Is this bannable? I got reported for...

Spamming change targets and attack while watching tv, people thought I was botting, I come back to my screen(changed display output from PC to set top box) and I have trade requests and angry tells.

Ban-able? Who knows.

Stupid? Absolutely.

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Originally Posted by MaFi0s0

Spamming change targets(macro for controller) and attack while watching tv, people thought I was botting, I come back to my screen(changed display output from PC to set top box) and I have trade requests and angry tells.

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2.1 Cheating and Botting. You may not create or use any unauthorized cheats, bots, automation software, hacks, mods or any other unauthorized software or hardware designed to modify the Game and gameplay. In addition, you may not take advantage of game system bugs and exploits during gameplay.

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http://support.na.square-enix.com/ru...1&tag=users_en

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Using third party programs or tools in FINAL FANTASY XIV is strictly prohibited since they allow users to gain an unfair advantage over other players. The use of programs or tools within FINAL FANTASY XIV that allow certain continuous actions to be performed automatically are often referred to as absentee play, which is also prohibited in FINAL FANTASY XIV. Additionally, during the course of an absentee play investigation, players may be requested to respond to or comply with a GMs instruction. Failure to do so is consider a violation and may result in disciplinary action being taken against the account.

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Basically means that it is ban-able but there's really no way to prove you're doing it, or any tools to detect 3rd pt programs, unless you're caught red-handed by the GMs
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Yeah i find it really annoying too. You're clogging up the chat with your macros..

Well it is bannable, Will it happen... that remains to be seen, You intentionally countered the auto kicker for AFK, so thats exploiting a bug, while watching TV, so the reports were likely cuz they thought you were botting, problem is you cant prove you weren't. either way you were breaking the rules. so I doubt a ban, but it would be legitimate. Bad time to look like a bot while they are cracking down on RNG, Why didn't you just log out?

You should not be using macros that are not built in game. If you get banned it's your own fault.

If you want to watch tv while you play set it up so you can see both screens. It's not hard to do mindless activity in game and watch your favorite shows. This is what I do when I farm, craft and gather.

Some of you seem to mistakenly think SE has to 'prove' something in order to terminate your account.

Tidbit of advice: They don't.

This is called unattended play, which is against T.O.S. Educate yourself.

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Originally Posted by AsakuraVN

Basically means that it is ban-able but there's really no way to prove you're doing it, or any tools to detect 3rd pt programs, unless you're caught red-handed by the GMs
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Unless you come onto the forums and tell them you're doing it.

What hes doing isnt unattended play, it's blind play.

The Macro's hes using are ingame macro. They dont put anything in the chat log like the above person said.

This is just a target macro he has bound, for example, to L2+X followed by a Weaponskill Macro on L2 + 0

All he has to to is alternate these 2 key presses and he can target mobs and fight them without looking at his screen. This is no different that if he were looking at his screen and just ignoring anyone.

It isn't bannable, you havent used any third party programs, you were just ignorant of the players around you and that is no crime.

I Ignore tells all the time, I dont expect to get banned for it.

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Originally Posted by Kanzer

Some of you seem to mistakenly think SE has to 'prove' something in order to terminate your account.

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I didn't mean that SE has to prove anything, I meant the players who reported him can't prove to the GMs that he was botting. So to avoid Reporting abuse, the GMs still have to check manually before banning

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Originally Posted by Alavastre

Unless you come onto the forums and tell them you're doing it.

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Nope, you may get on to the GMs flag list, but until they caught you red-handed, they can't really based soly on your forum posts...

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Nothing bannable about using in-game macros. There's no rule that says you HAVE to be looking at your screen when you play.

Honestly, if people can't outpull you when you aren't even paying attention, they have no one to blame but themselves.

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Originally Posted by Junpei

What hes doing isnt unattended play, it's blind play.

The Macro's hes using are ingame macro. They dont put anything in the chat log like the above person said.

This is just a target macro he has bound, for example, to L2+X followed by a Weaponskill Macro on L2 + 0

All he has to to is alternate these 2 key presses and he can target mobs and fight them without looking at his screen. This is no different that if he were looking at his screen and just ignoring anyone.

It isn't bannable, you havent used any third party programs, you were just ignorant of the players around you and that is no crime.

I Ignore tells all the time, I dont expect to get banned for it.

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Definition, Unattended - not noticed or dealt with.

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you were just ignorant of the players around you and that is no crime.

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If unattended play is against TOS, he was doing it! I am not saying ban hammer him, but that is breaking the rules... so I guess you could say it is a crime lol.
you can spin words around it all you want, but in Law they use definitions not objective viewpoints. your statement just further clarified the meeting of the definition of unattended. by all means I would slap him on the wrist, but by no means was it not wrong

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Originally Posted by Noata

Definition, Unattended - not noticed or dealt with.

