Mages, TP, and 2.0

Will mages continue to needlessly gather tp in 2.0? I ask because the new version seems to require that you have your weapon out when casting, and this got me thinking that may be for some other reason than to stop us from recovering mp in battle. I would love to see tp reincorporated into the mage classes in some way. And if it isn't, will we still gather it in combat needlessly?

Acceptable responses include:

No
Yes
and: You will continue gathering tp for no reason in 2.0 and LIKE it!

Of course not, everyone gets a sprint ability that consumes TP . Mages can sprint their asses off now :D

(slight sarcasm)

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Of course not, everyone gets a sprint ability that consumes TP . Mages can sprint their asses off now :D

(slight sarcasm)

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Sprint! Of course! Its all coming together now. RUN FORREST! :p

there's been other threads on this, and I would love to have a use for TP.

If nothing else, at least the MP-giving WS should come back, or some other means of consuming the TP we inevitiably gain for some kind of purpose, even if it's just some non-offensive ability.

It was said that we will cast spells with our weapon in ARR, so maybe it will get reincorporated in some way.

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Originally Posted by Biggs

Will mages continue to needlessly gather tp in 2.0? I ask because the new version seems to require that you have your weapon out when casting, and this got me thinking that may be for some other reason than to stop us from recovering mp in battle. I would love to see tp reincorporated into the mage classes in some way. And if it isn't, will we still gather it in combat needlessly?

Acceptable responses include:

No
Yes
and: You will continue gathering tp for no reason in 2.0 and LIKE it!

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You wouldn't be gathering it at all... in or out of combat since TP starts at full in ARR... Though it would be nice to see it used in some way for mages other then just sprint...

The cat is interested =+.+=

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

there's been other threads on this

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I love this statement. Its a statement that says, "this issue has been asked before and gone unanswered, shame on you for not having read every post on the forum before posting." :p

Maybe we will use TP for Limit break too? haha :D ..but really you could ask the same about craft classes my weaver has more HP and MP than my BLM and that doesn't make sense xD

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Originally Posted by Biggs

I love this statement. Its a statement that says, "this issue has been asked before and gone unanswered, shame on you for not having read every post on the forum before posting." :p

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No it says "You could have used search function and posted in an existing thread instead of opening a new one cause of lazyness"

In ARR you recover MP with weapon out during combat

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Originally Posted by Biggs

I love this statement. Its a statement that says, "this issue has been asked before and gone unanswered, shame on you for not having read every post on the forum before posting." :p

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No, it says what moriandrio said. It also doesn't imply previous threads "went unanswered." others probably wouldn't know about it if nobody answered them.

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Originally Posted by moriandrio

No it says "You could have used search function and posted in an existing thread instead of opening a new one cause of lazyness"

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Search + Forums + Users = lol

Besides the search function sucks- having actually used it before..

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Originally Posted by Biggs

Will mages continue to needlessly gather tp in 2.0? I ask because the new version seems to require that you have your weapon out when casting, and this got me thinking that may be for some other reason than to stop us from recovering mp in battle. I would love to see tp reincorporated into the mage classes in some way. And if it isn't, will we still gather it in combat needlessly?

Acceptable responses include:

No
Yes
and: You will continue gathering tp for no reason in 2.0 and LIKE it!

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I'm not really a fan of having a third limitation to casting. They could implement weaponskills, like ffxi, that aren't really used in party play but can be useful solo. If it was for something like limits breaks it would be pointless because mages would always have 1k to when performing one.

Oh really? If you could just point me in the direction of the thread you read where a dev responded to this issue Alhan....

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Originally Posted by moriandrio

No it says "You could have used search function and posted in an existing thread instead of opening a new one cause of lazyness"

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I did actually, and there has been no dev response on this. Hence the purpose of the post on it. Care to talk about the op or did you just jump in here long enough to illuminate us all with your charming disposition?

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Originally Posted by Ryans

I'm not really a fan of having a third limitation to casting. They could implement weaponskills, like ffxi, that aren't really used in party play but can be useful solo. If it was for something like limits breaks it would be pointless because mages would always have 1k to when performing one.

