Suggestion: Aby proc cells

I certainly dont disagree how frustrating not being able to have the proc is (I'm staring at you freezebite while on nin...). I also dont disagree that multiboxing is merely a bandaid solution to try overcome lack of people/jobs to get crap done (and tbh its a royal PITA sometimes having to try maneuver and keep an eye on two characters)

But.. at the same time, its also one of the only ways I am able to get stuff done when the rest of my ls goes to bed (yay for being aussie and ls goes to bed at 2-4pm my time lol). So until such a point that SE does decide to change things (if they bother considering their focus is now on expansion/new content), it will continue to be one of a handful of options people have for content that 75%+ of the playerbase has done to death and doesnt want to keep helping others do

BTW, I apologise for the gnarcky comments

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Originally Posted by Arcon

I haven't been BLM to Abyssea much, but I've yet to encounter any trouble landing Threnodies on seal NMs without Elemental Seal. With the Atma of the Ultimate and Chatoyant Staff, along with some minor gear here and there it lands very reliably unless it's a particularly resistant NM. I don't even remember when I had to use ES to land it the last time, but it wasn't this year.

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Really? I guess those 4-9 levels make a difference. At 90-95 when I was heavily farming seals even with capped skill + merited singing it was a crap shoot without ES. Good to know however doesn't change the point about skill not being needed thanks to ES.

It's been a while since i specifically went after seals now, my blm friend seems to have a decent amount of trouble landing threnodies on +2 item NMs without elemental seal, at least. He's got brd leveled too, so he's capped on skill, but it seems to be floored on hit rate even with an ascetic's tonic and some gear.

The problem with Abyssea is that it's very strict in what jobs you need to bring if you want to proc yellow for seals. If you combine that with the fact that every NM only drops 4 types of seals it really makes it difficult for anyone to shout up someone who just happens to have both the required job leveled and wants that particular seal. At this point, most of the people who need seals are playing catchup and probably don't have every single one of the needed jobs leveled so that argument makes no sense to me.

Still, the simple solution I've always found is just...farm NMs as a Melee + mage combo and proc what you can, and then just kill if you can't hit the proc. The NM can still drop up to two seals if you don't proc anyway. The only exception to this I can think of is body seal NMs given how irritating it can be to farm up their pops sometimes.

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Originally Posted by Arcon

Not noteworthy at all, because a vast majority of those quests are utterly useless. Slow, painful or expensive, or any combination of those.

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All of the above is a far more viable option due to your apperent innability to obtain party members.

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Originally Posted by Mirage

It's not that dualboxing isn't more efficient, it's that it shouldn't be a "solution" to be used instead of the developers changing the game in a way that makes it better.

If people should "buy another game account" to do abyssea, it isn't a far stretch to say "six people could just all triplebox to get all procs in voidwatch" to people when they ask SE to change things there.

It is the same principle, you are asking people to pay 2-3 times more for their game instead of SE changing the gameplay.

"Just multibox it" is a terrible suggestion, and it would be a lot better to just implement a cruor-bought item that would reset the NM's weakness to a new randomly (within day/time limits)picked proc. If it was lightsday and you got "Dispel" as the proc, you could use the item and it would change to for example Thunder IV. You'd still need to get hints all over again, of course, but it would still be a lot less annoying.

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I actually like this suggestion better than my own. Cells that reset procs.

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Originally Posted by Trisscar

I actually like this suggestion better than my own. Cells that reset procs.

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So as a solo player you'd keep resetting until you get a NIN proc? Sounds like a huge waste of time but at that point it would benefit groups more so than solo players because they would just reset until it isn't BLU or WHM depending on the setup.

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Originally Posted by Zagen

So as a solo player you'd keep resetting until you get a NIN proc? Sounds like a huge waste of time but at that point it would benefit groups more so than solo players because they would just reset until it isn't BLU or WHM depending on the setup.

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How is that "benefitting groups more"? Solo/duo setups would do exactly the same thing. Only for groups it would not even be required most of the time as long as they bring a BLM with them.