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Who's definition is that? Yours or SE's?

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Originally Posted by Noata

If unattended play is against TOS, he was doing it! I am not saying ban hammer him, but that is breaking the rules... so I guess you could say it is a crime lol.
you can spin words around it all you want, but in Law they use definitions not objective viewpoints. your statement just further clarified the meeting of the definition of unattended. by all means I would slap him on the wrist, but by no means was it not wrong

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This is FFXIV, not the real world. He was not engaging in unattended play. He was pushing the buttons on his controller, which made his character do things. If his character was doing stuff without him pushing any buttons, THAT'S unattended play.

The Definition of Unattended Play is setting up a macro that runs on its own so that you do not input with the software. Because he is using in game macros that require him to press the buttons on his controller or keyboard it is not Unattended, even if he is not watching the screen.

Unatended or not, if your playing the game without actually watching/playing the game don't be suprised when you get some kickback from it (Even if it comes in the form of a ban)

Unattended play is no longer covered anywhere in any of the user agreements. I was corrected on that a couple weeks ago, and then verified it myself. It used to be there, but SE removed it for some reason.

OP stated the use of a "controller macro", which sounds like a macro system built in to the controller. Such a system is indeed using automation software, which is against the TOS.

Regardless, if you aren't actively controlling your character while it continues to performing tasks that you initiated, you deserve to be suspended. You are making significant progress without putting any appreciable effort into it, which is the heart of cheating. The in-game macro system is limited for this very reason.

EDIT: If you are just not watching the screen, and not spamming chat, and not using anything except what the game provides.... it is not bannable. It is quite irresponsible, but not against any rules.

Really guys,s your going to make such a big deal out of being wrong... ok Lets bring up definitions and their locations.


Free Dictionary Definition: Unattended - Not being attended to, looked after, or watched

Collins English Dictionary: Unattended -
adjective

not looked after or cared for
unaccompanied or alone
not listened to

Translations for 'unattended'

British English: unattendedPronunciation for unattended When people or things are left unattended, they are not being watched or looked after.Never leave young children unattended near any pool or water tank.

Dictionary.com: unattended - (ˌʌnəˈtɛndɪd)

— adj
1. not looked after or cared for
2. unaccompanied or alone
3. not listened to

Cambridge Dictionaries online.
unattended
adjective [not gradable]

/ˌʌn·əˈten·dɪd/
Definition
› not being watched or taken care of:

You guys are wrong... There is the Definition of unattended, would you like me to get the definition of play? then you can combine them and see where he was breaking the rules.... honestly arguing the worlds definition of a word on a forum.

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Originally Posted by Noata

If unattended play is against TOS, he was doing it!

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Like I said, if its against TOS he was doing it

If a gm teleports you away to gm jail, and your macro keeps going even with no targets, and you dont respond to gm tells then you may be banned for it. Its questionable whether they are actually doing this yet, but I guarantee you that it is done in other games and will be done here too.
edit: and it doesnt matter what the armchair lawyers tell you - they dont need legal proof of guilt to ban anyone.

Not looking at your screen poses a big problem.

E.g. If a GM issues warnings or moved you to a different zone. If you keep doing the same actions with no response you're no different then a bot. So you may get banned.

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Originally Posted by Noata

You guys are wrong... There is the Definition of unattended, would you like me to get the definition of play? then you can combine them and see where he was breaking the rules.... honestly arguing the worlds definition of a word on a forum.

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I'm not arguing "the world's" definition of anything. I'm talking about SE's rules. All SE says is don't use third-party tools to cheat. The OP was not using third party tools. He was using the game's own macro system. He was not breaking any rules at all.

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Originally Posted by Pseudopsia

Not looking at your screen poses a big problem.

E.g. If a GM issues warnings or moved you to a different zone. If you keep doing the same actions with no response you're no different then a bot. So you may get banned.

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Is it against the rules to not respond to a tell from a GM? (honest question, I don't know if it is or not)

The GMs have other means of detecting botters than whether or not they respond to tells.

By macro I mean ingame macro because on the controller, targetting selects players as well, I have it so it only selects enemies.

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Originally Posted by Eekiki

Is it against the rules to not respond to a tell from a GM? (honest question, I don't know if it is or not)

The GMs have other means of detecting botters than whether or not they respond to tells.

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Thought you're reading TOS. It's in there:

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In addition to the License Limitations, there are other activities that you are forbidden from doing in connection with the Game ("Prohibited Activities"). In its discretion, Square Enix may use a variety of methods to deal with violations of this User Agreement and the Prohibited Activities, including, but not limited to, any of the following:

• Issuing a warning;
• Placing a character in a "virtual jail" for a specified period of time;

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You don't have to respond with a tell, but you better be able to stop what you're doing.

