupid just post one post that they are wrong again. Then just dont go there again.

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Originally Posted by Rezeak

This is why there should be a dislike button while it's negative it a much better way to disagree with someone

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This. Most of the posts in the forums are opinions. The "I disagree" button would cut down a lot of useless counterproductive flaming especially in cases that involve a preference rather than an evaluation of a game mechanic.

Most of the people I play with refuse to post in the forums for the same reason this thread even exists, but do not refrain from clicking the like button on a post. It would be nice to see both options available.

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Originally Posted by Rambus

I do not want SE to ingore these boards because people treat this place like alla, BG or whatever. I cannot stress enough we are loosing our way in constructive criticism. You can disagree with someone’s point, but DO NOT, DO NOT play this:

http://www.nizkor.org/features/falla...al-attack.html

while trying to pad your creditably. It does not help anything but makes us look bad to SE/REPs.

I am very disgusted in how people acted in this thread:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...arn-about-FFXI.

I do not care if you think krystal compains to much or makes posts/topics you disagree with. Say your objection, explain why you disagree with it and move on. People/SE reading these things do not need to hear your personal quall with the person.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...ut-FFXI./page7

Look at the words I used. I think I made it really clear I was disgusted with how people where posting ,(without actually saying it), and made my comments and objections to her like " SE is posting and trying to fix up FFXIV more because it is in such ruin".

I stated my views without attaching her, why can't you?

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+1 like button. Too many people forget 'being honest,' 'stating their opinion,' and 'correcting someone's mistake(s)' does not equate to carte blanche for being an ass.

If you know that the thread is obviously troll, then why respond? You are doing what the thread was intended to do.

Of course, sometimes it looks like a completely honest question, and you don't know you just got baited into responding to a troll thread. Happens to me all the time though.

Thats probably why I don't respond to certain people's threads anymore, because it won't go anywhere nice.

There is no such thing as "constructive criticism" with this forum.

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Originally Posted by Andylynn

+1 like button. Too many people forget 'being honest,' 'stating their opinion,' and 'correcting someone's mistake(s)' does not equate to carte blanche for being an ass.

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there is a difference of correcting someone and personall attack to the point a thread goes off topic, like the brake thread is my latest exmaple.

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Originally Posted by Rambus

why is it so hard to talk about the topic at hand and stay away from personal attacks?

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Because some people interpret all advice as a personal attack against them.

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Originally Posted by noodles355

Because some people interpret all advice as a personal attack against them.

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I am not talking about that, I am talking about statements like "oh you should not have a relic" or "why are you listing to someone who said blade jin is crap on birds because it is wind damage" derailing a topic on someone’s sig to personal attack to discredit their view.

I am not talking about telling people macros make you more efficient, i am not talking about telling that one person to use haste set and ws set.

Rambus. You're being a hypocrite. Read your replies in this thread:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...nd-Aqua-Spikes

You've said several times "You're wrong. Your reply is irrelevant." This is not constructive criticism, this is merely tearing down a person. Please don't jab at people about attacking others if you're going to go and do the same thing.

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Originally Posted by Kensagaku

Rambus. You're being a hypocrite. Read your replies in this thread:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...nd-Aqua-Spikes

You've said several times "You're wrong. Your reply is irrelevant." This is not constructive criticism, this is merely tearing down a person. Please don't jab at people about attacking others if you're going to go and do the same thing.

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I did not attack the person so no i am not.

I was stating facts.

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Originally Posted by Rambus

I did not attack the person so no i am not.

I was stating facts.

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Marid droppings.

"You are wrong" constructive criticism does not make; "should [have] killed your view" does not make for helpful language, either.

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Originally Posted by Dubberrucky

This. Most of the posts in the forums are opinions. The "I disagree" button would cut down a lot of useless counterproductive flaming especially in cases that involve a preference rather than an evaluation of a game mechanic.

Most of the people I play with refuse to post in the forums for the same reason this thread even exists, but do not refrain from clicking the like button on a post. It would be nice to see both options available.

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As Alla proves, this doesn't work either. The complaint on that site is that people just push the rate down arrow without giving any feedback at all. No, system is going to make everyone happy or even work, really.