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Originally Posted by Arcon

How is that "benefitting groups more"? Solo/duo setups would do exactly the same thing. Only for groups it would not even be required most of the time as long as they bring a BLM with them.

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If your group is NIN + BLM/BRD you can't cover WHM unless the NIN is /WHM and you can't cover BLU.
If your group is BLU/NIN + BLM/BRD you can't cover WHM.
The odds of a reset giving a group (duo really) the spells they can cast are far greater than a solo player thus it's a greater potential benefit. I say potential because even if the dev's wasted their time implementing this I wouldn't bother getting an extra item because I have the friends available.

Also with the exception of a few +2 NMs a group needs only ever be a duo or trio.

My 2 cents on this subject: we should be able to buy KIs with cruor for any NM inside aby, of course that being said the higher the NM tier the respective KI would be more expensive and to do not make it so "easy" you would be able to buy 1 KI per earth day to avoid abuses.

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Originally Posted by Zagen

If your group is NIN + BLM/BRD you can't cover WHM unless the NIN is /WHM and you can't cover BLU.
If your group is BLU/NIN + BLM/BRD you can't cover WHM.
The odds of a reset giving a group (duo really) the spells they can cast are far greater than a solo player thus it's a greater potential benefit.

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A group's chance at a proc is already a lot higher, so the chance they need a reset in the first place is very low. Thus groups including a BLM/BRD already fare very well in that regard and won't need it. However, this could be invaluable to people who rely on solo/duo efforts for this.

In mathematical terms:
A group with a BLM/BRD has a 71% chance to get a proc. Resetting would increase that to a 92% chance.
A solo NIN has a 14% chance to get a proc. Resetting would increase that to a 27% chance.

While the group's chance at a proc increased by 30%, the soloers chance almost doubled. In long terms that means the group's average farming time for seals decreases by 23%, while the soloers farming time decreases by 50%.

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Originally Posted by Arcon

A group's chance at a proc is already a lot higher, so the chance they need a reset in the first place is very low. Thus groups including a BLM/BRD already fare very well in that regard and won't need it. However, this could be invaluable to people who rely on solo/duo efforts for this.

In mathematical terms:
A group with a BLM/BRD has a 71% chance to get a proc. Resetting would increase that to a 92% chance.
A solo NIN has a 14% chance to get a proc. Resetting would increase that to a 27% chance.

While the group's chance at a proc increased by 30%, the soloers chance almost doubled. In long terms that means the group's average farming time for seals decreases by 23%, while the soloers farming time decreases by 50%.

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I'm sorry I should have been more specific if a group or soloer is already using the item because the proc is something they don't have the group has better odds of getting it on 1 item's use.

Yes the NIN's odds nearly double because they have such a low chance but the NIN still only has a 3/21 or 5/21 (if /WHM for lightsday) after the rest where as the group still has 18/21 at worst.

A smart duo would of course go when they could do 21/21 but then again I wouldn't be entertaining the idea of the item's existence for solo or groups if I went with that logic.

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Originally Posted by Zagen

So as a solo player you'd keep resetting until you get a NIN proc? Sounds like a huge waste of time but at that point it would benefit groups more so than solo players because they would just reset until it isn't BLU or WHM depending on the setup.

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Depending on how they implement such an idea, it actually would benefit solo/low man groups.

To be honest it is a lot better suggestion than tell someone go pay for a second account, plus character content, plus game content, plus invest another 3 or more years time gearing and EXPing another character, et cetera just to do out dated content.

Even purchasable KI is a better solution.

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Originally Posted by Lyberty

My 2 cents on this subject: we should be able to buy KIs with cruor for any NM inside aby, of course that being said the higher the NM tier the respective KI would be more expensive and to do not make it so "easy" you would be able to buy 1 KI per earth day to avoid abuses.

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I would prefer limiting the purchase limit to once per game day, personally.

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Originally Posted by Trisscar

Depending on how they implement such an idea, it actually would benefit solo/low man groups.