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Originally Posted by Eekiki

Who's definition is that? Yours or SE's?

This is FFXIV, not the real world. He was not engaging in unattended play. He was pushing the buttons on his controller, which made his character do things. If his character was doing stuff without him pushing any buttons, THAT'S unattended play.

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I was replying to you, I said in my post, that "If" it was against TOS then he was guilty, but I defined the definition because you basically said WHOSE defintion. and then even went on to say it was not unattended play, which whether ok or not, it was unattended play. my response was directly to you. your post was arguing unattended play, and that is what i started responding with. Hope that clarifies what I was doing... you shifted arguments

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Originally Posted by MaFi0s0

By macro I mean ingame macro because on the controller, targetting selects players as well, I have it so it only selects enemies.

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Basically your doing isn't wrong, but it's still risky to play the game without looking at the screen, in case the GMs need to check (tho the risk is pretty small as there're tons of bots freely teleporting around ingame right now).

So if you afraid of being checked by GMs, just put your TV in dual screen mode (if it has one) or get another screen, problem solved.
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I've seen the word unattended being argued back and forth here, and I'm confident that it refers to automation of action. The idea of being banned for not paying attention to what's happening on your screen or choose to ignore people's attention is beyond ludicrous.

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Originally Posted by AsakuraVN

Basically your doing isn't wrong, but it's still risky to play the game without looking at the screen, in case the GMs need to check (tho the risk is pretty small as there're tons of bots freely teleporting around ingame right now).

So if you afraid of being checked by GMs, just put your TV in dual screen mode (if it has one) or get another screen, problem solved.
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I do hope for all of us that GM's possess greater means of detecting your legitimacy beyond such things as tells.

If not paying attention to the game is bannable then all gatherers would probably end up being banned. My leveling to 50 on my miner consisted of occasional glances to the mini map for location and letting muscle memory and numpad 0 handle the rest while watching whatever TV series I had on hand.

Thinking about it more it seems alot like botting, setting a macro to auto kill mobs while you watch TV. I do believe that would be considered a bot in a sense. this is a makeshift auto killer and he is asking if letting the Macro run and it killing mobs while he watches TV is ok. I feel like we started arguing the wrong point and did not address if this was botting or not... I keep seeing this as made, an auto killer, left it to kill while i watched TV... I cant get banned for this can I? I am also concerned how he had multiple whispers and such... exactly how long was he running this auto killer.

Out of curiosity..

If you don't like playing the game, why do you continue?

I've always wondered about players that use bots, 3rd party Macros, blindplay, etc.. Why would you continue to play a game if you take every possible measure to not play it?



Is there some sort of late-game point at which the game becomes fun/worth playing?? If so, aren't there other games that would give you the same satisfaction without all the hassle leading up to it?

Is it for prestige? Few people care about anyone's characters but their own. So the best you'll get is a head-turn every once in a blue moon - and if you get banned, its all for nothing.

Is it for self-worth? A video game is a very sad place to pursue that.

Is it to satisfy some OCD type issue? I'd imagine that you'd choose something less boring or more productive to spend your compulsive impulses on -- something profitable IRL.


I play this game to have fun, I thought everyone did... I guess I can't understand why you'd bother playing if you didn't enjoy it.

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Originally Posted by Noata

Thinking about it more it seems alot like botting, setting a macro to auto kill mobs while you watch TV.

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you should probably go back and keep thinking, there is nothing "auto" about it, OP was manually hitting the macro.

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I do believe that would be considered a bot in a sense.

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in a this-is-not-a-bot sense, maybe.

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I feel like we started arguing the wrong point and did not address if this was botting or not...

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Much like there is usually no need to address whether the Sun is a star, there is no need to address whether hitting buttons with your hands is a bot or not.

Honestly... to come on here and say that and wonder if it's bannable... Seems people either don't understand, or don't want to understand, just what they agreed to with the T.O.S. For those of the current generation the tl;dr of it is: You don't own the character, you just play it. You don't own the game, you just use it. You have no rights, only privileges. Privileges that can be revoked at a moment's notice without any regard to your feelings on the matter. Should you be suspended or banned, the burden of proof is not on them but you. This is the same for every game everywhere.

The 20-30 pages of the T.O.S. just expands on the afore mentioned and gives venues on how you can satisfy the burden of proof should you ever have to. But, honestly, if you play any game as if it wasn't yours to begin with, then there shouldn't be any problems. Ever.

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Originally Posted by Menubrea

I do hope for all of us that GM's possess greater means of detecting your legitimacy beyond such things as tells.

