SE Why are you so bad at making content fun for healers?

Or why do you hate haling classes so much that you farm out their abilities to everybody else?

Before you reply realize, I'm aware of how big the dev team is. I'm also aware that FFXIV is the largest paid sub MMO in the world at the moment and they don't hire new devs and they farm alot of cash out to other projects, insted of actually making this game better. I respect the dev team and their work and I blame cooperate for most of the short falls of the game (but not all).

Improving the game only gets them more subs and makes us stay subbed longer but insted we are getting content released at longer intervals and there is less of it. Making many of us look at other games and trust me we, are not all looking at square games.

If only Square Enix was a triple A game publisher..............oh wait.

They are actively hiring. Dont expect anything until 8.0

Battle content this expansion has been good for healers to an extent, but the core problem of the jobs and how they play is still a problem.

I heard they want to reduce player friction So it became like that... I was on jp server for a while. So, l ran into some bizarre healer that just couldn't heal you. It was aurue vale. I pulled all the way to the first room. All healer has to do was to spam cure 2. But somehow certain people just couldn't do it. I was infuriated and kept pulling to the first room with one pull. After Few wipes, someone Left, then l Left Too. So, probably letting Tank become blue healer and making healer irrelevant is because se want to reduce friction When you get bizarre people like this.

Beyond my 8020591069 other problems with healers I’m so sick of field content (which is content I normally enjoy) taking rezz away from healers just to give it back to them as some boring package that does nothing else

Like DRS gave rezz restrictions then made healers use pure essence of the divine who’s only positive effect was making lost arise work 10% of the time in DRS.

Now forked removes rezz then gives it to chemist who is usually played by a healer. Chemist’s only useful ability (unless you want to fiendhunter cure 2 the DRK and empty your bank account) is the ability to raise…….the ability they just removed from healers


Like what is the fascination by giving healers nothing by default then taking away one of their only real niches only to give it back to them in the most boring package possible while tanks and DPS are playing around with lost blood rage and phantom oracle

In savages i find them to be quite fun and engaging. In casual content every job sucks, but healers are redundant. Sounds like and looks like from your publicly available data that you havent even attempted the savages so I'm not sure where you are coming from.

This reads "The game is too easy on easy mode"

Yeah, of course. Try playing challenging content and let me know what your opinion is then.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Altina_Orion

In savages i find them to be quite fun and engaging. In casual content every job sucks, but healers are redundant. Sounds like and looks like from your publicly available data that you havent even attempted the savages so I'm not sure where you are coming from.

This reads "The game is too easy on easy mode"

Yeah, of course. Try playing challenging content and let me know what your opinion is then.

---

Healing in Savage is only fun during prog, though. Or when things are going south. Otherwise it's "throw out OGCD heal when scheduled AoE shows up".

Isn’t it incredible we’ve reached a point where saying “in casual content every job sucks” and that’s actually a defense of awful healer design pushing people towards savage (where healers aren’t particularly fun either people have got to decouple their enjoyment of savage as a fight with their enjoyment of the job they play in savage because it’s not remotely the same thing) rather than a damming criticism of wider job design

And like I said healers aren’t even good in savage, you aren’t enjoying playing a healer, you are enjoying playing a hard fight. It isn’t the same thing

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Isn’t it incredible we’ve reached a point where saying “in casual content every job sucks” and that’s actually a defense of awful healer design pushing people towards savage (where healers aren’t particularly fun either people have got to decouple their enjoyment of savage as a fight with their enjoyment of the job they play in savage because it’s not remotely the same thing) rather than a damming criticism of wider job design

And like I said healers aren’t even good in savage, you aren’t enjoying playing a healer, you are enjoying playing a hard fight. It isn’t the same thing

---

I'm not sure this is 100% sure. I mean, even in normal dungeons you can basically just stand still and get hit with everything and still be fine. "Normal mode" content isn't normal mode, its moreso story mode. The devs continue to make normal mode content engaging at all. The reason they do this though is because they want a monkey to be able to finish MSQ. They design this game's normal content to be like an infinite runner game with no obstacles and it is rather absurd, but these issues arent exclusive to healer.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Altina_Orion

I'm not sure this is 100% sure. I mean, even in normal dungeons you can basically just stand still and get hit with everything and still be fine. "Normal mode" content isn't normal mode, its moreso story mode. The devs continue to make normal mode content engaging at all. The reason they do this though is because they want a monkey to be able to finish MSQ. They design this game's normal content to be like an infinite runner game with no obstacles and it is rather absurd, but these issues arent exclusive to healer.