To be honest it is a lot better suggestion than tell someone go pay for a second account, plus character content, plus game content, plus invest another 3 or more years time gearing and EXPing another character, et cetera just to do out dated content.

Even purchasable KI is a better solution.

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Playing with others is an even better solution. Considering you only need 2-3 good players to cover all procs in Abyssea (some depending on game day of course) I don't see the problem with how it already works.

The problem is, finding people to do it when everyone has their seals finished already because Abysseas content was fast for groups, leaving everyone new to it to solo it or shout for hours on end for people. I understand Abyssea is lowmanable enough, but really if you cant get anyone to help should you have to make a 2nd account just to do things? People point out its a MMO, meant to play with others, the problem is when others dont want to play with you, you get kinda left behind.

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Originally Posted by Trisscar

I would prefer limiting the purchase limit to once per game day, personally.

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Me too, but people would just complain about it being too "easy"... its hard to find a middle ground that makes everyone happy nowadays :(

I honestly don't care about people calling it 'too easy', they have zero legitimate arguments and prone to huge glaring logical fallacies to the point it gives me a migraine.

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Originally Posted by Lyberty

My 2 cents on this subject: we should be able to buy KIs with cruor for any NM inside aby, of course that being said the higher the NM tier the respective KI would be more expensive and to do not make it so "easy" you would be able to buy 1 KI per earth day to avoid abuses.

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Sadly SE would never do this as many seal nms also double as KI nms for empyrean weapon items.. and SE are unlikely to ever do anything to change the way in which emp weps are acquired (esp wont make it even easier to obtain)

They may do something if it affected only yellow or blue, but highly doubt red procs (as nice as this would be).

ITT: Abyssea procs are hard.

ITT: Fynlar thinks hard and annoying are interchangable terms.

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Originally Posted by Zagen

All I read is that you either:
A) Need to make friends as this is a MMO and one of the points of a MMO is playing with others.
or
B) Need to make new friends.

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You don't just go out and "make friends." It's a natural process. It just happens. While you can put yourself into situations where you are more likely to interact with people, you can't force it to happen. Not only that, but if you're going out to "make friends" just so you can get shit done then you're doing it wrong. You're not "making friends." You're just using people.

As far as people who say "level a different job to get what you need for this job," I have to disagree. If you level that other job, you'll never see your favorite job again. I got stuck on BRD for years and I ended up having a generally miserable experience.

For those who say it's a personal issue rather than a system one, I also disagree. The game and content aren't appealing to enough people to keep things moving along. That is absolutely an SE problem.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

ITT: Abyssea procs are hard.

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Only when you have no friends :(

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Originally Posted by Camiie

You don't just go out and "make friends." It's a natural process. It just happens. While you can put yourself into situations where you are more likely to interact with people, you can't force it to happen. Not only that, but if you're going out to "make friends" just so you can get shit done then you're doing it wrong. You're not "making friends." You're just using people.

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I've never had a problem making friends in the game. I've made friends EXPing, joining shouts groups, heck even coming across random people while I'm doing something on my own and we happen to be doing the same thing. I've even made friends by joining in shout fests in Jeuno though that's rare. Maybe I just happen to have a friendly personality though most of my friends would say I have a smart*** personality.

If you believe friends aren't using each other any differently than random people teaming up because of immediate mutual benefits you're wrong. The difference between a friend and a random person is that they know their "selfless help" will be repaid at some point by having someone to talk to, do stuff with, or by knowing you'll do the same down the line.

Sorry if I burst you friend bubble. You can test this yourself, ask a friend to do something, then something else and something else and something else, all while you do nothing in return for them. See how long before that friend isn't your friend anymore.

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Originally Posted by Zagen

I've never had a problem making friends in the game. I've made friends EXPing, joining shouts groups, heck even coming across random people while I'm doing something on my own and we happen to be doing the same thing. I've even made friends by joining in shout fests in Jeuno though that's rare. Maybe I just happen to have a friendly personality though most of my friends would say I have a smart*** personality.