With the "Dislike" button, people can hide behind never having to give a reason why they don't like something. They can simply go through a forum and continually press "Dislike" and never give an opinion to the contrary or submit a better idea. But, without it you get people who feel the need to disagree and do it like spoiled brats.

p.s. - I'll add, the Alla system of Karma is probably one of the worst. It takes the inherent dysfunction of the "Dislike" button and raises it to a new level. Karma doesn't look at the actual content of posts but simply how many times someone has had an Up or Down arrow pushed on their post(s). The idea is that the people with continual "bad" posts will have bad Karma. The problem is that a group of people who don't like one thing you said can find and downgrade you on every post you make. And, that is exactly what occurs on that site, 'Karma Bombing.'

I agree with you Rambus, people think trolling works, in actuality it invokes, as you rightly linked, a personal attack fallacy. If you're going to make a personal attack all you're saying is, "you're right, we don't have anything intelligent or useful to say in response, so we'll insult you instead." I've moderated quite a big discussion and debate forum and see it all the time - yes sarcasm works, dependent on the person, but often or not when somebody is attacked on a personal level or feels that way or are simply trolled, they're going to be backed into a corner, get on the defensive, act even MORE stubbornly and use it as confirmation that their point is right. A person will be stubborn if they think they're right and sometimes it takes more work to show them that they're wrong, other times it's simply best to accept you're not going to agree, trolling them isn't going to change it, it just means any points you've made have suddenly become moot (even if you don't convince them on the spot, they may change their minds later influenced by points you've made). Perhaps it's you who is wrong, who knows?

I also see a lot of people who have not been able to answer a person's points instead of simply saying "okay, I can't answer that one, but I still disagree" they'll throw out an insult instead or make some kind of attack and when confronted with it by a moderator they'll find some means of excusing it and justifying it in their own mind, "oh, they obviously deserved it, their point was moot and they weren't seeing it".

At least that's my experience as a debate forum moderator.


I don't know the thread in question - but I understand that the OP is addressing behaviour on the forum as a whole and using that thread as an example. I think if anything Krystal has said is ignorant then any points you make ought to show any onlookers as to why what she says is moot and can witness from her own behaviour and learn for themselves, if you're going to insult/troll then all you're saying to onlooker is, "this place is unwelcoming and nobody is allowed to disagree with other people and I can't take these people seriously", regardless of what the actual case may be. The OP is concerned with the forum image and how people behave - it affects how other people view the forum, SE included. I have been a member of a forum where the organisation who ran it closed it down because they felt it had too many bigots roaming it and say little reason to keep it open, it was far from the truth.

I am going to try saying this once more.

this forum is not alla, bg, ki , ffxi ah or wherever else you got where you can let off steam in making attack statements to people that said lame things. These forums are being monitored by the people that make the game and should be civil as you can be. I do not care if it is me krystal, hordecore, or starcade. they (me/we) may state things you personally do not like, that does not give you the right to make attack threads or tag thread stalking. I read on a BG post "my posts are 75% real 25% troll" well guess what? Mine is 100-0 and everyone should be like that here.

If I was someone in power of SE I would make a statement, "shape up or ill shut down the forums". I read long ago that when it was Japanese only they had a forum for a few months but shut it down.
Do you really want them to shut this down because you cannot control your troll urges? Saying XXX makes them self a target? Only you control what you write.

Be professional you are talking to a business, not your drinking buddy.

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Originally Posted by Rambus

Mine is 100-0 and everyone should be like that here.

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I think most of us would disagree with that. lol

With the staggering amount of logical fallacies that gets posted on a daily basis unchecked while certain people mash the report button at every post they don't "like" because it "makes too much sense" I would not mind if the forum were closed at all.

You know very well what part you're playing. If you want professional posts, start locally.

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Originally Posted by Alkalinehoe

I think most of us would disagree with that. lol

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I agree with this person.

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Originally Posted by Corwin

With the staggering amount of logical fallacies that gets posted on a daily basis unchecked while certain people mash the report button at every post they don't "like" because it "makes too much sense" I would not mind if the forum were closed at all.

You know very well what part you're playing. If you want professional posts, start locally.