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Actually in other MMOs, once GMs start their investigation, they can detect which programs are being used on your pc while running the game, & check the consistency of the delay between inputs to see if they're automated or manually used by players. But it's still hard to determine if it's 3rd pt botting or not. Some games like Aion even allow looping ingame macro & target enemies by name.

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Originally Posted by Zantetsuken

Snip...

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The same reason why you want to get to lv50 of a crafting class without having to manually craft every single material, but use quick synthesis instead.

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Originally Posted by Aenarion

you should probably go back and keep thinking, there is nothing "auto" about it, OP was manually hitting the macro.



in a this-is-not-a-bot sense, maybe.



Much like there is usually no need to address whether the Sun is a star, there is no need to address whether hitting buttons with your hands is a bot or not.

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Considering the OP directly asks if he could get banned for it, and that others thought he was a bot, I would say the consensus of is it botting or not would be the determination of ban or no ban... so I imagine its the most relevant part. as people do not get banned just for playing the game.... so if considering the sun a star for the purpose of arguing stars, I would say its pretty relevant... I personally think he should not get banned but told probably not to do that, as its not a players fault if you act like a bot and they report you for it

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Originally Posted by Noata

Considering the OP directly asks if he could get banned for it, and that others thought he was a bot

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only because the OP made it sound like he was using 3rd pty programs, and did not clarify that he was using in-game macros until later.

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Originally Posted by MaFi0s0

Spamming change targets(macro for controller) and attack while watching tv, people thought I was botting, I come back to my screen(changed display output from PC to set top box) and I have trade requests and angry tells.

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See, Lemme bring it to this page so you can read it. He wants to know if he can get banned, He had a macro on a controller and was watching TV, didnt see people Whisper him, and then they tested with a trade request. He was then reported for being a bot. the question is, Will I get Banned If a player has reported me as a bot.... He was doing activity like a bot, but it was an ingame macro he just was not "paying attention" to his screen which was on a different monitor output. We are not GM's so the best we can do is think and tell him can he get banned for this or not... and if the GM has no clue that he was hitting a macro... then yes he can.

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Originally Posted by Noata

We are not GM's so the best we can do is think and tell him can he get banned for this or not

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It's not complicated, if he.was using 3rd party program, yes; if not, then no.

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and if the GM has no clue that he was hitting a macro... then yes he can.

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If GMs can't figure something as basic as that out, whether OP gets banned would be the least of our worries.

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Originally Posted by AsakuraVN

The same reason why you want to get to lv50 of a crafting class without having to manually craft every single material, but use quick synthesis instead.

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Really? Quick Synth is insanely slow for leveling.

I only use it for getting rid of stuff that's loading up my inventory.

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Originally Posted by Aenarion

It's not complicated, if he.was using 3rd party program, yes; if not, then no.



If GMs can't figure something as basic as that out, whether OP gets banned would be the least of our worries.

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I understand your on some personal vendetta to Quote me and try to formulate some sort of response. but you just posted one of the most ignorant responses I have seen. If GM's could detect if it was you or a third party program hitting that macro we wouldn't have bots. I agree its not complicated It is very simple. Unless there is reason to believe that the player was not a bot while exhibiting all the symptoms of a bot.... then anyone would judge it a bot. GM's can likely look up statistics like, what you were doing, but not how it was input, A GM would not know my key binds or if a third party program was injecting input. This player seriously is in a spot where they could be banned. That is like telling someone who got framed for a crime, don't worry if you didn't do it, everything will be ok. that is not how the system works.

Here is another possible scenario. OP actually was botting, comes to the forum to try and deflect that fact because he got caught when he didn't think he would be. Not saying it's what actually happened, but a possibility as we only have his word he was only using macros and not botting.

If what you are doing can appear as botting, don't do it. Playing the game with the screen basically off? Yeah, i'd call that bad. You would also prompt them to change the way macros work, to prevent unattended play.

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Originally Posted by Noata

I understand your on some personal vendetta to Quote me and try to formulate some sort of response.

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It's not my fault you keep making terrible posts in the active threads.

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If GM's could detect if it was you or a third party program hitting that macro we wouldn't have bots.

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Yes, GMs have no tools to investigate things with :rolleyes: Devs/GMs don't actually have magic, it still takes a human to use said tools and time to properly investigate and ban bots. This may come as a surprise to you, but companies tend to want to avoid unnecessarily banning their customers.

Maybe the only MMOs you've played were filled with GMs with zero capabilities, but I highly doubt SE is one of them.

Hell, CCP is a much smaller company than SE, and the GMs in Eve can detect bots just fine - yes, even injections and scripts that you apparently think is undetectable.

And no, GM in Eve don't use convo as a tool to investigate bots, they'd spend all day talking to themselves and not get anything done.