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You're telling people to go out and make friends as if you can force the issue. Friends aren't made. They happen. You can make acquaintances though. Maybe that's what you mean, but you can't really rely on them.

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If you believe friends aren't using each other any differently than random people teaming up because of immediate mutual benefits you're wrong. The difference between a friend and a random person is that they know their "selfless help" will be repaid at some point by having someone to talk to, do stuff with, or by knowing you'll do the same down the line.

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We all have ulterior motives even if they're completely innocent and benign, but you want someone to "make friends" with a specific goal in mind. What happens when the goal is completed? You have a fake friendship built on a faulty foundation. It will almost certainly collapse, but I guess it's ok as long as someone gets their shiny. It's the same as when someone builds an LS with the pretense of getting everyone relics or emps then bails once their own is done.

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Sorry if I burst you friend bubble. You can test this yourself, ask a friend to do something, then something else and something else and something else, all while you do nothing in return for them. See how long before that friend isn't your friend anymore.

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You're talking to the wrong person. My "friend bubble" got burst a long time ago. And that scenario you're setting up? I would never do that to someone, because that's how I generally get treated.

I don't think this idea discourages group play at all. In fact, it opens up viable groups from "players with the jobs needs for procs" to "players who wish to participate". Unless you're looking to hog seals for multiple jobs, you have no reason NOT to bring proc-less players who want your unwanted seals. Why not bring an extra healer, DD, or support job to speed things up?

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Originally Posted by Camiie

You're telling people to go out and make friends as if you can force the issue. Friends aren't made. They happen. You can make acquaintances though. Maybe that's what you mean, but you can't really rely on them.

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Sorry I skipped a step. Do things with others, you'll make acquaintances, do things with acquaintances, soon some will make friends. It's a game intended to be played with others why not actually do that? I'm sorry it doesn't happen instantaneously but if people actually tried being social it would happen far faster than the development team gets things done.

Making friends means this and many other suggestions which are meant to help the solo player out need not be considered let alone implemented. Which means the dev team could be working on other things that we could enjoy as a whole community instead of just a small group of players.

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ITT: Fynlar thinks hard and annoying are interchangable terms.

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Abyssea procs are neither.

That's false, as evident by people being annoyed at them.

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That's false, as evident by people being annoyed at them.

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People will complain about anything; it doesn't make those things inherently annoying. In fact, if anything it usually makes said people annoying.

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Originally Posted by Zagen

It's a game intended to be played with others why not actually do that?

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I have friends, I have LS members, I have seals I still need to get, and I have still shouted for a hour for a body seal NM because it was seals no one else needed. I am not about to force my friends to come help me with procing a NM against their will because I want some seals for some job. I understand its a game meant to be played with others but when others don't want to do what you are doing, you have a problem, this exact same problem exists with Salvage, Assaults, and a few other bits of content that requires more than yourself.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

People will complain about anything; it doesn't make those things inherently annoying. In fact, if anything it usually makes said people annoying.

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Oh I see. Only things you find annoying are really annoying.

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Originally Posted by Zagen

Sorry I skipped a step. Do things with others, you'll make acquaintances, do things with acquaintances, soon some will make friends. It's a game intended to be played with others why not actually do that? I'm sorry it doesn't happen instantaneously but if people actually tried being social it would happen far faster than the development team gets things done.

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You're the one who seems to be implying one can just go out and make friends. Hey I'm going out to make friends! Be back in a bit!

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Making friends means this and many other suggestions which are meant to help the solo player out need not be considered let alone implemented. Which means the dev team could be working on other things that we could enjoy as a whole community instead of just a small group of players.

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Oh you mean like 99 empyreans, relics, and mythics? Legion? Neo-Nyzul? Yeah... they're working real hard on making something for everyone! All they do these days is spend time on content for a small group of players instead of working on things the whole community can enjoy.