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I would love to see them use it as a means of last resort. Say for instance boosting how much damage holy does or something. Certainly it would be foolish to have mages wanting to run up and start hitting fools with their weapon in a party, but having some ace in the whole skill to get you out of a jam would be sweet.

how about a spell (which costs MP) that gives TP to a party member?

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Originally Posted by Biggs

I did actually, and there has been no dev response on this. Hence the purpose of the post on it. Care to talk about the op or did you just jump in here long enough to illuminate us all with your charming disposition?

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Oh so you think if you just open enough new threads you will get dev answers....

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Originally Posted by Ryans

I'm not really a fan of having a third limitation to casting. They could implement weaponskills, like ffxi, that aren't really used in party play but can be useful solo. If it was for something like limits breaks it would be pointless because mages would always have 1k to when performing one.

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Why are weapon skills for mages so taboo to you? Weapon skills can and have been be magical in nature.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Why are weapon skills for mages so taboo to you? Weapon skills can and have been be magical in nature.

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Simple reason cause you need to melee for them, and as a mage you will always try to stay on range.

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Originally Posted by moriandrio

Simple reason cause you need to melee for them, and as a mage you will always try to stay on range.

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You do know you start will full TP in ARR right? So you do not need to fight at all to use your WS if they use TP... also TP will regen sort of like MP does and not though auto attacking...

The cat is bemused =-.-=

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Originally Posted by NadienKirisame

You do know you start will full TP in ARR right? So you do not need to fight at all to use your WS if they use TP... also TP will regen sort of like MP does and not though auto attacking...

The cat is bemused =-.-=

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Yeah, I'd agree with you Moriandrio if TP actually worked in 2.0 like it does in 1.0.

You dont even get TP for meleeing anymore. Mages using tp isnt so crazy now.

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Originally Posted by moriandrio

Simple reason cause you need to melee for them, and as a mage you will always try to stay on range.

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Except that's false. You don't need to melee for them. You *start with full TP* in ARR. You also hold your weapon while casting unlike the current version and in XI. Therefore, it's completely valid for there to be a use for TP, especially since you no longer gain TP for melee hits nor do you receive it for taking damage.

Even if TP wasn't changing in ARR, you don't need to melee to get TP in the current version. I build up tons of TP over time (a lot more than in XI) just doing my job as I normally would, simply because of the occasional hits I take (and enemy attacks give substantially more TP than they did in XI) and in rare cases, because the bard accidentally hit me with TP song. in some events I often end up with full TP for a good portion of a fight. Who are you to say I shouldn't be able to do anything with the resource the game gives me?

Also, not all "mage" jobs have to stay at range. Take Blue mage for instance. There is no hard and fast rule that says no mage can ever use weapons, nor is there a hard and fast rule that says all "mages" must always be far away. It is extremely stereotypical to say that all users of magic must be weak bodied cripples that can never swing a weapon.

You still need to go in melee range with a mage, and on alot boss fights this can and prolly will kill you very fast as mage, so its not really an option.

Talking about BLU makes no sense, BLU was a melee mage and we don't have on in FFXIV and it doesnt seems like we gonna get one soon

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Originally Posted by moriandrio

You still need to go in melee range with a mage, and on alot boss fights this can and prolly will kill you very fast as mage, so its not really an option.

Talking about BLU makes no sense, BLU was a melee mage and we don't have on in FFXIV and it doesnt seems like we gonna get one soon

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So instead of thinking about how it could work it is just flat out this will not work?? really now... no creative mind at all...

Also who says the WS has to be a melee attack? I am sure ARC/BRD has ranged WS... and nothing says a mage cannot have a ranged WS attack the steals MP from the target...

Instead of just pushing the idea out all together why not try to think of ways it could actually work...

The cat is bemused =-.-=

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Originally Posted by moriandrio

You still need to go in melee range with a mage, and on alot boss fights this can and prolly will kill you very fast as mage, so its not really an option.