---

Sure but this most negatively affects healers because healers don’t have anything to do when they aren’t needed and they are the only role who’s main mechanic can be seen as a downside when it’s not needed

When a tank is doing casual content they still have a full rotation, there is never a downside to them pressing their mitigation or mitigating another. When a DPS is doing casual content they still have their rotation, there is never a downside to them pressing their utility or fiddling with their optimisation points

When a healer is doing casual content they get broil spam and are actively disincentivised from pressing any heal button that interacts with the healing GCD

this comes back to my point about enjoying content vs enjoying the class you are playing the content on. Casual content is by and large boring but tanks and DPS remain broadly functional, healers don’t, in high end content tanks and DPS retain their broadly functional class design but also get the better encounters, healers meanwhile lean entirely on the better high end encounter design because their design is by and large not functional. This also links to why people are disappointed with phantom jobs; because phantom jobs don’t really make classes more broadly fun than they already were

Look at we go - Tell that to players who don’t dabble into savage: “Well your content isn’t supposed to be fun because it’s not high end. It’s supposed to be boring, a chore.”

That’s what it sounds like. Imagine playing a game to be bored.

Sarcasm aside, good amount of us had done that in the past. Clear tiers, logging perhaps, etc. It’s still boring. I’d even argue that sometimes normal mode are ‘more fun (subjective)’ than the high ends because they actually let you do funny stuffs like debuff cancellation with shields whereas savages actively discourages you from playing off the script just to reach the same end.

Maybe only M6S that tickles some of that dopamine in recent times. But just one floor amongst the sea of fast food junkies? Yeah that ain’t gonna cut it, much less when you realize our toolkits remains thoughtless even in that fight.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

Look at we go - Tell that to players who don’t dabble into savage: “Well your content isn’t supposed to be fun because it’s not high end. It’s supposed to be boring, a chore.”

That’s what it sounds like. Imagine playing a game to be bored.

Sarcasm aside, good amount of us had done that in the past. Clear tiers, logging perhaps, etc. It’s still boring. I’d even argue that sometimes normal mode are ‘more fun (subjective)’ than the high ends because they actually let you do funny stuffs like debuff cancellation with shields whereas savages actively discourages you from playing off the script just to reach the same end.

Maybe only M6S that tickles some of that dopamine in recent times. But just one floor amongst the sea of fast food junkies? Yeah that ain’t gonna cut it, much less when you realize our toolkits remains thoughtless even in that fight.

---

I'm saying if you aren't challenged, then challenge yourself. If not, what are you even doing?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Altina_Orion

I'm saying if you aren't challenged, then challenge yourself. If not, what are you even doing?

---

Because I want my job to be broadly functional in all content like every other role in the game. That’s the entire point, your role shouldn’t be a benighted mess exclusively being held up by a limited range of content where you aren’t actually enjoying the role you are enjoying the content

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Because I want my job to be broadly functional in all content like every other role in the game. That’s the entire point, your role shouldn’t be a benighted mess exclusively being held up by a limited range of content where you aren’t actually enjoying the role you are enjoying the content

---

No, you're enjoying the role IN the content. These things go hand and hand. The role doesnt exist without content. You're not a healer when you are doing solo things, you're a green dps. In content that requires healing, thats where it will shine.

Is it hard to understand that I want something like this:
https://i.postimg.cc/7687Mkz6/image.png

but NOT whatever garbage the following is:
https://i.gyazo.com/f0b57e552f1e5678...2a590ea532.png

Whether or not they're from high end or casual contents, the trend remains relatively in line. If your job/role sucks, then it sucks to play everywhere outside very niche situations.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Altina_Orion

No, you're enjoying the role IN the content. These things go hand and hand. The role doesnt exist without content. You're not a healer when you are doing solo things, you're a green dps. In content that requires healing, thats where it will shine.

---

“In the content that requires healing”

That’s the problem I’m a damn green DPS spamming broil in savage as well so the only part about savage healing that’s enjoyable is playing savage, not playing a healer in savage

Look at Reiners chart above, it’s a damn embarrassment

And I mean, that chart has IMO awfully little healing and awfully much damage spam in it, don't get me wrong.