The OP is living in and making suggestions in regards to the current state of the game. The devs and many of the posters here are apparently living on Fantasy Island. You guys live in a reality that simply doesn't exist anymore.

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Oh I see. Only things you find annoying are really annoying.

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Most people have gotten through Abyssea and gotten the things they wanted, in many cases with fewer people than a full party, without any problem. What's yours?

From a purely objective point of view, Abyssea procs are not difficult in any way. The amount of procs is extremely limited and can be covered by a small handful of jobs depending on what kind of proc it is you want. If you want an example of a proc system that's extensive to the point of absurdity and could use some easing up here and there (example: looking at you in particular, BLU procs) look no further than Voidwatch. I have no idea why anyone would think the proc system that's already "easy mode" as far as procs go needs to be made any easier.

This thread basically reads off to me as "waaaaah I'm having a hard time soloing higher level content in a MMORPG"

I think as many posters have stated in one way or another, there are a few type of social activities in this game:

a. Friends: you know them either in game activities, or outside the game, or slightly outside the game, meaning you often talk about real life issues other than the game and the niceties of saying hello and making conversation and giving real life advices and what not. This is the best type of social interaction, often they will help you accomplish things in the game with nothing in return other than seeing you advancing further or just enjoying your company.
b. LS mates: you know them via LS, chat via LS, do events together, but that is more or less the extend of your activities. Sometimes you do other non LS events when you share the same goal. This is good, often they are somewhat dependable.
c. People you meet randomly while doing something, either via shouts, or just happen to share similar interests or doing the same thing at the same place. This is your random chance encounter, they can either be good or somewhat unprepared. Often it is better to team up when you are doing the same thing, you can kill faster, do more procs and generally safer. The problem is many players are somewhat selfish and delusional. They refuse to team up for some reasons even when you end up better off in the long run. Granted bad experiences and meeting a bunch of a**h@#$ could ruin your good intention.

As player in this game you should have at least one of those three listed type of "friends/acquaintances/random strangers" connection. Unless you are dual triple quadruple boxing, in which case you probably can get away without engaging with any single person in the game for most of the content. It's not that it is so hard to make some sort of social connection in the game, it's just some people are to quick to make judgment or they confuse one of the three types listed above. Try to team up, the game is designed for this, and you are better off in the long run in most of cases. Or just play offline FF games.

As for OP, you should level useful jobs: blue mage, bard, white mage, black mage, ninja, thief, dancer, beast master, summoner, warrior or monk. You can pretty much have blue/ninja + blm/whm to do hand, head, leg, feet seals. You may need at least 3-4 people for body seals. That is ONE other person you should find for most of the seals, and a good 2-3 others for the harder body seals. Most people will GLADLY team up for body seals. Often there are TONS of people farming KI by killing some of these NMS, be USEFUL, level your blm and offer to proc to keep the seals, these empyrean group more often has no need of seals. You can also scour the NMs for hand seals that drops pop items for body seals, often you see pop items farmers who have no need for the seals at all, and you basically give them a second chance for the drop. Audumbla and Tablila are often farmed for this.

You can ask your LS mates to team up. As beast master/ninja, all you need is a black mage to help you proc, or just do it yourself with one type of proc available, and hope TH1 will give you at least 1 random seal. Beastmaster is good if your thief, ninja, or dancer are somewhat severely undergeared. You can do dominion pages for random seal every vanadiel day, not optimal but beats the waiting around for nothing. There are TONS of quests you can do as well for a chance of random seals. I know several people do it this way, it's a bit less action and more boring but it is doable. Just stating OMG I can't find anybody for the life of me to help me do anything is a bit pathetic, considering there are so many ways you can solo in abyssea.

Here is why Abyssea Proc cells would never happen and its rather simple:
If they did make the cells, it would be far more ridiculous in price then it would be to shout with a gil reward for a WAR or NIN to come out and proc your monster to get the KI. If you can't do it yourself, then level a job that can, and if you won't level a job that can, then pony up the gil necessary. And if you chose not to do any of those, STFU and wait for a shout.