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I don't think I could have said it better myself.

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Originally Posted by Rambus

Mine is 100-0 and everyone should be like that here.

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Hahaha, oh wow, that is the funniest thing I have read all day, thanks Rambus.

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Originally Posted by Rambus

If I was someone in power of SE I would make a statement, "shape up or ill shut down the forums". I read long ago that when it was Japanese only they had a forum for a few months but shut it down.
Do you really want them to shut this down because you cannot control your troll urges?

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Quite frankly I wouldn't have a problem if SE decided to shut down these forums because they were a terrible idea to begin with. Official forums pretty much always degenerate into a steaming pile of crap because the woefully uneducated and misinformed always seem to make it their stronghold. These are the type of people who don't understand what constructive criticism is and tend to think that anyone who disagrees with them is personally attacking them. These types of people can't have a calm, rational debate about in game mechanics or ideas for changes and resort to spamming the report button whenever anyone dares to have a differing opinion. Eventually the people who do know what they're doing get tired of trying to stem the unending tide of retardation and terrible ideas that they give up and the forums end up as a circle jerk of horrible ideas/suggestions and even worse ones.

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Originally Posted by Rambus

Be professional you are talking to a business, not your drinking buddy.

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Because spamming the report button on any post that even remotely strays from your POV is totally professional right?

People are going to disagree with anyone just because they don't like them from a previous post of "he said, she said."

While it would be nice for people to understand constructive criticism, 99.9% of people don't even understand the word "constructive" that well, so there will always be a "no, your stupid lulz" mentality everywhere.

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Originally Posted by Pharaun

Quite frankly I wouldn't have a problem if SE decided to shut down these forums because they were a terrible idea to begin with. Official forums pretty much always degenerate into a steaming pile of crap because the woefully uneducated and misinformed always seem to make it their stronghold. These are the type of people who don't understand what constructive criticism is and tend to think that anyone who disagrees with them is personally attacking them. These types of people can't have a calm, rational debate about in game mechanics or ideas for changes and resort to spamming the report button whenever anyone dares to have a differing opinion. Eventually the people who do know what they're doing get tired of trying to stem the unending tide of retardation and terrible ideas that they give up and the forums end up as a circle jerk of horrible ideas/suggestions and even worse ones.

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I was going to say this, but I got beaten =|

If somebody comes off with ridiculously incorrect or stupid claims/comments, you'll find people will generally laugh/criticize that person, usually they're corrected first. Consistently denying facts/math for "opinion" or whatever is just annoying, and fallible logic steers other players in bad directions. That person then results to mashing the report button because he got butthurt, that's not acknowledging constructive criticism, so I find the OP quite self contradictory. Then a thread gets nuked along with whatever posts were actually good/correct.
These forums are meant to be for well thought out ideas, advice and debate, not QQ my job needs a buff or make Gukumatz easier to claim.

Everyone's fondness for any given idea will vary, but to automatically disqualify job gripes or claim/congestion issues is kinda silly. If they can't be brought up here, then where? Arguably doing so on Alla or other sites hasn't done much good, since some things are pretty ancient in their brokenness or disuse.

Meanwhile, there are certainly some who try to hide behind the label of constructive criticism or some higher level of maturity. How that involves name calling, troll tags, questionable sigs, and rounding up their buddies to do the same is beyond me. The fact some now have 3+ warnings/suspensions and are still at it puzzles me. I'm beginning to wonder if SE banning people from the game for their behavior here was an empty threat, as by the confession of these "enlightened ones" elsewhere, that risk is the only reason that had been keeping them from nerdraging here. Knowing they mean it along with continued diligence is what can help make the place more enjoyable, not letting some behaviors slide because the perpetrators believe it has to be done that way to make their own points.

Job gripes are fine when people make good suggestions based on knowing the mechanics behind the job. Example, the abundance of threads with PLD "fixes" on every forum in existence, with one idea after another circling around "give PLD provoke or other enmity gaining abilities" is way off the mark with what is actually hurting the job. And those who read them time and again get frustrated, the OP then determines this disregard as "rude" and mashes the report button. That's not annoying? I'm all for debate and improvement of jobs, but the same stuff over and over with little to no thought put into it just gets irritating to read, you can't really blame all of the reactions shown by readers.