Primarily I want TONS AND TONS MORE HEALING TO BE DONE. In fact, while I can find GCDs I'm not casting healing spells with I feel there's room for improvement. And we have massive healer kits, we'd have a lot of variety if we were to actually use them. There could be more, sure (more GCDs, less oGCDs/timers basically!) but it'd be a lot better if 75%-100% of our time were spent healing, not 10% or so, if even that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Altina_Orion

I'm not sure this is 100% sure. I mean, even in normal dungeons you can basically just stand still and get hit with everything and still be fine. "Normal mode" content isn't normal mode, its moreso story mode. The devs continue to make normal mode content engaging at all. The reason they do this though is because they want a monkey to be able to finish MSQ. They design this game's normal content to be like an infinite runner game with no obstacles and it is rather absurd, but these issues arent exclusive to healer.

---

The sad reality is that there is obstacles still, but they're on the encounter positioning side, on whether the player stands in the good or the bad. Those days it's less and less about healing and more and more about eating two consecutive hits or two intersecting mechanics at once (unless you're the tank then you're immune to death except death walls and holes).

Which means that you can't really carry a casual player struggling with said obstacles (and there is many more in Dawntrail compared to before) because as a healer it's mostly out of your hands. And when it comes to the tank, they're being carried by their immunity to most things.

There is a reason why the state of the role is like this, and it's not tied to the difficulty. It's tied to the design, even in savage.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Altina_Orion

No, you're enjoying the role IN the content. These things go hand and hand. The role doesnt exist without content. You're not a healer when you are doing solo things, you're a green dps. In content that requires healing, thats where it will shine.

---

You're four years late to this conversation, buddy. We've dealt with this argument before. Over and over.

Check the savage and ultimate parsers to get a glimpse of the problem healers have been experiencing.

Count the amount of collective casts of Broil/Glare/Dosis/Malefic in the worst parsers. Compare them to the amount of casts of healing spells.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by
Naychan;6715453

I'm also aware that FFXIV is the largest paid sub MMO in the world

---

Kek. Aint no way.
Sincerely,
The horde

Healers are literally designed as if they exist in an entirely different game to Final Fantasy XIV lol. It’s no wonder they feel so entirely out of place in so much content in that context.

Because no content can actually fix healers because their gameplay isn't changed. Healers just frankly need a rework and be redesigned as a dps that can heal.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chasingstars

Because no content can actually fix healers because their gameplay isn't changed. Healers just frankly need a rework and be redesigned as a dps that can heal.

---

Honestly yeah. Give an interesting simplified dps rotation and condense the healing toolkit. Healing feels like crap anyway since everything is either designed to give you a generous window to heal up after raidwide damage that brought you to 10% or just one shots you. Since theres no recovery healing only raising most of the toolkit just feels bad. Pressing two aoe heals between mechanics and pressing one condensed stronger heal are the exact same gameplay imo.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chasingstars

Because no content can actually fix healers because their gameplay isn't changed. Healers just frankly need a rework and be redesigned as a dps that can heal.

---

Interesting, I'd say the opposite. You can't fix healers on a class design level, you need the game around them to change. Fights need to actively desire active (GCD-based, spammed) healing for healers to feel relevant. Their design might also need some changes, but comparatively speaking this is the smaller (and minor) problem. The big thing is that the central tenant of their role ("heal") does not exist in the game, it's all just a sideshow. I get what you're saying, "Embrace this", but we have too many DPS already, adding 4 more intentionally-designed ones on top... would not really work well.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Carighan

Interesting, I'd say the opposite. You can't fix healers on a class design level, you need the game around them to change. Fights need to actively desire active (GCD-based, spammed) healing for healers to feel relevant. Their design might also need some changes, but comparatively speaking this is the smaller (and minor) problem. The big thing is that the central tenant of their role ("heal") does not exist in the game, it's all just a sideshow. I get what you're saying, "Embrace this", but we have too many DPS already, adding 4 more intentionally-designed ones on top... would not really work well.