All of that helps with seals how?... Oh wait, it doesn't.

Speaking from experience, its not the system its the playerbase. And those calling us lazy or whatever are the ones with mutliple empys, nni/+2/etc gear, all their atmas/wins/lvls and got most of it when aby was fresh and new and it was cake to find ppl to participate and help

Been back for months and still no ls, they disband within a week or two due to lack of ppl on or they have been together so long they are not taking ppl, esp those of us who do not have all our prime gear yet.

Shouting is doable, except for the fact that it is really nearly impossible to get a pt of even 3 together to hunt seals or +2 or empy items. Even VW groups are getting harder and harder to fill. Ppl get what they want/need and they dont look back and are very unwilling to help others who are in need, instead they opt to afk in pj until they so something interesting.

If you want an empy mostly you gold box farm, duo box the ki mobs or buy pop sets and either brew for drops or duo box without procs. Making gettin an empy extremely time consuming and very expensive, resulting in an inability to enjoy the rest of the game due to the empy/relic/mythic only requirement on absolutely everything. And to get your seals and +2 items or anything else, its nearly manditory to duo box or run bst.

Making friends in this game is not an easy task, just look at the responses to this thread and you will get an idea of how friendly the playerbase is, and those of us who are friendly and do want to help are hushed by the trolls.

I would like a ls that would work on things for ppl. Back before the aby-bomb we had a fantastic ls that would run dyna to build a single person a relic and after that person got their relic, they would continue to run dyna to get the next persons relic. We climbed nyzel isle multiple times to get just 1 person to floor 100. Salvage, einherjar, all the same. But after aby so many of those ppl left due to the game going into the crapper and the suddenly way overpowered playerbase.

What we need is to stop all this bs and start working together as a community. So you have 5 empys? Why not help someone get their first, its not like your doing anything other than afking in pj anyway.

I like the OP's suggestion. If nothing else it will let those of us forced to solo/duobox get at least 1 set of good gear.

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Originally Posted by Scuro

Here is why Abyssea Proc cells would never happen and its rather simple:
If they did make the cells, it would be far more ridiculous in price then it would be to shout with a gil reward for a WAR or NIN to come out and proc your monster to get the KI. If you can't do it yourself, then level a job that can, and if you won't level a job that can, then pony up the gil necessary. And if you chose not to do any of those, STFU and wait for a shout.

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Why would they be far more expensive than paying someone to do it for you? I didn't know you had inside information from SE about how much they would cost.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

Most people have gotten through Abyssea and gotten the things they wanted, in many cases with fewer people than a full party, without any problem. What's yours?

From a purely objective point of view, Abyssea procs are not difficult in any way. The amount of procs is extremely limited and can be covered by a small handful of jobs depending on what kind of proc it is you want. If you want an example of a proc system that's extensive to the point of absurdity and could use some easing up here and there (example: looking at you in particular, BLU procs) look no further than Voidwatch. I have no idea why anyone would think the proc system that's already "easy mode" as far as procs go needs to be made any easier.

This thread basically reads off to me as "waaaaah I'm having a hard time soloing higher level content in a MMORPG"

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What's my problem? Nothing at all. I have enough friends in the game to cover all procs for anything whenever we are all online. It is however annoying (not to mention boring) to always have to wait for one of them, and to always have to use the same party setup. Why exactly is it a bad thing if I could use a proc reset item so that it would be viable for my blm friend could sub whm instead of brd, and I could go thf/nin instead of blu/nin or dnc/nin? Oh no, someone's asking for more variety in old content! Quickly, someone stop him!

I never thought abyssea procs were anywhere close to fun, exciting or clever game mechanics. It encourages players to use very specific job combinations, instead of having fun with the jobs they'd prefer to be on. This is boring and annoying to me, and apparently a decent chunk of other players as well. Exactly what harm would it do to you if a proc reset item was implemented? You're accusing us of whining, but what you're doing yourself is whining about other people whining. That doesn't make you much better than the rest of us.