I'm sorry but personal attacks and name calling leave an impression which has a possibility of convincing the person to not make such comments in the future. It may be ugly but it works.

It seems to me that the Report button has become the Dislike button around here.

It's getting tiring having every post that disagrees with the OP reported as "offensive" on these boards. It's becoming silly.

If you want to be "professional" and have "useful discussion" then stop trying to shut up people with disagree with you and post logical, clear reasons why they are wrong without resorting to Report.

It might work with your buddies, but for strangers on the internet, it's probably the quickest way to get them to cover their ears and stop listening. Or mash the report button, as some seem to fear.

There's another side that the "right" tend to overlook in their own pursuit of proving their points: Ignore it. The mere existence of a post does not automatically translate to an infection of stupid or even an indication of the general populace's thoughts on the given matter. Every time you reply to a bad idea, you're bumping the thread, possibly giving the creator of whatever bad idea fodder to argue and basically keep things circulating and lending to the illusion of an important topic. When you start arguing for the sake of arguing, then, you've pretty much lost the fight. I've lost count of the threads I saw that could've pretty much ended after the first reply or three, but someone had to go and poke the proverbial hornet's nest. And if there's one thing neither side likes, it's losing.

While I agree it's not the nicest tactic (that I am unfortunately guilty of myself), at the same time it's the only way to drive a point home. There are those who are so stubborn, so set in their belief that they are right, that they will not back down for a moment to realize that someone is trying to explain something to them. It is beyond frustrating to try and tell someone that they may be wrong (note that I use the word may here; I have thought something only to be proven wrong as well. We're not perfect.) only to get "No, you're wrong, now shut up and stop flaming my thread, you troll." We get irritated, we snap back and retaliate.

Only in rare instances are attacks ever unjustified - maybe it doesn't make them a nicer tactic for it, but at the same time, any time someone is attacked on a forum, whether it is aimed at their reputation or at their credibility, odds are its earned. I won't deny that there are people who choose to troll "just for the lulz" as it's said, but usually a person who is being "trolled" generally has earned it in some way. Krystal is (was? haven't seen a post recently) a brilliant example, often putting down anyone who disagrees with her and insulting them in some way. Often she was seen acting very superior when she was called out on being wrong, giving her an inflated ego and causing her to pad out her "credibility" with false tales in order to once more show the stubborn "you're wrong" argument.

Sometimes stating your opinion isn't enough. The majority of the "trolls" here are dedicated to keeping the right information flowing through to the people who use this forum and seek to find information or push ideas through to SE. We want to help improve people, and enable them to pass accurate information onto their peers. We want to help improve the game too; we're not (for the most part, at very least I can speak for myself) trying to just push everyone over and laugh about it.

Sometimes there's a call for diplomacy on this; there are those who will listen and offer valid arguments rather than saying "No u!" or calling people out as trolls just because they disagree. These people can be reasoned with, and can point out ideas that we may not have considered, or might eventually agree with us, depending on the debate. These can go over well, and generally end amicably on both sides.

However, sometimes force is necessary as well, and it's a way of containing inaccurate information that should not be spread and as a result affect everyone's play quality. There are those who will dig their heels in and start spamming the report button so that they may remove any and all opposition that might poke a tiny little hole in someone's inflated ego. In order to stop that, sometimes different tactics are necessary.

My point here is, sometimes you can be nice, and sometimes you have to show the hard lessons in life. It all depends on the civility of those involved.

[/wall'o'text speech]

Yeah well such is life, if you say or do something stupid with friends, at work, in sports, other games, or anywhere else on the internet someone is going to call you out. I don't see why this is an exception, there's a difference between civility and the equivalent of someone running to their parents when their idea or suggestion is criticized. It's even worse when the end result could very well be a useful/informative thread getting nuked because someone can't take criticism.

Well, there's always the old saying, "You can bring a horse to water, but your can't force them to drink."

Replace horse with a person, water with whatever info you're trying to convey, and drink with learning it. You may not educate them, but someone who comes later on could partake. Forum contributions aren't always immediate like that, and we can't even begin to fathom the impact our words make, good or bad, to those who simply lurk.