---

The problem is you need something to engage you at all levels of content. Like one of the biggest complaints about the healer strike is not necessarily that we don't have enough healing but there's nothing to do. The reason that almost ever other mmo out on the market has a dps rotation on healers is so you can provide a baseline engagement level of all content which only goes up as the healing requirements change. In wow most tanks are largely self sufficient and need very little input from the healer but healers have a great time since we all have an engaging rotation for when we don't need to heal. The balance of maximizing damage and ensuring the team gets the required healing to clear the content is what makes wow healing so fun. In GW2 your healing is baked into your damage toolkit. Like my burn applicators and strikes on my scourge almost all apply barrier too. My rotation pulses out pad healing consistently. Heck my big defensive cooldowns apply burns or convert buffs to debuffs on the target. Also classes like guardian where your weapons do little for healing and you just have a strong rotation of damage and open your tomes to spend your pages(gauge) on either offensive, defensive, healing, or utility actions. The problem with healers is the mental downtime you have spamming one for 99% of all fights. Even ultimates don't change the formula and once you get the dance down its all just following a mit plan that really never changes.

I think I'm showing my age there, because I am used to MMORPG healers sitting down staring at their spell book when not actively healing (damn those were the days... >.>). As in, the UI element would need to actively fill your screen for your manaregen to kick in. You only had the chatbox to tell you what was going on.

Jokes aside, you are of course correct. I'd however ideally want this to be very much a sidegame, and/or only meant to "feed" into the healing element. The alternatives (and both are valid!) would be:

* The GW2-route: Everything is DPS-and. There are no healers. There's DPS that also cause some healing. There are no tanks. There's DPS who have some tools to keep the enemy's attention (mitigation isn't even a thing, everyone has that, since lacking dedicated tanks everyone might get punched at any point in time). There aren't pure DPS either, everyone brings some parts of utility. It's all "DPS, and..." .
* Everything is a hybrid (not the same as the previous). There are no pure roles, but they are cleanly delineated. Nobody can be a pure healer, because nobody is a pure XYZ. Difficult to achieve with classes such as the Black Mage in the game and with the erosion of the Debuffer role as a functional piece of design in modern MMOS, but doable. Say a Sage is a "Healer/DPS". A Red Mage is a "DPS/Healer". Maybe a Scholar becomes a "Healer/Tank", using a tank fairy pet to draw aggro and giving it commands while also healing both their pet and the group. A Paladin could be a "Tank/Healer", while a Dark Knight is a "Tank/Debuffer" and a Gunbreaker is a "Tank/Ranged", etc etc etc.

Both would be retoolings of the class space that feel more like something a FF17 as the next MMO in the serious would do. Though I'll be honest beyond superficial changes I feel any serious attempt at re-tooling healers as a role would similarly be of the scope that you'd want to do it in the next game, not this one. Still, could be fun. I had ideas in an older thread about pretty moderate retoolings for more offensive gameplay without requiring more buttons for the DPS gameplay, and that was fun to envision.

Honestly if you want to see what happen if you just tune up all the damage to a stratospheric degree, the most recent example is in Occult Crescent. Specifically speaking: the gold farming parties. The AA damage per mob are so high it will one shot any non-tanks while tanks themselves can only take 2-3 of them raw before warming the floor. If they're solo pulling for the party, sure... but anything beyond that, you're back to spamming 1 button - your GCD healings. Even then, what we end up doing instead is to either kite or to invuln against multiple of mobs at the same time, both of which completely eliminates the need for GCD healing half of the times. Worse, what we do instead is to sub in Cannon to join the bombarding instead of... full time healing... lol.

I don't think that's the kind of healing situations everybody would like to have at every given moment.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

I don't think that's the kind of healing situations everybody would like to have at every given moment.

---

Yeah usually when you say that actual GCD-based healing is needed, the assumption is that it's not about tanks dying in 3 hits, rather it's about the gravity of the HP lost. Say you have 200k HP, and each autoattack hits you for 10k every 1.5-2.0 seconds (you survive 30-40 seconds). Thing is, that's quite substantial if you have 0 recovery, it assumes you can use your mitigations to drag out combat long enough for you to kill things first. Likewise a healer would not need to be spamming 60k++ heals constantly, but if their heals only healed 25k for the biggest heal and that casts 3.5s, then using mitigation to reduce that 10k autoattack hitting you all of a sudden becomes very important. HP should not evaporate, rather it should drain steadily, and refilling it should not be a thing of a single oGCD, but of 4-5 GCDs invested and substantial amounts of mana.

The only content i found healers to be really fun is when i hold aggro. Mostly deep dungeon scoring runs, where you got to balance how many mobs you can handle to maximise your damage output. On my whm potd clear i felt really good about doing 'double shift' pull tactic (basicly you pull more mobs when old ones become stun resistant, basicly doubles your aoe capacity). Things you do on astro just to clear are ridiculous and fun.
Soloing regular dungeons would also be decent fun for me, if not for bosses taking ages to kill.