Talking about BLU makes no sense, BLU was a melee mage and we don't have on in FFXIV and it doesnt seems like we gonna get one soon

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Blue mage is still a mage. And it breaks a lot of the traditional mage rules. Therefore, I have no problem with the "rules" being bent further. Flare, a popular AoE spell, requires the BLM to be close to the enemies he wishes to damage with it. Blizzara also requires this. Therefore, BLMs can not always always be at maximum range. Finally, weapon skills don't have to be melee. The original version of the game saw both THM and CNJ launching bolts of magic energy from their weapons at targets. I see nothing wrong with this and I was a bit saddened when it was taken out.

The weapon being used in the animation is just due to the fact that people always complained (and rightly so I think) that mages had cool weapons but they were always sheathed. I wouldn't think there's more to that so don't go too crazy with speculations :p Plus didn't we already have that discussion before? ._.;
Anyway, personally, while I wouldn't want mages to get any WS some abilities using TP to buff spells or etc. would be fine with me.

I don't mind not using my staff, I like having it on my back and casting with my bare hands.

In my opinion, I wouldn't want weaponskills as a black mage. I don't like getting close to mobs at all. Seeing melees get one/two shotted cause they are close, I am not in the mood of screwing over my overall damage to do that doesn't need to be done. Of course, if it will restore a good chunk of MP because of it, then the risk may be worth it.

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Originally Posted by Jinrya-Geki

I don't mind not using my staff, I like having it on my back and casting with my bare hands.

In my opinion, I wouldn't want weaponskills as a black mage. I don't like getting close to mobs at all. Seeing melees get one/two shotted cause they are close, I am not in the mood of screwing over my overall damage to do that doesn't need to be done. Of course, if it will restore a good chunk of MP because of it, then the risk may be worth it.

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I would actually like to see them do something new with tp for mages besides using it for weaponskills. Your totally right, mages (traditional ones anyway) shouldn't be in melee. Instead we could see abilities that trade tp for mp, use it to boost the next spell, use it as a one time source of mp, ect. I just don't want to play ARR as a mage looking at a full tp bar that does nothing for me.

i don't get the whole "you have to be close to ws as a mage" argument at all especially since at the start of the game we had both flashfreeze and levinbolt and they were both ws that were done at range so you didn't have to get close for either.

in fact flashfreeze is one of the skills i miss most from the original thm before yoshi destroyed the class.

Just to put it out there.

http://www.cine-collector.com/catalo...C1265moria.jpg

Mages in FFXIV are lazy. :P

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Just to put it out there.

http://www.cine-collector.com/catalo...C1265moria.jpg

Mages in FFXIV are lazy. :P

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My gladiator has stone and fire equipped at all times.

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Originally Posted by Jaimie

My gladiator has stone and fire equipped at all times.

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^
|_ This person knows how to roll. ^^

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

i don't get the whole "you have to be close to ws as a mage" argument at all especially since at the start of the game we had both flashfreeze and levinbolt and they were both ws that were done at range so you didn't have to get close for either.

in fact flashfreeze is one of the skills i miss most from the original thm before yoshi destroyed the class.

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A moment of silence for the lost arts of the Thaumaturge. Gone but not forgotten.
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And WS are not married to close range combat. If you have a weapon you should be able to use weapon skills, regardless of type.

This is a good example of a useful mage WS in theory:

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Myrkr

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Originally Posted by Biggs

The weapon being used in the animation is just due to the fact that people always complained (and rightly so I think) that mages had cool weapons but they were always sheathed. I wouldn't think there's more to that so don't go too crazy with speculations :p Plus didn't we already have that discussion before? ._.;
Anyway, personally, while I wouldn't want mages to get any WS some abilities using TP to buff spells or etc. would be fine with me.

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Would you mind showing me where in the Official Mage's Rulebook where it says mages can never use special abilities associated with their weapons? As I described earlier, there are magical weapon attacks- In fact, a majority of the weapon skills available to mage classes in XI were magical in nature. They could easily make these attacks ranged, since many of XIV's original DoM weapon attacks were ranged- even the basic weapon attack of the time was ranged and they never actually had to be in melee (and didn't actually bash enemies with the weapon like they do now). For example:

A ranged, Umbral damage attack on THM that lowers the target's magic defense for a short time. You (and other mages) then follow this with a spell combo to make the combo do additional damage. You could limit its use by having it take all TP so that is mainly used for its intended purpose, rather than for the damage directly.