As is, I am (perhaps unfortunately) a bit of a white knight personality when it comes to my internet actions. I do not miss my youthful days of being bullied and am not at all interested in seeing that perpetuated in today's more tech-inclined era. I will never be convinced that malicious trolling makes a forum healthier and knowing that some random guy in his mid-20s decided to pwn a teenager isn't much of a win in my book. You'll never know what they'd do after, be it harm to themselves or transferring that rage and disappointment to others within reach. The concept of paying it forward is simply not limited to good deeds. In the end, a little FFXI misinformation is not the apocalypse.

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Originally Posted by Kensagaku

While I agree it's not the nicest tactic (that I am unfortunately guilty of myself), at the same time it's the only way to drive a point home. There are those who are so stubborn, so set in their belief that they are right, that they will not back down for a moment to realize that someone is trying to explain something to them. It is beyond frustrating to try and tell someone that they may be wrong (note that I use the word may here; I have thought something only to be proven wrong as well. We're not perfect.) only to get "No, you're wrong, now shut up and stop flaming my thread, you troll." We get irritated, we snap back and retaliate.

Only in rare instances are attacks ever unjustified - maybe it doesn't make them a nicer tactic for it, but at the same time, any time someone is attacked on a forum, whether it is aimed at their reputation or at their credibility, odds are its earned. I won't deny that there are people who choose to troll "just for the lulz" as it's said, but usually a person who is being "trolled" generally has earned it in some way. Krystal is (was? haven't seen a post recently) a brilliant example, often putting down anyone who disagrees with her and insulting them in some way. Often she was seen acting very superior when she was called out on being wrong, giving her an inflated ego and causing her to pad out her "credibility" with false tales in order to once more show the stubborn "you're wrong" argument.

Sometimes stating your opinion isn't enough. The majority of the "trolls" here are dedicated to keeping the right information flowing through to the people who use this forum and seek to find information or push ideas through to SE. We want to help improve people, and enable them to pass accurate information onto their peers. We want to help improve the game too; we're not (for the most part, at very least I can speak for myself) trying to just push everyone over and laugh about it.

Sometimes there's a call for diplomacy on this; there are those who will listen and offer valid arguments rather than saying "No u!" or calling people out as trolls just because they disagree. These people can be reasoned with, and can point out ideas that we may not have considered, or might eventually agree with us, depending on the debate. These can go over well, and generally end amicably on both sides.

However, sometimes force is necessary as well, and it's a way of containing inaccurate information that should not be spread and as a result affect everyone's play quality. There are those who will dig their heels in and start spamming the report button so that they may remove any and all opposition that might poke a tiny little hole in someone's inflated ego. In order to stop that, sometimes different tactics are necessary.

My point here is, sometimes you can be nice, and sometimes you have to show the hard lessons in life. It all depends on the civility of those involved.

[/wall'o'text speech]

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This is the most accurately correct, Nicely Worded, Reasonable Speech on the subject in this thread (theres some close seconds).

And if the thread continues long past here, He just proved himself right. Because this entire speech should basically be the closing point of this thread.

Lets see how long until someone replies with a rebuttal to it.

Too late, Krabby.

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Originally Posted by Seriha

The concept of paying it forward is simply not limited to good deeds. In the end, a little FFXI misinformation is not the apocalypse.

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If this was another Forum I might be inclined to agree but this isn't just some forum. When they post stuff like the raise abyssea cap to 75 shit it is our duty to crush them to show that they are a super minority, otherwise the developers might actually believe that there word is the word of all of us.

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Originally Posted by Seriha

Well, there's always the old saying, "You can bring a horse to water, but your can't force them to drink."

Replace horse with a person, water with whatever info you're trying to convey, and drink with learning it. You may not educate them, but someone who comes later on could partake. Forum contributions aren't always immediate like that, and we can't even begin to fathom the impact our words make, good or bad, to those who simply lurk.