So both of those situations share the fact that there is a constant stream of high damage coming your way. I think that while it would be more fun for experienced healers if SE made dungeon mobs and bosses hit much harder and do more party damage, it would also make it really hard on less experienced healers.
One solution that comes to my mind is dungeons that are less sanitised - you decide if you want a 2 trash pack pull or if you wanna go balls to the wall Mt Gulg style, not an arbitrary wall that conveniently dissapears.
Raids are a bit harder to crack, especially that i have less experience in those

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chasingstars

Because no content can actually fix healers because their gameplay isn't changed. Healers just frankly need a rework and be redesigned as a dps that can heal.

---

Remove what's left of the battle system to fully embrace the DDR?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chasingstars

Because no content can actually fix healers because their gameplay isn't changed. Healers just frankly need a rework and be redesigned as a dps that can heal.

---

if they do that honestly I will be leaving the game without hesitation. I always have played healer and what I think healers are lacking isn't healing nor DPS. But!!!! buffs and debuff a other thing they could also do is rather stupid but demon/undead enemy could be damaged by healing skills to.


those unique interactions made some fight interesting while still making healing useful in more situations. I think this is what the healer gameplay is missing overall

I mean, not to sound like a broken record but look at PvP design. Even with just a few buttons and practically like 1 heal (with charges) I still see mountains more healers there than I do in PvE; people like actually want to play it in PvP and aren’t just being forced by party comp limitations. They have more interesting/valuable buffs, debuffs, utility and dps actions in those few buttons than we have in the entire PvE kit. Even barely registered flavour stuff like Toxicon I/II 5% damage taken makes it way more interesting than the PvE one. Plus, doesn’t Bard kinda show that small % boosts over a sustained period can still result in a large dps gain?

A gameplay system that actually supports jobs that do literally anything other than DPS is what the game really needs for job identity to even exist in the first place. Right now it’s ’which flavour of dps do you want to be’ lol. But naturally, that would require actual reworks and effort, and that’s not a reasonable thing to expect from Creative (Permanent) Bankruptcy Unit 3.

Also why in the ever loving f- do they keep giving every dps and tank powerful, easy access aoe heals when nobody needs healing in the first place . On what planet is stuff like Lux Solaris a worthwhile skill that serves a clear purpose? Because it sure as shit ain’t this one. Does ‘do someone else’s job for them’ count as a purpose? Obviously I’m just singling out that specific skill I’m well aware there are much more egregious examples

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nero-Voidstails

if they do that honestly I will be leaving the game without hesitation. I always have played healer and what I think healers are lacking isn't healing nor DPS. But!!!! buffs and debuff a other thing they could also do is rather stupid but demon/undead enemy could be damaged by healing skills to.


those unique interactions made some fight interesting while still making healing useful in more situations. I think this is what the healer gameplay is missing overall

---

But thats the issue, healers are mostly regulated to 1-buttom spam for their rotation. If healers had more dps buttons to push, it would expand what they are doing when healing isn't required. What your asking for, voidsent/undead, still leaves blind spots that doesn't fix healers as they are. Lets say an extreme fight lets you do that, you can use your healing as damage, then the remaining ones don't. I would wager that wouldn't feel satisfactory to healers where they only get one fight where they can become a dps that way. In addition, just from my own experience with blue mage (saintly beam) and cannoneer (silver cannon), undead enemies in general are infrequent enough unless you are specifically farming them.

More likely what would be changed is the lore of equivalent of learning how the amdapor people from the 5th era allowed for an inversion of healing magic where it can be used to harm. Such as the mechanics seen by the boss Kuribu from the lost city of amdapor. Maybe a temporary buff for X seconds, maybe a stance, maybe X stacks with each healing spell consuming 1 stack. But regardless of which style of mechanical, that only really fixes white mage as amdapor was all about golem creation and white mages.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chasingstars

.
More likely what would be changed is the lore of equivalent of learning how the amdapor people from the 5th era allowed for an inversion of healing magic where it can be used to harm.

---

The children yearn for cleric stance

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Supersnow845

The children yearn for cleric stance

---

lol, maybe that will be an 8.0 thing.

