To the posters of this fourm, understand constructive criticism

[Rambus]

Because some people interpret all advice as a personal attack against them.

I am not talking about that, I am talking about statements like "oh you should not have a relic" or "why are you listing to someone who said blade jin is crap on birds because it is wind damage" derailing a topic on someone’s sig to personal attack to discredit their view.

I am not talking about telling people macros make you more efficient, i am not talking about telling that one person to use haste set and ws set.

[Kensagaku]

Rambus. You're being a hypocrite. Read your replies in this thread:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...nd-Aqua-Spikes

You've said several times "You're wrong. Your reply is irrelevant." This is not constructive criticism, this is merely tearing down a person. Please don't jab at people about attacking others if you're going to go and do the same thing.

[Rambus]

Rambus. You're being a hypocrite. Read your replies in this thread:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...nd-Aqua-Spikes

You've said several times "You're wrong. Your reply is irrelevant." This is not constructive criticism, this is merely tearing down a person. Please don't jab at people about attacking others if you're going to go and do the same thing.

I did not attack the person so no i am not.

I was stating facts.

[Tamarsamar]

I did not attack the person so no i am not.

I was stating facts.

Marid droppings.

"You are wrong" constructive criticism does not make; "should [have] killed your view" does not make for helpful language, either.

[Randwolf]

This. Most of the posts in the forums are opinions. The "I disagree" button would cut down a lot of useless counterproductive flaming especially in cases that involve a preference rather than an evaluation of a game mechanic.

Most of the people I play with refuse to post in the forums for the same reason this thread even exists, but do not refrain from clicking the like button on a post. It would be nice to see both options available.

As Alla proves, this doesn't work either. The complaint on that site is that people just push the rate down arrow without giving any feedback at all. No, system is going to make everyone happy or even work, really.

With the "Dislike" button, people can hide behind never having to give a reason why they don't like something. They can simply go through a forum and continually press "Dislike" and never give an opinion to the contrary or submit a better idea. But, without it you get people who feel the need to disagree and do it like spoiled brats.

p.s. - I'll add, the Alla system of Karma is probably one of the worst. It takes the inherent dysfunction of the "Dislike" button and raises it to a new level. Karma doesn't look at the actual content of posts but simply how many times someone has had an Up or Down arrow pushed on their post(s). The idea is that the people with continual "bad" posts will have bad Karma. The problem is that a group of people who don't like one thing you said can find and downgrade you on every post you make. And, that is exactly what occurs on that site, 'Karma Bombing.'

[Saefinn]

I agree with you Rambus, people think trolling works, in actuality it invokes, as you rightly linked, a personal attack fallacy. If you're going to make a personal attack all you're saying is, "you're right, we don't have anything intelligent or useful to say in response, so we'll insult you instead." I've moderated quite a big discussion and debate forum and see it all the time - yes sarcasm works, dependent on the person, but often or not when somebody is attacked on a personal level or feels that way or are simply trolled, they're going to be backed into a corner, get on the defensive, act even MORE stubbornly and use it as confirmation that their point is right. A person will be stubborn if they think they're right and sometimes it takes more work to show them that they're wrong, other times it's simply best to accept you're not going to agree, trolling them isn't going to change it, it just means any points you've made have suddenly become moot (even if you don't convince them on the spot, they may change their minds later influenced by points you've made). Perhaps it's you who is wrong, who knows?

I also see a lot of people who have not been able to answer a person's points instead of simply saying "okay, I can't answer that one, but I still disagree" they'll throw out an insult instead or make some kind of attack and when confronted with it by a moderator they'll find some means of excusing it and justifying it in their own mind, "oh, they obviously deserved it, their point was moot and they weren't seeing it".

At least that's my experience as a debate forum moderator.


I don't know the thread in question - but I understand that the OP is addressing behaviour on the forum as a whole and using that thread as an example. I think if anything Krystal has said is ignorant then any points you make ought to show any onlookers as to why what she says is moot and can witness from her own behaviour and learn for themselves, if you're going to insult/troll then all you're saying to onlooker is, "this place is unwelcoming and nobody is allowed to disagree with other people and I can't take these people seriously", regardless of what the actual case may be. The OP is concerned with the forum image and how people behave - it affects how other people view the forum, SE included. I have been a member of a forum where the organisation who ran it closed it down because they felt it had too many bigots roaming it and say little reason to keep it open, it was far from the truth.

[Rambus]

I am going to try saying this once more.

this forum is not alla, bg, ki , ffxi ah or wherever else you got where you can let off steam in making attack statements to people that said lame things. These forums are being monitored by the people that make the game and should be civil as you can be. I do not care if it is me krystal, hordecore, or starcade. they (me/we) may state things you personally do not like, that does not give you the right to make attack threads or tag thread stalking. I read on a BG post "my posts are 75% real 25% troll" well guess what? Mine is 100-0 and everyone should be like that here.

If I was someone in power of SE I would make a statement, "shape up or ill shut down the forums". I read long ago that when it was Japanese only they had a forum for a few months but shut it down.
Do you really want them to shut this down because you cannot control your troll urges? Saying XXX makes them self a target? Only you control what you write.

Be professional you are talking to a business, not your drinking buddy.

[Alkalinehoe]

Mine is 100-0 and everyone should be like that here.

I think most of us would disagree with that. lol

[Corwin]

With the staggering amount of logical fallacies that gets posted on a daily basis unchecked while certain people mash the report button at every post they don't "like" because it "makes too much sense" I would not mind if the forum were closed at all.

You know very well what part you're playing. If you want professional posts, start locally.

[Yugl]

I think most of us would disagree with that. lol

I agree with this person.