As is, I am (perhaps unfortunately) a bit of a white knight personality when it comes to my internet actions. I do not miss my youthful days of being bullied and am not at all interested in seeing that perpetuated in today's more tech-inclined era. I will never be convinced that malicious trolling makes a forum healthier and knowing that some random guy in his mid-20s decided to pwn a teenager isn't much of a win in my book. You'll never know what they'd do after, be it harm to themselves or transferring that rage and disappointment to others within reach. The concept of paying it forward is simply not limited to good deeds. In the end, a little FFXI misinformation is not the apocalypse.

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Isn't what i do to myself after reading quite possibly the stupidest, thick Headed, Stalker-like posts of some of these people, Important too?

I've always tried my best to word my objections fairly, and 9/10 someone will come back with some stupid over-the-top offensive crap that makes my brain bleed due to the misinformation spewed vehemently over the idea and the post.

I seriously try to remain as civil as possible, but I'm only human, when someone resorts to repeatedly making offensive whiny posts when i try to explain to them why its incorrect or wrong, i lost my temper. I'm human.

So, I think both sides can use this argument. I might go cut myself or beat my (DELETED) simply because i read something so stupid it made a tumor in my brain 1 centimeter larger, While those who see the words "I'm not a fan of your idea, Heres why" apparently rage offensively to it.

If you haven't guessed by now, I'm being mildly sarcastic, But theres a hint of truth to my statement. I think if the conversation begins with "Heres my idea." > "I'm not a fan of this, It seems unrealistic" > "YOUR A TROLL I HATE YOU", Then the person in question who started said idea generally deserves what he gets.

Expecting people to remain 100% Civil all the time is unrealistic, We're all human. Point is though, the people you're defending, are more often the not, the ones that start the entire problem. They take any form of criticism, or a different point of view, or a disagreement, as "TROLLING", and immediately go off the deep end, or spam the report button, or something equally very childish.

I agree with what you're saying, but its a 2-way Street, of which those you defend simply are not driving down (most of them).

(10 Bucks this will probably get "reported" too because it doesn't fall in line with the OP)

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Originally Posted by Mrbeansman

If this was another Forum I might be inclined to agree but this isn't just some forum. When they post stuff like the raise abyssea cap to 75 shit it is our duty to crush them to show that they are a super minority, otherwise the developers might actually believe that there word is the word of all of us.

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Also this! Thank you Mrbean.

I wouldn't even call my post an argument against it. Just my own tactic for handling it is a bit different. Leave someone arm-flailing alone long enough, they'll probably get bored and give up. If they turn around and self-bump their own topics, on some level, you're given justification to report them for spamming. So, umm... Time Out or Tough Love? I just think the latter crosses the line at times.

And as much as I can be a sarcastic ass RL, I know that doesn't always convey to text well. Need to be careful there, especially if people don't know you.

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Originally Posted by Seriha

I wouldn't even call my post an argument against it. Just my own tactic for handling it is a bit different. Leave someone arm-flailing alone long enough, they'll probably get bored and give up. If they turn around and self-bump their own topics, on some level, you're given justification to report them for spamming. So, umm... Time Out or Tough Love? I just think the latter crosses the line at times.

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(I Feel I should point out, a lot of what i see here isn't "pointed at you" but more in general. Sorry if it comes off wrong)

I definitely agree sometimes people take it too far. But its not an instant thing, its Gradual.

My tactic has always been trying to nicely explain something, or to point out flaws, or to point out things unrealistic. I try to keep it nice, but 9/10 I still get an angry heated crybaby response for no reason other than they think I'm trolling just because I don't agree with them.

The people you're probably referring too generally try to keep their responses this way as well, they are simply human, and when someone resorts to screaming at them and calling them a troll simply because they don't agree with them, They lost their cool.

There are two sides to this solution, and one of them is the people in question who just "Spam report and scream troll" need to grow up. They can't take criticism, and expecting everyone else here to have the willpower of Gandhi is unrealistic. This is a tough love world, while i do not agree with Resorting to name-calling ever, especially in a "First Response" sometimes people lose their temper.

Again, its a 2-way road, and 99% of the people who just Cry "Troll" Refuse to ever believe their ideas are bad or wrong, and call everyone who tries to show them that, a troll.

I wish there was an easy way to try and explain what I'm saying :| its just I have a hard time with words.