Quote:

---

Coming in 8.0, Amdapor Stance. While active, you can't heal players, but your healing spells now deal damage to enemies equally to their potency. If you want to heal again, just switch your stance off.

An exciting and brand new ways for your teammates to call healers selfish while they themselves stand in the fire.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Altina_Orion

In savages i find them to be quite fun and engaging. In casual content every job sucks, but healers are redundant. Sounds like and looks like from your publicly available data that you havent even attempted the savages so I'm not sure where you are coming from.

This reads "The game is too easy on easy mode"

Yeah, of course. Try playing challenging content and let me know what your opinion is then.

---

Ah shhht, here we go again!

Non savage/ultimate raiders: The healer role is boring

White Knights: That's because you play baby mode, casual is not supposed to be fun, go play Savage/Ultimate if you want to have fun playing healers!

Savage/Ultimate raiders: No man, the role is only fun in the first weeks of prog only, then it gets boring.

White Knights: That's because you are a tryhard, go touch grass. If they make the role harder the casuals would not be able to play!

Same old, same old, wake me up when they give us back Nocturnal sect AST.

Now, if you would excuse me, Broil, Broil, Broil, Broil, Broil, Broil, Broil,Broil, Broil, Broil, Broil, Broil [...]

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nero-Voidstails

if they do that honestly I will be leaving the game without hesitation. I always have played healer and what I think healers are lacking isn't healing nor DPS. But!!!! buffs and debuff a other thing they could also do is rather stupid but demon/undead enemy could be damaged by healing skills to.


those unique interactions made some fight interesting while still making healing useful in more situations. I think this is what the healer gameplay is missing overall

---

It doesn't need to be all or nothing. We have 4 healers.

We could leave WHM as is. Since it's unlocked at lvl 1, it can be the permanent easy, no thoughts, just Glare healer.

SCH could be the affliction/DoT healer, with the only heals cast through the medium of their fairy while the SCH themselves focus on potent shields and spreading DoTs.

AST could be given back the 2 stances and be the Jack of all trades,master of none, but with the cards giving usefull buffs like haste, sprint, mana regen, etc. The stance dancing could be reminicent of the old Cleric stance, but instead of DPS or Heal, you choose which of the 2 sects better fit the current encounter. I.E is it better to stay in the safe heal mode or should I change and shield? Is there enough time to change in and out or is the incoming damage too fast so there won't be no time.

And SGE, just give them a full on 5 DPS rotations 3 for single target 2 for AOE. Each spell and rotation giving substantial passive heals. 1 single target and 1 AOE rotation would be more insta-cast to help in high healing situations, but with the caveat that it would be lower in DPS.

This are just broad ideas, but you get the jist. They don't need to go all the way in one direction or the other with all healers, but we can individualise them. Carving for each a different niche that keeps the gameplay entertaining and creates a loyal fanbase. Bottom line, if I can level up all healers one after the other and I don't need to make any changes in the way I approach the content, then it ends up feeling like I am leveling the same job 4 times.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Connor

I mean, not to sound like a broken record but look at PvP design. Even with just a few buttons and practically like 1 heal (with charges) I still see mountains more healers there than I do in PvE; people like actually want to play it in PvP and aren’t just being forced by party comp limitations. They have more interesting/valuable buffs, debuffs, utility and dps actions in those few buttons than we have in the entire PvE kit. Even barely registered flavour stuff like Toxicon I/II 5% damage taken makes it way more interesting than the PvE one. Plus, doesn’t Bard kinda show that small % boosts over a sustained period can still result in a large dps gain?

A gameplay system that actually supports jobs that do literally anything other than DPS is what the game really needs for job identity to even exist in the first place. Right now it’s ’which flavour of dps do you want to be’ lol. But naturally, that would require actual reworks and effort, and that’s not a reasonable thing to expect from Creative (Permanent) Bankruptcy Unit 3.

Also why in the ever loving f- do they keep giving every dps and tank powerful, easy access aoe heals when nobody needs healing in the first place . On what planet is stuff like Lux Solaris a worthwhile skill that serves a clear purpose? Because it sure as shit ain’t this one. Does ‘do someone else’s job for them’ count as a purpose? Obviously I’m just singling out that specific skill I’m well aware there are much more egregious examples

---

It's definitely true that in a model where everything is not about battling but just dancing around, with the occasional heal here and there to pretend that healers are still healing, we're never going to get respectable healer jobs.