In this case, the only real difference between this attack and most spells is that it is instant. It's a magic damage attack, and helps your magic nukes. I can't comprehend why people would have a problem with such an idea. They're still using magic, even though it uses their TP (which, in FFXIV, has long been more than just a physical-attack resource)

Bard even has a "spell" that costs both MP and TP- No reason other jobs couldn't have things like this too.

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This is a good example of a useful mage WS in theory:

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Myrkr

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Aye, I had the empyreaon staff on SMN and used it regularly- Mostly solo of course, but since I often used one of the atma that happened to have regain for avatar purposes, I would occasionally be able to use it during normal activities in abyssea.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Would you mind showing me where in the Official Mage's Rulebook where it says mages can never use special abilities associated with their weapons? As I described earlier, there are magical weapon attacks- In fact, a majority of the weapon skills available to mage classes in XI were magical in nature. They could easily make these attacks ranged, since many of XIV's original DoM weapon attacks were ranged- even the basic weapon attack of the time was ranged and they never actually had to be in melee (and didn't actually bash enemies with the weapon like they do now). For example:

A ranged, Umbral damage attack on THM that lowers the target's magic defense for a short time. You (and other mages) then follow this with a spell combo to make the combo do additional damage. You could limit its use by having it take all TP so that is mainly used for its intended purpose, rather than for the damage directly.

In this case, the only real difference between this attack and most spells is that it is instant. It's a magic damage attack, and helps your magic nukes. I can't comprehend why people would have a problem with such an idea. They're still using magic, even though it uses their TP (which, in FFXIV, has long been more than just a physical-attack resource)

Bard even has a "spell" that costs both MP and TP- No reason other jobs couldn't have things like this too.

Aye, I had the empyreaon staff on SMN and used it regularly- Mostly solo of course, but since I often used one of the atma that happened to have regain for avatar purposes, I would occasionally be able to use it during normal activities in abyssea.

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I thought I was cracking up when I read this post because I couldnt remember ever saying any of what you have me quoted for, then I realized it was a quote from Gokulo and not me, but it appears that I said it for some reason. I thought maybe I was sleep-responding again or something. Had me worried :o

On topic though, your totally right, there isn't anything that says ws's for mages shouldnt be magical in nature, it totally makes sense if they are. I wouldn't even mind seeing them do something other than offense, like boost magical acc for the party for a short time or other things that are more defensive in nature. Anything would be better than the system as it stands now. Hell, I am still waiting for the giant statis bubble move to show up from the opening cs (for Limsa) for 1.0.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Would you mind showing me where in the Official Mage's Rulebook where it says mages can never use special abilities associated with their weapons?

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I never said there are any rules :p Just stated what my personal preference on the topic is.

You have all nice ideas how you could pimp mages with several WSs and Abilitys which use TP, but you forget this would impact balance massively. If you just want to use your TP they can just add that some Skills like convert n eed TP to use.

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Originally Posted by moriandrio

You have all nice ideas how you could pimp mages with several WSs and Abilitys which use TP, but you forget this would impact balance massively. If you just want to use your TP they can just add that some Skills like convert n eed TP to use.

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convert using tp is completely different than what mages are asking for though. we will have tp in 2.0, but no skills to use the tp. i'd love to see some status effect skills like flashfreeze was an incap move that took legs out from under mobs like the great buffalo or defense/magic defense down.

Yeah they ask for alot of extra stuff for their TP, this won't work cause it will mess up balance, you would need to sacrifice their potency somewhere else or they would get OP. We got BLM and WHM in the game atm. BLM always was a range that used his magic and not his staff to damage foes, same goes for WHM. If you add now ranged WS, buff/debuff moves then these mages would get too strong and mess up balance.

OP was asking for something so he doesn't waste his TP, a possibility is that they use them for some of their skills like convert etc.